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Hi Joseph,

Thanks for the envy.  The frustrating thing for me is that the record which identifies my ancestor as  does not allow me to search much further.  As you know indigenous people needed permission from a european to legally use a surname.  I found this information in film #1156614, Bautismos de Senecú in the Juarez Cathedral Archives.  I quickly looked into my copies of the microfilms and found two individuals, 4 Oct. 1793 and 11 Nov. 1793, described in the body of the text as  and  respectively.  Also there's another entry describing a family as .  Senecú was a very diverse pueblo.  Most of the entries in this film simply use the word  but there are other designations including .  I may buy the whole film some day.  It seems that dozens of people in Senecú are related to my ancestors.  The same film also includes entries from the mission at San Lorenzo del Real.  Both communities were about 9

Hi Kitty Cortez

ANA has same information of Pedro Sandoval and Juana
Cortez.

1. Her Cortez Line: YGNACIO CORTES Y MARIA TERESA DE
AVILA
 2. Ygnacio Rafael Cortes m. Petronila Magallanas, 
3.Matias Cortes m. Maria Reducindo Arellano b. 05 MAR
1802, 4. Antonio Cortes spouse Decideria Sandoval
{parents Felix Sandoval and Francisca Sandoval}, 5.
Casimira De Jesus Cortes b. 09 MAR 1846  m. Trinidad
Cortes date: 20 JUN 1866 {his parents were #4 above.}
>From Trinidad and Casimira: Epifania Cortes Cortes 
m.1911 had son Jose Refugio Arellano 19 MAR 1912 who
married Teresa Luna Lamas.

The luna Line; Bonifacio b 1877 spouse Romalda Lamas:
Cruz de Luna b. 19 JUL 1840 m. 23 APR 1863 to Pilar
Sandoval b. 11 OCT 1839{parents: Jose Filomeno
Sandoval and spouse Ana Huizar}: Yldefonso de Luna and
his Estefana Gonzales: Victor de Luna 06 MAR 1776:
etc, etc....to Bartolome De Luna 1620 his spouse
Lorenza De Haro b. 17 OCT 1630

jose munoz

--- Kitty Cortez  wrote:

> Jose Munoz,  
>

David P. Delgado wrote:

I have two Chiricahua grandmothers and a Piro ggggGrandfather.

The identity of the tribes. . .you are so so so blessed in your finding
of these treasured pieces of information. I think I'd trade 6 months
worth of research time to find information like that. How did you find
that info? Was it written right in the record? My records just use the
generic Yndio. I also have roots in El Paso and I've seen some tribes
mentioned by name in the records but not in mine.

thanks for sharing and if you think I'm thinking of you enviously. . .
.well yes I am. I'm happy for you, but yes I want to be happy for me too!

joseph

Hello and Welcome Jose,

I know exactly how you feel.  I too was born and
raised in the US and have found that while I am here
in the US many people ask me where I am from and I say
I am from the US.  They do not accept that response,
when I say that I am Mexican they say, "OH, Yes. I see
it in you."
Now when I am in Mexico I am confronted with the same
from Mexican citizens.  They ask me where I am from
and do not accept my response that I am from
Zacatecas.  They tell me that I speak with an accent
and that I am not from Mexico.  I tell them that I was
born in the US and they say, "Si, claro, eres
Chicana."
I guess I can say like La India Maria, NO soy ni de
aqui ni de alla. Then i like to quote Selena
Quintanilla's father, Abraham, when he told her that
"When we are in the US we (Mexican-Americans) have to
be more American than the Americans to be accepted and
when we are in Mexico, we need to be more Mexican than
the Mexicans."

I don't know where I was going with that.
I do want

>> "Mexican
>>genealogy is like a
>>big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're
>>gonna get".  You may
>>pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans,
>>coconut, sugar and
>>raisins.....
>>
Raisin Tamales. . .I thought my mom was the only one that made these.

Boy could I eat a dozen by myself right now (but not all Raisin). I
guess I'd have to say that Pork with lots of "gordo" on the meat are my
favorite. but I can't eat Tamales that have been cooked, cooled, frozen
and warmed up [well I guess I could]. I have to have mine fresh cooked.
Boy are they good.

I'd say that Tamales are my favorite food, then again I think I'd rather
have a big bowl of Menudo with lots of chopped onion, some oregano,
cilantro, and lemon juice and a tall pile of flour
tortillas (fresh made).

Can the next person flying to North

"Mexican

genealogy is like a
big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're
gonna get". You may
pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans,
coconut, sugar and
raisins.....

Raisin Tamales. . .I thought my mom was the only one that made these.

Boy could I eat a dozen by myself right now (but not all Raisin). I
guess I'd have to say that Pork with lots of "gordo" on the meat are my
favorite. but I can't eat Tamales that have been cooked, cooled, frozen
and warmed up [well I guess I could]. I have to have mine fresh cooked.
Boy are they good.

I'd say that Tamales are my favorite food, then again I think I'd rather
have a big bowl of Menudo with lots of chopped onion, some oregano,
cilantro, and lemon juice and a tall pile of flour tortillas (fresh made).

Can the next person flying to North Carolina bring me some tamales?

Solito aqui en Carolina del Norte,

joseph

ps: my mom's mom was from Jalisco. That is how this discussion of
Tamales fits in and stays on

This is my dead end with the Avila/Sandoval branch of our family.
HUSBAND: 	 Miguel Avila 	     WIFE: 	 Carmen Sandoval
	: 		 CHILDREN
	1 	| 	Name: 	  Felix De Avila
	 	bir: 	 1804
		| mar: 	 28 Feb. 1824 		Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas, MEXICO
	 	to: 	   Fabiana Salamanca
		|	Father:       Miguel Avila
    Mother :   	Carmen Sandoval
2 	| 	Name: 	Maria Eufracia  Avila Sandobal
F | 	chrr: 	 20 Mar 1782		Villa Del Refugio,  Zacatecas, MEXICO
3			Name:	Maria Josefa Fermina Avila Sandoval

F chrr 17 Jul 1790 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas

4			Name	Maria Margarita Avila Sandobal

F chrr 28 oct. 1797 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas

5			Name	Jose Casildo Avila Sandobal

M chrr 11 Apr 1803 Villa Del
Refugio, Zacatecas

6	Name:	Maria Luiza Avila Sandobal
F	chrr:	01 Sept 1805                                      Tayahua, Zacatecas

_______________________________________________

  

-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@...om
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of aajay1073
Sent:
Friday, June 24, 2005 10:51 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Mojarro/Estrada
Families

Peggy,

I took at look at
familysearch.org site and found some information
for you.

Here is
the Christening extract for Maria de las Nieves Mojarro:

Maria de Las
Nieves
  Sex:
F

Event(s):
Christening: 16 Aug 1813  Place: Tlaltenango de
Sanchez Roman,
Zacatecas, Mexico

Parents:
  Father:
Silverio MOJARRO
  Mother: Juliana
ESTRADA

Grandparents:
  Father's Father: Juan MOJARRO
 
Father's Mother: Maria Dolores GONZALES
  Mother's Father: Jose
ESTRADA
  Mother's Mother: Juana Maria

Source
Information:
  Batch Number: C607124
  Source Dates: 1809 -
1818
  Film or Fiche Number: 443811
 

Peggy,

I took at look at familysearch.org site and found some information 
for you.

Here is the Christening extract for Maria de las Nieves Mojarro: 

Maria de Las Nieves 
  Sex: F

Event(s):
 Christening: 16 Aug 1813  Place: Tlaltenango de Sanchez Roman, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

Parents:
  Father: Silverio MOJARRO
  Mother: Juliana ESTRADA

Grandparents:
  Father's Father: Juan MOJARRO
  Father's Mother: Maria Dolores GONZALES
  Mother's Father: Jose ESTRADA
  Mother's Mother: Juana Maria

Source Information:
  Batch Number: C607124
  Source Dates: 1809 - 1818
  Film or Fiche Number: 443811
  Collection Details: Catolica

Here are some more Mojarro Estrada children, ie siblings to Maria 
Nieves:

+Jose Paulin MOJARRO NUNES
Gender: M Birth/Christening: 22 Jun 1817 Tlaltenango de Sanchez 
Roman, Zacatecas, Mexico
 
+MARIA CLEMENCIA MOJARRO ESTRADA
Gender: Female Christening: 23 NOV 1819 Tlaltenango De Sanchez Roman, 
Zacatecas, Mexico

+JUAN JOSE MOJARRO ESTRADA
Gender

-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@...om
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Kitty
Cortez
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:49 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Cortes and Sandoval,
Tlaltenango, Zac

Jose Munoz, 

check out the files section for Rich and Kitty Cortez
under SANDOVAL, Francisco.    We also have Cortes and Sandoval in
the Tlaltenango area.   Do we have a connection with your
wife?

 

2. Pedro SANDOVAL  (Francisco de).

Pedro
married²  (1) Juana
CORTES  daughter of Juan
CORTES and Maria

Good information.

If you have ever read a list of the first settlers
that the Spanish sent, you'll see a cross section of
many Europeans, north Africans, and some Asians
(mostly Filipinos), that evenly mixed together and
with the local inhabitants (Indians).

We are a composite of many peoples.

Alberto.

--- Victor Villarreal  wrote:

> I join you, Alicia, in welcoming Joseph's "tocayo"
> José.
> 
> I don't know if you've heard this one, which I
> learned thru a 
> friend.  Paraphrasing Forrest Gump's memorable
> quote: "life is like a 
> box of chocolates...", our new quote is "Mexican
> genealogy is like a 
> big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're
> gonna get".  You may 
> pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans,
> coconut, sugar and 
> raisins.....
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo
>  wrote:
> > So well put Jose Munoz and welcome to this group.
> >  
> > I believe that anyone who is searching for their

2. Pedro SANDOVAL  (Francisco de).

Pedro
married²  (1) Juana
CORTES  daughter of Juan CORTES
and Maria PONSE on 3 Jun 1709 in Tlaltenango, Zacatecas.

Pedro Sandoval
and Juana Cortes have a daughter Ysabel Gregoria SANDOVAL Cortes b.
15Dec1715doc, married 10 Nov 1736 doc to Antonio de Vargas CASTANEDA.  We
follow Ysabel's brother Joseph Geronimo SANDOVAL's line.  He was born 5 Jun
1626doc, married 27 Dec 1770doc to Teodora Rosalia GONZALES Mendes.  Joseph
Geronimo Sandoval's first wife was Juana Maria
Mojarra.

We also have Luna
from Tlaltenango, Zac, but I don't find the Luna connection with our
Cortes/Sandoval line. 

Are we
cousins?

Rich and Kitty
Cortez

Rocklin,
CA

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I join you, Alicia, in welcoming Joseph's "tocayo" José.

I don't know if you've heard this one, which I learned thru a 
friend.  Paraphrasing Forrest Gump's memorable quote: "life is like a 
box of chocolates...", our new quote is "Mexican genealogy is like a 
big bowl of tamales, you never know what you're gonna get".  You may 
pull out a pork tamale, or beef, or cheese, beans, coconut, sugar and 
raisins.....

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
> So well put Jose Munoz and welcome to this group.
>  
> I believe that anyone who is searching for their roots in Mexico 
has to be open minded. One can't believe that we're 100% this or 100% 
that. Just by virtue of the fact that we have or are descendants from 
Mexico a land that was invaded by Europeans less than 5 centuries 
ago. A land that was populated by many proud Indian tribes with such 
rich cultures, languages and history. A land that because of it's 
riches was invaded, pilfered

I'm new to this group and read many of the groups
messages.. In my family lines there were hijo and
hijas naturales along with hijo/hijas legitimos. For
example 3 naturals out of family 12. I have a copy of
the Church Marriage Record.... so why a natural
baptism for 3 of them. I have a gggrandfather baptized
as a Don? Why at birth is someone named a don? Heir
apparent? Laborers, Sirvientes, miners.

I have a family line who think they are French. Why?
Because of Grandma's Green eyes! The truth of the
matters is they can not accept the fact they are
Indian decent mixed with espanoles. 

I'm Mexican, born and raised in the U.S., and I'm
proud to be Mexican. My 4th greatgrandfather was
espanol. His brothers and sisters married
espanoles/las. But Ysidro Munoz married an Yndia. My
3th Great, Roque Munoz 1760, a mestizo was at times
recorded on Bautismo records as espanol, coyote, and
lobo? Why such a thing? They were from Rancho de
Banon, Zac., 2nd great Francisco Munoz 1786 a mestizo,
from