One of our brick walls is Manuel de Lizalde. He is in my tree on Ancestry at https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/27355561/person/2049287080/facts The surname has many variant spellings: Lisalde, Lisarde, Lizarde, Elizalde (which is the actual original name in Basque) - with and without the "de".
The earliest record for him is his 19 Feb 1697 marriage at Cuquio, Jalisco, with Maria de Robalcava. It shows his mother are Cathalina de Carbaxal but does not show his father. The m,arriage record is at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18455-52689-9
While his records are at the church in Cuquio, they actually lived south of Yahualica at los Ranchos de Apozol. So, Cuquio was not where they actually lived and is well south of where they lived.
I went page by page through all the Cuquio baptisms from about 1680 back to about 1660, and he was not among those baptisms.
I am working my way back through the Nochistlan baptisms now but have not yet found him, although there is a good way yet to go.
Does anyone have solid records for him before the 1697 marriage? Is there any record that names his father?
I can’t help you the Lizalde line, but there is something that seems off when you look at the marriages of their daughter Catarina.
Is listing Catarine de Lizarde as padres no conocidos in her second marriage an intentional or unintentional error?
Is there a dispensa in the second marriage between Catarina de Lizarde and Jose de Carbajal?
23 Jan 1718
Catarina de Lizarde hija legitima de Manuel de Lizarde y de Maria de Ruvalcaba.
Blas Riuz Nunez hijo legitimo de Diego Ruiz Nunez y de Ana Gonzalez.
13 Feb 1736
Catarina de Lizarde hija de padres no conocidos viuda de Blas Ruiz.
Jose de Carbajal hijo de padres no conocidos.
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Don,
Thanks for commenting on the Lizarde/Lizalde family, and the marriage descrepancies.
I have not come across dispensas for either marriage that Catarina de Lizarde/Lizalde was involved with. I believe the 1736 marriage with Jose de Carabajal stated "diligencias" was necessary, but this could be marriage information, and not a dispensa. Regardless, I have not found dispensas or marriage information records for Catarina. With her 2nd marriage to Joseph de Carabajal, as a widow, parentage was not normally required to be stated. Perhaps listing her parentage was more of a clerical error, then an actual acknowlegment of lack of known parentage.
Here are a few possible reasons for one marriage being "more complete" then the other:
a. Often only one person, frequently the groom, provided the information for the marriage. If he did not know the names of his spouse’s parents, he may have stated they were unknown rather than admitting he did not know.
b. If the marriage was a second marriage for
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Wesley,
I have the same brick wall with regard to Manuel Lizalde, and also have found nothing naming his father. The Manuel Lizalde family ties back to my Zermeno family, hence my interest.
A Juan Lopez de Lizalde married Leonor Becerra y Sanchez de Mendoza on 25 Jan 1585 in Lagos de Moreno.
This family branch appears to be the same noted in a 1791 land record which discusses an even older 26 August 1602 land record in an area close to present day "Las Animas" (Current day Yahaulica jurisdiction).
This Juan Lopez de Lizalde was noted as owning caballerias in the area, and was noted as a Calvary soldier. It is highly likely to be the same Juan Lopez de Lizalde that married in 1585. Either way, the land record places the Lizalde family in Yahaulica very early on, and presents a good likelihood Manuel Lizalde descends in some manner through this family.
Link: 1791 Land Record Link
Lee
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Hi Lee,
I'm unfamiliar with Manuel, but our family is descended from this same Juan Lópes de Lizalde and his wife, Leonor Becerra y Sánchez de Mendoza. Are there any credible sources that prove Juan's parentage?
So far, nothing I've found is provable, but I'm a beginner to colonial era genealogy.
Best,
Travis
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For Miguel Lopez de Lizalde and wife Leonor Aberruza, little has been uncovered in typical online genealogy records that are available for searching/viewing via FamilySearch, Ancestry, ..etc.
Some older records (pre 1600) are only available in person at major historical/genealogical libraries, institutions, private collections (manuscripts). Fortunately for those of us researching the Lopez de Elizalde families, the following works by some reputable genealogists/historians provide sufficient information to ascertain the lineage of the Lopez de Lizalde family who first appeared in the Lagos de Moreno (Jalisco), and Aguascalientes areas by the 1580's.
Three credible sources come to mind: Mariano Gonzalez-Leal, Jaime Holcombe, and Jose Luis Vasquez y Rodriguez de Frias.
1st Source - The following from the book: (by Mariano Gonzalez-Leal) Retonos de Espana en La Nueva Galicia, Tomo (book) V. Vol. 2 Universidad de Guanajuato: 1983. I have not obtained the book, but excerpts from the
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There is a Catalina Carvajal (Garbaxal) Rivera (Ribera) from that time frame which may be worth investigating. She is the daughter of Francisco Carvajal and Cathalina Ribera
Birth Name
Catalina Carvajal Rivera
Rick A. Ricci
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I can’t help you the Lizalde…