My gg-grandfather Ismael Martin del Campo and his siblings were born in
Lagos de Moreno. I found a website that was in Spanish about Lagos, but the
English translation made it read pretty funny. From what I could make out,
it was telling about the Jewish history of Lagos de Moreno. I am very
interested in this as it pertains to my ancestral research and my desire to
know of my ethnic origins.
>From what I have gathered from this translation, when the Jews were being
driven out of Spain during Queen Isabella's reign, they were given
the choice to go to New Spain. So, 50 or 60 families of Sephardic Jews came
to New Spain and established Lagos de Moreno as their colony. Apparently,
the word "Sephardic" is the Hebrew word for "Spain." So Sephardic Jews are
Spanish Jews.
Anyways, at this point in my research, it seems I am getting beyond what my
mother's family knew and am beginning to head into new territory. So, my
efforts are hit and miss. But, it doesn't discourage me, but instead makes
it seem more like an exploration.
Does anyone know of a website or book I could look for that would have more
on this history? In doing my research, the history of the areas interests
me as much as the family search does.
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California
Corrine there is no doubt there is heavy anecdotal evidence to the existence of Sephardic Jews throughout Mexico (most notably in Nuevo Leon of course).
But even in the Jalisco Highlands we can see the physical traits common in the Middle East among many people.... including some of my relatives (unibrow, lots of body hair, long thin noses, pale skin etc.,)... however, this archetype is not unknown among the Celtiberian & Basque populations of Pre-Islam Spain so its not definitive in any way. I have also heard many personal stories (including one involving a maternal great grandmother) of strange traditions such as:
> A different style of veil
> The preparation of unusual flat breads
> Speaking a foreign language
> Practicing unusual mystic traditions
Of course that isn't definitive either because we also know that Jalisco is home to a significant number of people of Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi & Armenian Catholic / Orthodox ancestry who began imigrating in the late 19th Century
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Hi, Juan"
How do you participate in this National Geographic Genome study? I suppose I could look that up on the internet. I have been very curious about my origins from both sides of my family. I am one of those people whom you see that can fit in many places. I look Native American to Native Americans, Italian to Italians, Middle Eastern to Middle Easterners, etc. The one thing I have never been asked is, "Are you Hispanic?" Mostly I am asked, "Are you Native American?" Anyways, I am interested in finding out just what I am from the perspective of my genes. My father was of German ancestry, with some English, French, Scottish, and Irish. It is on my mother's side which I am doing this research and looking into a possible Jewish ancestry.
As I mentioned in another posting, there is a wonderful film put out by the National Geographic Society on the rise of Islam and it covers the expansion of it into Spain. Beautiful story narrated by Ben Kingsley. I am also wondering
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Corrine,
I am currently reading a book by Victor Perera, The Cross & the Pear Tree, A Sephardic Journey. He uses his family as an example of what happened to the Sephardim after they were expelled from Spain. It is an easy to read story covering the history of Jews in Spain.
There is also a web site - sephardim.com - which gives family names, crests and locations of Jewish surnames from Spain. I have found several family surnames on this site. Like you, I am just beginning to explore the Sephardic connection.
Hope this helps.
Lucy Sweeney
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Lucy:
Thanks for the name of the book. I have yet to get back far enough in my research to prove (or disprove) any Jewish ethnicity, but I did look at the sephardim.com site you mention and found the name Martin and Muniz on it, as being of Jewish origin. Muniz is one of the surnames I am researching and, of course, Martin del Campo, my main surname of research, is sometimes given as just Martin. But, this interests me greatly regardless of any blood connection.
I also saw a beautiful video recently, which I got from the library, a National Geographic film I think was called something like the rise of Islam. Ben Kingsley narrates it and it is such a lovely account of the spread of Islam. It tells of its expansion centuries ago, which, of course, tells of its spread to Spain and shows all the beautiful architecture there which originated with the Muslims. It is a video well worth the time to watch.
Corrine Ardoin
Santa Maria, California
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I too have a Jewish ancestor her name was Inés Esteves she had 5 illegitimate children with João I of Portugal. I come from Princess Estefanía. I was also curious about my Jewish connection because their family was expelled to Portugal. Her grandfather was supposed to descend from Charlamagne according to Worldroots.com but have not searched anything yet. How did Jewish people arrive in Spain? Thanks.
-Daniel Méndez del Camino
_________________________________________________________________
How well do you know your celebrity gossip?
http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A
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Corrine,
>From what I can gather, the translation you got is not only "pretty funny"
but full of errors and inaccuracies. By translating word-for-word, most
programs can change the intended meaning of well written documents. Can you
tell me which website about Lagos is the one you referred to in your message
? I may be able to help with the translation.
Bill Figueroa
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Hi, Bill:
I finally found the source for the "funny" translation regarding the history of Lagos de Moreno and its Sephardic history. I got it from the online encyclopedia, called "Wikipedia." It starts out reading: "Lagos de Moreno is the City Capitol for the Great Sephardiya Nation or Lagos Kingdom..." etc. Now, I cannot remember if it was a translation, or not, but this is the source for my initial information on Sephardic Jewish history in Lagos.
Corrine
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Thanks for answering my question, Corrine. I'll look for the information on
Wikipedia and give you my opinion later.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Corrine Ardoin"
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 1:11 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sephardic History Source
>
> Hi, Bill:
>
> I finally found the source for the "funny" translation regarding the
> history of Lagos de Moreno and its Sephardic history. I got it from the
> online encyclopedia, called "Wikipedia." It starts out reading: "Lagos de
> Moreno is the City Capitol for the Great Sephardiya Nation or Lagos
> Kingdom..." etc. Now, I cannot remember if it was a translation, or not,
> but this is the source for my initial information on Sephardic Jewish
> history in Lagos.
>
> Corrine
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I just found this on the internet
Estatutos de Limpieza de Sangre
Source:http://groups.google.com.mx/group/Genealogia-Mexico/msg/8f81d8d5d856e15…;
Curso dictado en el CIDICSEF, Centro de Investigación y Difusión de la
Cultura Sefardí en Octubre del 2000.
Modificado en 2007
Pablo A. Chami
A lo largo de ésta exposición intentaremos contestar a las siguientes
preguntas:
¿Qué son los Estatutos de Limpieza de Sangre?
¿Cuándo y dónde surgieron?
¿Quiénes los pusieron en vigencia?
¿Qué sucedió en América y en España?
¿Tienen vigencia hoy?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Introducción:
Los Estatutos de Limpieza de Sangre aparecieron en España durante el
siglo XV en forma aislada, pero, durante el siglo XVI, fueron puestos
en vigencia sucesivamente por todas las congregaciones religiosas,
militares y civiles. Podemos decir que son reglamentaciones
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Gracias por esta informacion tan detallada y substancial. Quisera agregar que no debemos olivdarnos de unos detalles:
> Los espanoles siempre estuvieron en una situacion muy precaria. La unificacion de una fraccion de los pueblos indigenas bastaba para expulsarlos.
> Ya que los espanoles estaban en una grande desventaja numerica, y como los efectos de la Viruela y otras enfermedades del viejo mundo ya se habian disipado... la mejor carta que tenian era mantener divididos a los pueblos nativos introduciendo la estratificacion de castas. La razon por la cual los Negros y Mulatos ocupaban una casta superior a la de los indigenas es porque los espanoles temian que los Negros y los Indigenas se unieran para despojarlos del poder. Al elevar al grupo mas pequeno a una casta superior, los ponian en competencia directa, creando odio y resentimiento que aun persisten y llegan influir hasta en la relacion entre migrantes mexicanos y afro-americanos en Estados Unidos.
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Hola Juan,
No sé cual sea tu fuente de información para decir que negros y mulatos
ocupaban una casta superior a los indígenas. No lo creo. Como recordarás,
los negros y mulatos fueron esclavos de los españoles por varios siglos,
mientras que los indígenas eran trabajadores asalariados. A los indígenas
no se les podía esclavizar por orden del rey de España, desde el momento en
que llegó Cristóbal Colón a estas tierras. Mientras que los esclavos se
compraban y vendían sin restricciones, a los indígenas se les respetaba más.
Yo creo que hubo de todo. Muchos españoles y criollos trataron bien a sus
esclavos, pero también hubo quienes los trataron con crueldad. De eso te
podrás dar cuenta leyendo los testamentos de la gente rica, donde muchos
daban libertad a sus esclavos al morir. A muchos les daban derecho a usar
su nombre y apellido. Mientras la mayoría de indígenas laboraban en los
campos labrando la tierra y cuidando el ganado, los negros y mulatos
trabajaban en
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Hi Bill,
I don't buy the argument that Blacks & Mexican immigrants are struggling over the same jobs.
If you look at the Black demographics... those who are regularly employed tend to have Lower Middle Class jobs (Post Office, Municipal beauracrats, Bus Drivers etc.,)... these are jobs that usually pay > $30k plus Benefits & Pension and which require English skills & legal residency. The Mexicans that compete those jobs are generally 2nd or 3rd generation... by which time they have moved away from Inner City neighborhoods to Suburbs... and so are competing against low skilled Whites more so than Blacks who seem to be a bit more confined to Historic Black neighborhoods.
The other side of the Black demographic... are those that don't have regular employement... we are speaking of broken homes, welfare households, drug dealers, thiefs etc.,this group is most definitely confined to the "Black Ghetto" and not really out competing for jobs at the Sweat Shops & Restaurants.
However, I
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Aque región y tiempo se refiere cuando dice que los españoles simpre estuvieron en una situación muy precaria? Eso si ocurrió en el siglo XVI en Nueva Galicia y hasta el XVIII en Nuevo México, pero esas circunstancias no son las mismas que se presentaron en lo que fue Mesoamérica. (vea La Guerra Chichimeca, el Virreinato de la Nueva España edisión del FCE, etc), La división de los pueblos de indios y españoles fue después de la anulación de las Encomiendas y la creación de las Repúblicas de Indios obedeció más a la necesidad de protección que de creación de reservas de control, nada que ver una y otra. Jurídicamente, se considereaba a los indios iguales a los españoles, ellos pagaban tributo como lo hacían en Europa todos los conquistados, los españoles traspasaron y a veces adaptaron las instituciones europeas en el continente, los indios conservaron sus tierras, leyes y gobierno, había un gobernador indio en cada república, sólo pagaban impuestos si comerciaban con productos de
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Ni soy negro, ni siento desprecio por los indios, aunque a usted como que no le caen muy bien los negros... tanta pasion for "esclavizarlos"... pero bueno eso es aparte... vamos a analizar sus argumentos:
> Republicas Indigenas... si bien es cierto que al principio se respeto cierta soverania hacia los indigenas hay que preguntarnos porque? Por buenas gentes? Por que en sudamerican ne se le dio el mismo trato? Porque alla practicaban genocidio y esclavitud y en Mexico no? No sera POR EL HECHO de que los espanoles se sientian en una situatcion precaria? La realidad es que los Conquistadores con sus aliados Tlaxcalas perdieron casi todas las batallas contral los Mexica... solamente las normas mesoamericanas de guerra previno que los Aztecas acabaran con los Conquistadores temprano en la campania. Ya despues, entro la merma a causa de la viruela.. exagerada por el sitio a Tenochtitlan. Esto a los espanoles nunca se les olivdo y siempre anduvieron con paso muy leve... aplicando lo
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Me gustaria saber de donde sacaste los estudios
geneticos que hiso el imss?????? y que dices que en
JAlisco hay un 15 % de Genoma Negro, para verlo porque
la verdad no te creo, yo supe que se hiso un estudio
del Genoma Mexicano, pero no hecho por el imss,,, que
dio un resultado que en Guerrero el 25% de la
poblasion tiene origen de Negros, y en Sonora el 68%
de la poblasion es de origen Europeo, pero no se nada
de lo que tu mensionas, si me puedes decir de donde
obtuviste esa informasion me gustaria saberlo para
leerlo
--- Juan Marquez wrote:
>
> Ni soy negro, ni siento desprecio por los indios,
> aunque a usted como que no le caen muy bien los
> negros... tanta pasion for "esclavizarlos"... pero
> bueno eso es aparte... vamos a analizar sus
> argumentos:
>
> > Republicas Indigenas... si bien es cierto que al
> principio se respeto cierta soverania hacia los
> indigenas hay que preguntarnos porque? Por buenas
> gentes? Por que en sudamerican ne se le dio el
> mismo trato?
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Sabes que? No me gusta tu tono elitista y racista contra los negros, si quieres saber mas detalles del estudio buscalo. Solamente te doy una pista... es parte de un estudio para decidir si las medicinas desarolladas en Europa, Norte America o en el Oriente son efectivas en el contexto del genoma Mexicano, por que se encontre que muchos medicinas no funcionan en Mexico como se espera... y una de las teorias que es por nuestro genoma Negro (ya que en Estados Unidos esta mas o menos comprobado que la hay muchas medicinas que no funcionan adecuadamente para los Afro-Americanos).
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Hello Corrine -
If you go to the Sephardim.com site at this link http://www.sephardim.com/
you will find lots of information on Sephardic Jews of Spain, New Mexico and other areas in Latin America.
Also you will find surname history, a forum with lots of people who are researching their Sephardic ancestry or are just discovering that they have a Sephardic heritage.
Good luck,
Yolanda
----- Original Message ----
From: Corrine Ardoin
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 3:35:52 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish History
My gg-grandfather Ismael Martin del Campo and his siblings were born in
Lagos de Moreno. I found a website that was in Spanish about Lagos,
but the
English translation made it read pretty funny. From what I could make
out,
it was telling about the Jewish history of Lagos de Moreno. I am very
interested in this as it pertains to my ancestral research and my
desire to
know of my ethnic origins.
>From what I have gathered from
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During the reign of Isabella and Ferdinand, non christians and moslems were expulsed from Spain. THe choice was to leave everything of value and leave the country or convert. Non compliance and staying in spain as a practicing jew meant death.
Also, everyone going to the new world had to be a baptized christian. Non christians were not allowed to go to the new world. Only jews who had already convereted were allowed to go to the new world.
True some jews were crypto jews- practicing judiasm in secret.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from "Corrine Ardoin" : --------------
> My gg-grandfather Ismael Martin del Campo and his siblings were born in
> Lagos de Moreno. I found a website that was in Spanish about Lagos, but the
> English translation made it read pretty funny. From what I could make out,
> it was telling about the Jewish history of Lagos de Moreno. I am very
> interested in this as it pertains to my ancestral research and my desire to
> know of
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Cecil Roth is on of the most knowledgable person's in the history you seek and the public library should have his books and if you just punch in Sephardic jews on the catalogue source it will tell you what books and such your library system has on the subject.
mari
eaherold@att.net wrote:
During the reign of Isabella and Ferdinand, non christians and moslems were expulsed from Spain. THe choice was to leave everything of value and leave the country or convert. Non compliance and staying in spain as a practicing jew meant death.
Also, everyone going to the new world had to be a baptized christian. Non christians were not allowed to go to the new world. Only jews who had already convereted were allowed to go to the new world.
True some jews were crypto jews- practicing judiasm in secret.
--
Esther A. Herold
-------------- Original message from "Corrine Ardoin" : --------------
> My gg-grandfather Ismael Martin del Campo and his siblings were born in
> Lagos de Moreno. I found
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Jewish Influences in the Jalisco Highlands