Hello Nuestros Ranchos forum,
does anyone know something about don jose de Guzman y prado? hes called an
exposito in the house of pedro ruiz de Esparza, which i guess means hes an
hijo de padres no conocidos, but it seems strange since hes called Don jose
de guzman y prado, plus it also says on his defuncion that he dies poor
which also seems strange. does anyone know about him
Danny C. Alonso
Many people that were well off during their lifetime are recorded in their record of "defuncîon"as being poor. Life was tough and it was easy to go from doing alright to being poor, especially in old age. Many assets were often distributed before death occurred so then there is no need for a will and the "acta de defuncíon" will say "pobre".
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Hola Danny:
Como no se cuando nació José, hice una busqueda más amplia y me resultó un familia en de Aguascalientes en Familysearch:
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPR-8D9 : 14 July 2015), Luis De Mendosa and Felipa De Gusman Y Prado, 20 Feb 1702; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,823.
"México matrimonios, 1570-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHPR-DMP : 14 July 2015), Melchor De Richarte and Ana De Gusman Prado, 20 Jan 1726; citing El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico, reference ; FHL microfilm 299,825.
Son siete registros pero no se si te sirvan.
Saludos
Marcelina
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Thank you Mr. Ricci and Marcelina. this is very helpful. but it still seems strange that someone name Don Jose de guzman y Prado was a exposito.
Danny C. Alonso
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Dear Danny,
I am in agreement with you that this isn't a typical "exposito" case as a double surname is given. They probably knew who his parents were. Actually in many cases they knew who the parents were but they were kept secret. A great uncle of mine adopted a child who was labeled "exposito" but this great uncle knew who the parents were. A not to distant relative had an affair and fathered the child. My great uncle adopted the child without ever divulging that there was also a blood relationship between Him and his adopted child. He preferred that the circumstances of the affair be kept secret. I was never able to find out the identity of my aunt's biological father, just that he shared the same surname as my great uncle.
Many times the "exposito" child was a blood relative to the family that was adopting him/her, just like my aunts case.
Rick A. Ricci
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Hi Danny,
Don José de Guzmán y Prado is my 9th great grandfather, but, I'm not sure I completely understand your question, although, I think you're asking why is someone poor, who was abandoned as a child, being addressed with the honorific "don." Also, I know who you're referring to, but, for others, it's always helpful to give the spouse and the time frame.
A few things, first, I agree with Rick that life was tough during these times, many of these people were farmers, cattle ranchers, etc., so it wouldn't take much to lose your livelihood if your cattle or livestock became sick, or were attacked by other animals, or were stolen, or any number of other problems that come with raising livestock. Also, I agree that the compound surname is probably a clue to his parentage.
Second, not everyone addressed as don or doña had wealth or property, some were addressed as don or doña because of the positions they held in the community or because of who their ancestors were. Even today in
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Thank you Chris and Mr. Ricci. This is extremely helpful. i didnt know any of this information. a lot of this is very interesting. I'll need to go through this more than once.
Danny C. Alonso
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Guzman y Prado is not my line, but in my frustrating search for the root of the Ruelas/Sotomayor line I came across an entry a while back that may help you...or not.
In 1707 Francisco Lino de Guzman from Pinos desired to enter the priesthood. His parents were Capt. Alonso de Guzman de Prado and Polonia de Castaneda. Various witnesses stated that Alonso was the legitimate son of Capt. Francisco de Guzman y Prado and Clara de Ayala.
There are many relatives from religious orders mentioned, mainly on Polonia’s side. However, they did identify two cousins (primos hermanos) of Alonso:
Dr. D. Geronimo de Aguilar (deceased), Canonigo Magistral de la Cd de Guadalajara
Dr. D. Diego de Aguilar, Racionero de la Sta. Iglesia Catedral de Cd de Valladolid
You can see the full extraction in my Dropbox account. Click on MLM extractions (draft).doc. It is on page 120 of 139.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…
Below is a link to the
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Wow, Mary Lou this is amazing. This solves half of a huge mystery. I descend from both Alonso de Guzman y Prado and Joseph de Guzman y Prado, so this helps me out tremendously. Although, it also confuses me now even more. I've believed and have been told since I began researching three years ago that both were brothers. Even if there weren't other posts mentioning they were brothers, it still seemed obvious that they were, especially since they're the only two people that use the compuesto Guzman y Prado until their own children begin using it. Plus, they are relatively close in age. Joseph de Guzman y Prado even appears as the padrino to some of Alonso de Guzman y Prado's children. They even intermarried into the same families. So, now knowing that Alonso de Guzman y Prado is the son of Francisco de Guzman and Clara de Ayala, even though this does add more confusion, I think it definitely now suggests that Joseph de Guzman y Prado is a possible illegitimate child of one of the
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Very glad to share. Realize now that what I post in Dropbox does not allow the reader to search and find specific words. That is disappointing because it limits research of larger files. If you'll send me your email I'll be happy to provide you with copies of my Word documents. Thanks.
Mary Lou
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Dying poor