Hello all, I am currently awaiting some film from the Family History Center regarding the marriage of a Joseph Manuel Dias to a Maria Anna Peres in Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I have been able to determine that they were both married on June 25, 1752 (Batch #M603726, Source Call #0218517) I'm hoping the actual film will show who the parents are. While I'm waiting for the film, I thought I would just throw this event out there to see if anyone just happens to have any information on the parents of Joseph Manuel Dias and/or Maria Anna Peres. I'm assuming their DOB's will be sometime around 1730. Any help would be appreciated.
Thursday, July 24, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
There are good lookups and bad look ups and this one
turned out well. I ask that you continue to look at
all the information yourself to determine what fits
and what does not. I say that because these are the
people on your lines and you are the most qualified to
know what is correct.
Of interest to me, was a Joseph DIAS, mestizo that
married a Eufracia Franca de CASTANEDA, mulata
esclava, that I looked at first. It was next to the
one you asked about. I mention this because in doing
research it is good to look at other people and not
just cut and paste, so to speak. In this example, I
did not find padrinos which was a surprise but there
were three witnesses to the marriage. I only had a
short time so did not look at other marriages on this
film.
For you, this is what I saw and took note of:
June 25, 1752 in Tepatitlan de Morelos...Joseph Manuel
DIAS, esp., org. y vecino de esta fel. en la
congregacion de la Villa, hijo leg. de
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This is great Reye! This new Pedro should be a son of Pedro Senior or someother real close relation even possible grandson. Thanks to Patricia youre real close to connect to the trunk!
At least you know he was a spaniard so it is the same family for sure. Sometimes they'd give their last names to the slaves or even "indígenas", in order to honor their "master". (I really don't like the usage of that term) :(. That Francisca de PAdilla might likely be of the Padilla Dávila spanish family. (Since their from Tepatitlán. I find as soon as you open a door, many open to discover about your ancestry. -Daniel
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Hello Patricia. I just got home from work and had the nice surprise of your research. First of all, I greatly appreciate your work, you went above and beyond and I'm very grateful. As I just read your notes, I haven't had the opportunity to digest your research. However, it appears Joseph Manuel DIAS' parents were two people I wasn't aware of. Daniel initially thought there was a strong possibility that his parents were another Joseph Dias and that his grandfather was a Pedro Dias born around 1660, both in the Dias Castellano line. I just read Daniel's comments about your findings and he believes the "new Pedro" you have found might have been another son of the Pedro Dias born around 1660 and/or a close relative. Nevertheless, I now have something more to work with and will keep you updated as I get into it. Also, in regards to your upcoming surgery, you will be in my prayers. Once again, thank you.
Reye
patricia burton wrote:
Wednesday, July 23, 2008
Dear Reye
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It is exciting. It was very nice of Patricia to do that for me. I just ordered the marriage film on the new Pedro Dias today. It will be interesting to see if he is a son or not of the original Pedro Dias we discussed.
Daniel Mendez wrote:
This is great Reye! This new Pedro should be a son of Pedro Senior or someother real close relation even possible grandson. Thanks to Patricia youre real close to connect to the trunk!
At least you know he was a spaniard so it is the same family for sure. Sometimes they'd give their last names to the slaves or even "indígenas", in order to honor their "master". (I really don't like the usage of that term) :(. That Francisca de PAdilla might likely be of the Padilla Dávila spanish family. (Since their from Tepatitlán. I find as soon as you open a door, many open to discover about your ancestry. -Daniel
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Friday, July 25, 2008
Dear Daniel--
Here are the results from the lookup request:
First of all, the Film #218,445 is a difficult film to
get information from quickly. It must be studied and
viewed thru a lense that has high magnification.
There are many baptisms listed on each page, maybe 9
or more, and the writing is very small. I do not
think grandparents are listed. There are many years
covered in this microfilm-- 1785-1803. The first part
is as I spoke of before.
The second part is more spread out but there are
manchas (dark spots) and it is very hard to read. The
second part which does tend to start over for some of
the years until it goes to 1803 seemed to me to show
the place of Cerro Gordo. I could not find your
Antonio ACEVES baptised 10 Aug 1802 in the place where
I though it should be. Perhaps when you get the film,
you will have better luck.
Film #218,516, which covers the years of 1686-1735,
was better but I did not always see parents for the
couples who were
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I'm always amazed how our ancestors keep showing up in other places! I have Maciel/Leivano ancestors in Michoacan and have Alvaro Maciel and Ysabel Orosco in my records posted on Rootsweb.com.. The problem is when I merged my programs from a laptop than went haywire I ended up with deleted records, merged records that were in error and in Alvaro Maciel's case, he and some of his children are there with absolutely no references or reason for being there. I do think they are connected through my Alvarez del Castillo and Gutierrez families and my record shows the Maciel family from Tangancicuaro Michoacan who's records appear in the Chilchota Michoacan records. I do not have Geromina so find your information really interesting. I did not realize the records error in my files until I saw this message, I do thank you. I did not have parents for Ysabel Orosco.Linda Castanon-Long in B.C.
Catalina's father was Juan ASEWNCIO de LEON born about
1614 in Mexico and married about 1637 in
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I have these records from Chilchota you may be interested in if you don't have them. they were taken from 0640965 Chilchota Michoacan baptism, if you would like me to send you an attachement of the film as I copied it I would be happy to do so since there may be other surnames you are interested in that I could not connect to.
Baptism: 5 May 1621 in ChilchotaFrancisca EspanolaParents: Juan de Camora and Ysabel del CastilloPad: El Padre Alonso de Berdusco en este xu de Etucuaro Baptism: 17 June 1642 in ChilchotaPEDRO ACENCIO LUBANA EspanolParents: JUAN ACENCIO DE LEON and Dona GERONIMA DE LUBANA Pad: Gregorio Bejar and Dona Maria de Lievana his wife from Tanganziquaro Baptism: 16 July 1640 in ChilchotaANNA ASENSIO LIEBANA EspanolaParents: Juan Asensio (Ponze) de Leon and Dona Jeronima de LiebanaPad: Antonio Rodrigues from Jacona and Dona Maria de Lievana daughter of Gregorio de Bejar and Dona Maria de Lievana from Tanganziquaro
Baptism: 28 May 1647 in Chilchota Jph Alvares
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Just to give you some hope. I had previously ordered the baptismal records from Tepa 1870 to 1872. They listed both maternal and paternal grandparents, so you may be in luck, it looks as if Tepatitlan during that time was keeping meticulous records. Good luck. Would you mind taking a look at some records on that film for me? I am not sure yet, but I may have a couple I need from that film. Also, do you have a Cornelia Dias in your line?
Maureen Bejar
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I have not come across the name Cornelia Diaz. Yes, I will take a look at anything you need just let me know.
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Thank you for the offer to look at the records. However, while I have not come across anything specific on that film, I did find some things intriguing. There are too many records which I am interested in on that film, so I am not going to burden you. Through my Ledesma line there was a Rosa Maria Cervantes that married Cayetano Ledesma and some of their children have records in 218445 baptisms 1785-1803. There are many Cervantes on your film that may be related to Rosa Maria. I also came across some De La Torre's.
Please note everyone doing research on De La Torre that some of the records on film 218517 have an alternative spelling of De La Thorre. This is something that I have never seen before and could make all the difference on a search!
One last thing though. My Alviso line was marrying into the Dias family. Cornelia Dias married to Ignacio Alviso in 1832 Jalos, I also have a Atilana Dias married to Mateo Alviso 1821 Jalos. I had originally thought that it was Tepa
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Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name. -Daniel
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I'm just hoping that the marriage records actually show who the parents of Joseph Manuel Dias are. If they don't, it's going to be tough. It will be interesting to see which one of three families he is from.
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name. -Daniel
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I am sure Reyes that it will include the parents of MAnuel, unless he was widowed and remarried than that is the only case where it wont list the parents. Often when someone was married more than once, they will only list the parents on the first marriage even if its 7 marriages. Once you reach Manuel's grandfather who ever he may have been you will connecto to all of us in someway, youll go back so far in your genealogy 1500-1600, and given the right line back to the Kings of Spain and princes of Europe, I connect to royalty thanks to my Spanish, Portuguese and German ancestry. Its a good feeling knowing where you come from
but the best is for the perservation for future generations. Since you have alteño ancestors, you're full spanish i suppose, until we can get further possibly italian, portugues, french and others who arrived in Méjico. -Daniel
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Hey Daniel, I was looking at the records that I have a little closer and I did find the following:
Joseph Manuel Dias - according to family search, under Batch #M603728, Source Call #0218519 (marriage record), Joseph's grandson Juan Jose Diaz is listed as Juan Jose Diaz Castellano and was married to a Cresencia Gomez in 1811. This same record shows that Juan Jose Diaz Castellano's father, who is the son of Joseph Manuel Dias, as Nicolas Diaz Castellano (Married to a Teresa De Asebes in 1788). So, does this mean my family line is going to be in the Diaz Castellano line you are referring to? If so, are you aware of how far back the Diaz Castellano line has been traced already?
Reye
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Hello Reye I can tell you now that you Díaz family will be wither of three Spaniard families
Díaz-Tiscareño, Díaz-Castellanos or Díaz de León since they are from Tepa. 2 if them being origin
og Aguascalientes and the Castellanos being an Alteño name.
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This does mean you're a Díaz-Castellano, that's good! Either way any of the Díaz family you connected to we'd still be related, I descned from all 3. I believe an other person and myself have traced this family back to 1625 or so to Spain I believe. They mostly resided in Tepatitlán and Ayo El Chico or Ayotlan same place. Now you need to connect to our trunk of the tree and we'll see how exactly were related. -Daniel P.S I will look into your line.
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Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything, its important! The founder of the family was Pedro Castellano he had only one known son to carry his surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids the last name. So you should descend from Joseph born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
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Daniel, while we are on the subject of Castellanos. I have stoppod at Santiago Castellanos b-abt 1760 Tepa, Married to Magdalena Navarro- I have the Navarro, I need to continue with Castellanos, mother may have been Josepha Arias- father Unknown
----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel Mendez
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Joseph Manuel Dias - Married in 1752- Tepatitlan De Morelos
Hello Reye, the info you gave me is helpful your Joseph Manuel should be son of my Joseph Díaz born 1687 several of is kids married in Tepatitlán. That film of Manuel married in 1752 will show everything, its important! The founder of the family was Pedro Castellano he had only one known son to carry his surname, all his daughters never gave their own kids the last name. So you should descend from Joseph born in 1687. He had kids until the 1730. -Daniel (Have you ordered the film? Hope this helps.
________________
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I am actually not sure if the Diaz castellanos and Castellano families are related. None of their descendants rarely use Castellanos, they eventually shortened to Diaz now in current usage. You might be a family from Castellanos de Talaveara?? possiblity?
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So Daniel, after you gave me this information I did a little digging on IGI and was able to determine that a Joseph Dias was born around 1687 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and was married to a Juana Geronima Hurtado de Mendoza in 1709 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco (No source info listed on this record). I was also able to determine that this same Joseph Dias had a father by the name of Pedro Dias (not listed as Pedro Dias Castellano) and a mother by the name of Maria Albares (no source information listed on this record). It states that Pedro Dias was born around 1660 in De, Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco and was married to Maria Albares around 1680. I was also able to find, on IGI (Batch #C603001, Source#0222109) that a Manuel Augustin Dias Hurtado (Assuming this is Joseph Manuel Dias) was baptized in 1728 in De Atotonilico El Alto, Jalisco, and his parents were Joseph Dias & Geronima Hurtado De Mendoza. So, I'm assuming this is the same Joseph Diaz and Pedro
Castellano
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Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
give great clues to the family lines especially for
these earlier times. There will not be absolute dates
and or places but one can tell/ guess who married who
and from which trunk families they came.
I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco el
Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the city
itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
think you are going in the right direction by putting
forth questions for which some more experienced
researcher might have the answers
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Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
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Jan, The site that I use is, PueblosAmerica.com
However, I have not used it in conjunction with a family name, only in
locating a rancho that appears in a document. This site offers some very useful information. Hope this helps
/hs
San Jose, CA
Jan Jaeckle wrote:
Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
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Thanks Santos, that's the one! Jan
--- On Mon, 7/21/08, Santos Luna wrote:
From: Santos Luna
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] locating Ranchos in Mexico
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 10:19 AM
Jan, The site that I use is, PueblosAmerica.com
However, I have not used it in conjunction with a family name, only in
locating a rancho that appears in a document. This site offers some very
useful information. Hope this helps
/hs
San Jose, CA
Jan Jaeckle wrote:
Hello All,
I wonder if anyone remembers a website I lost. It was a way to find
Ranchos in Mexico by the name of the family that lived there. I used it to
find a Trevino rancho in Matamoros. Afterward, I was able to see the rancho
from an arial photo. Thanks in advance.
Jan
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Thanks for the information Patricia.
patricia burton wrote: Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage dispensations can
give great clues to the family lines especially for
these earlier times. There will not be absolute dates
and or places but one can tell/ guess who married who
and from which trunk families they came.
I have researched for many years in the Atotonilco el
Alto area and most of my finds have been in the
ranchos around Atotonilco el Alto and not in the city
itself. There is still much to be discovered. I
think you are going in the right direction by putting
forth questions for which some
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Question for you Patricia. Based on what you have just told me, the furthest I have been able to trace back so far on my Diaz line is Pedro Dias who was born around 1660. According to Daniel, Pedro should be a Diaz Castellano. It has been notated that Pedro Dias was married to a Maria Albares around 1680. So, my question is, can the "marriage dispensations" list and/or state who the parents of Pedro Dias were?? Or, considering IGI does not show who the parents are, there is probably no microfiche to show this information?
patricia burton wrote:
Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
The first births available for Atotonilco el Alto seem
to start from 1699 to 1749. The marriages of the same
place seem to be from 1743-1789. Where there is no
source indicated, I would think that the researchers
were giving their best estimates.
Although I have looked at some marriage dispensations
in the past, these are harder to locate with the
proper Microfilm number. Marriage
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Monday, July 21, 2008
Dear Reye Diaz--
There are a number of reasons why a marriage would
require a dispensation. For instance:
1. The groom or bride were from an area different
from the area in which they were to be married.
2. The groom and or bride had been married before and
were either one or both a widower or widow.
3. The couple were related to one another by blood
and by doing a dispensation, the different parents
going back to the original first parents, would be
noted.
4. One person of the marrying couple could have been
related by marriage to a third person who was a
relative of the second person in the marrying couple.
..................
One of my favorite research topics is/was Don Nicolas
Alexandro LOMELIN. Here are my notes on this fellow
who was married 5 times to 4 women, two of which were
related to ancestors of my husband.
He is our direct line relative.
Baptismal information--none yet.
First Marriage of four was on Microfilm #280,895.
He
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Yes! This is the same family I descend from the Díaz Castellano. They had 4-5 known daughters most took the mothers last name not Díaz. One did take Díaz. The sons took Díaz. He could not have been born in Atot. because he dosent show on the microfilm. He either came from Spain or a nearby Alteño city. Although he is the first Díaz Castellano ever mentioned in Los Altos. Díaz Castellano is a compound surname! Their is a difference between "apellido compuesto familiar" and "apellido compuesto paternal y maternal" (eventhough they mean both mean the same thing in a way. The second example is when the usual father mother have a child he/she carries both names for only one generation. The first example is when two families (often important families or just whatever not sure what to say!) decide they want all their descendants to carry both their names forever until someone wants to compound it again or shortened. Our Spaniard families have very complicated naming systems in the world in my
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So Daniel, you say Pedro Diaz could not have born in De Atotonilco El Alto, becasuse he does not show up on the Microfilm. Out of curiosity, why would IGI have him being born here in 1660 if he was not? How does that record get entered? Do you have a theory?
Reye
Daniel Mendez wrote:
Yes! This is the same family I descend from the Díaz Castellano. They had 4-5 known daughters most took the mothers last name not Díaz. One did take Díaz. The sons took Díaz. He could not have been born in Atot. because he dosent show on the microfilm. He either came from Spain or a nearby Alteño city. Although he is the first Díaz Castellano ever mentioned in Los Altos. Díaz Castellano is a compound surname! Their is a difference between "apellido compuesto familiar" and "apellido compuesto paternal y maternal" (eventhough they mean both mean the same thing in a way. The second example is when the usual father mother have a child he/she carries both names for only one generation. The first
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IT was obiously a regular genealogist like us who thought Pedro might have been born in such year in such place. They could have add it to the IGI. I have many ancestors who are said to have been born in Nueva España on the IGI when really they were from Spain. I have no doubt Pedro was a penínsular, being a native of the Iberic Peninsula. Many of my ancestors were penínsulares because the only way you were able to be of the high class in México you had to be born in Europe. a lot of my ancestors (mother's side mostly) would actually take their pregnant wife or acutally empregnant their wives in Spain so their child could be born in Spain when they returned to New Spain, they would be in the highest class of society and get upper jobs. I believe this is all pointless if your Spanish your Spanish(I dont think you the place matters, but that was their beliefS!
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I have this but you should wait for the film!
JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
Pedigree
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
30 MAY 1731
Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
Death:
Burial:
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.:
Dates:
Source Call No.:
Type:
Printout Call No.:
Type:
C603001
1699 - 1749
0222109
Film
NONE
Sheet:
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Saturday, July 19, 2008
Dear Daniel--
Could you please send the rest of the information on
this person since you have it. I, too, have the film
#222,109 on indefinite loan but I am not at the Family
History Center until Wednesday.
Is there a wife and children for Joseph Manuel Dias?
Are there other siblings for him? Who are his
parents? Exactly where was Joseph Manuel Dias born,
in Atotonilco el Alto, or one of the surrounding
ranchos? Is the date of birth the same as the
baptismal date? Who were the godparents?
Thanking you in advance.
Sincerely,
Patricia Burton
San Diego
--- Daniel Mendez wrote:
>
> I have this but you should wait for the film!
>
>
>
>
>
> JOSEPH MANUEL DIAS
> Pedigree
>
>
> Male
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Event(s):
>
>
> Birth:
>
>
> Christening:
>
>
>
>
> 30 MAY 1731
> Atotonilco El Alto, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
> Death:
>
>
> Burial:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages:
>
>
>
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Hello Patricia, in regards to Joseph Manuel Dias, Daniel was responding to my original query in which I was advising the Nuestro community that I'm currently awaiting film from the Family History Center regarding the marriage of a Joseph Manuel Dias to a Maria Anna
Peres in Tepatitlan De Morelos, Jalisco, Mexico. I have been able to
determine that they were both married on June 25, 1752 (Batch #M603726,
Source Call #0218517) and am hoping the actual film will show who the
parents are. While I'm waiting, I threw this event out there in case anyone already had this information as to who Jospeh Manuel Dias' parents were. As a result of this original query, Daniel was kind enough to let me know that there is a strong possibility that this Dias line comes from one of three lines, including the Diaz Castellano line. After telling me this, I looked into what I currently have already and was able to determine that Joseph's grandson Juan Jose Diaz is listed as Juan Jose Diaz Castellano
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Hi Patricia, i actually dont have any other info on him, but I do know his family had to be Diaz Castellano, the Diaz
family of Atotonilco were Diaz Castellano.
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Joseph Manuel Dias--mar. 1752--Parents, His, Hers