Dr.mt

Elizalde for Amanda

Published by Esther_Jordan_Lopez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Amanda,  I tried emailing to your private email but couldn't get through.  So I
hope this will do.
:) Esther

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "esther@enhanced.org"

Comments

Published by matusalem – Wed, 2010-03-24 10:44 | Permalink

Comment

Esther: muchas gracias por la informacion que me has proporcionado, ahora ya tengo de donde seguir obteniendo más datos, pues me das lon números de los Cds.Si en algo te puedo ayudar con ancestros de Nuevo Leon Y coahuila, con gusto lo haré.

Amanda.

La Plaza de Cruz Moya, Zacatecas

Published by stanleyalucero –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Do you know in what city the Plaza de Cruz Moya might have been in 1679 in Zacatecas? I need to find out which LDS microfilms to order to try to locate records for:

Gracias Daniel Del Camino

Published by 1890rubio –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Saludos A todos los miembros de nuestros Ranchos my name is Francisco Rubio.I want to thank Daniel Del Camino for giving me information with dates of birth of my Grandfather who was born in 1850 in C

Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 16

Published by mimasep1959 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I agree that this was a great idea to pose our brick walls to those who attended the conference.

Comments

Published by meef98367 – Wed, 2010-03-17 13:30 | Permalink

Comment

Great idea Jose,

Here is my brick wall:

For years I have looked and looked for anything on my father's maternal ancestors. His paternal ancestors I was able to track clear back to the late 1600s in Jerez, Zac. with the help of several members of NR.

I cannot find my father's mother or her parents anywhere. Her name was Gorgonia Garcia, the daughter of Ignacio Garcia and Maria Guadalupe Rodriguez, very common surnames. I can't find anything on my father or his sister, either. I did find the information on their father, which is why I was able to track those to the late 1600s.

My father was born in Jerez in 1903, and his sister was born in nearby Guadalupe a few years earlier, so Gorgonia had to have been living in Jerez or Guadalupe at one time. The records for the first years of the 20th century were burned during the revolution--that is what a priest in Jerez told my father. Gorgonia died when my father was a toddler, so all he knew about her was her name

Read full comment ➜

Comment

It seems like the information that you are looking for is available through
the Family History Centers follow this URL
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…
it
will take you to the Catholic church records that are available for Jerez.

Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Comment

Ed, I have the following film at my FHC for the dates that my father (Guadalupe Olague, born Jan. 28, 1903 in Jerez) was born, but I don't find him listed there:

0439867 Baptisms 1899-1903 Iglesia Immaculada

I also have never found a marriage listed for Gorgonia Garcia and my grandfather Francisco Olague. Maybe they weren't married and maybe they never baptized their children. I guess Gorgonia will remain a mystery.

Thanks,

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:51:52 -0600
> From: eduardohseoane@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 16
>
> It seems like the information that you are looking for is available through
> the Family History Centers follow this URL
> http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…

Read full comment ➜

Comment

If they ever came to the United States there should be border crossing
information on them that might indicate place of birth parents etc....
Additionally in the US censuses it usually indicates in what year they
immigrated to the USA. If you can find that information it should help you
to locate your ancestors. In the boarder crossings pay close attention to
who your ancestors are going to visit or traveling with them. Back then very
few people crossed illegally. You can access border crossing records and
census records at Ancestry.com. If your ancestors were in Mexico in 1930
that census is available online at http://pilot.familysearch.org but you
have to know the municipality and city and state where they resided. it will
give the age how long they have been married children and ages of the
children. Good luck!

Saludos desde Lago Salado
Eduardo H Seoane

Comment

Ed,

No, Gorgonia died in Mexico at the turn of the 20th century when my father was a toddler. His father immigrated with him and his sister and his brother and his family in 1913 when my father was 10 years old, and they never returned to Mexico except that one time in the early 1960s when my father went to Jerez to try to get his birth certificate he needed to get his retirement from Westinghouse. There were no records, so my father paid a lawyer and a judge in Jerez to give him one. My father became a naturalized US citizen in 1941, and I sent for those records but they only state that his parents were born in Mexico, no city, etc.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:23:45 -0800
> From: eduardohseoane@gmail.com
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 16
>
> If they ever came to the United States there should be border crossing
> information on them that might indicate place of

Read full comment ➜

Comment

So did you look at the border crossing records for each individual that
immigrated? There is also the possibility that members of the family visited
the US or went to Mexico when children were born and baptized or for
marriages or deaths. They did not necesarily need to be your grandfather but
could have been one of his siblings, parents, uncles, cousins, etc.... So,
their could be additional border crossings. These records are not the same
as the naturalization record. Often they will give the place of birth, age,
traveling companions, place traveling too, people they are going to visit,
different dates in which they had entered the US. If it were my family, I
would definitely look for them.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Emilie Garcia
wrote:

>
> Ed,
>
>
>
> No, Gorgonia died in Mexico at the turn of the 20th century when my father
> was a toddler. His father immigrated with him and his sister and his
> brother and his family in 1913 when my father was 10 years old, and they
>

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Ed - Yes, I have scoured the immigration and border crossing records for my father's uncles, cousins, and their in-laws who crossed over in 1913. I don't find anything on them after the initial crossing. It appears that none of them ever returned to Mexico, nor did they keep up a correspondence with anyone back there. My father's mother had died in Mexico as well as all his grandparents except for the one grandmother Rafaela Tinajero, his father's mother, who they had brought with them.

The border crossing records from Juarez to El Paso don't state who they left behind, who their last contact was, only that their last residence in Mexico was Chihuahua, Mexico, no city, nothing else, that they were crossing over to remain permanently in the United States, and no destination was given.

My father and mother went to Jerez in July 1965 to try to obtain a copy of his birth certificate for retirement, but the priest there told him that the records had been burned. He then went

Read full comment ➜

Comment

So from what you are telling me I am assuming that you have looked at the
Información Matrimonial prior to your fathers birth as well as the
Matrimonios? Did you find the death record for your GMother Gorgonia?
Normally people where married in the locality where the bride is from. But
the Banns are "normally" published in both localities. Have you looked at
military records they might have additional information, who knows?

Comment

Ed,

I did look at the films for the matrimonios and the death records and found nothing. However, there are hundreds of rolls of films for Jerez alone, and I have been able to order and view only about a couple of dozen, and I haven't ordered the Dispensation films. I think I did look at the "hijos naturales" at the main FHC and there was nothing there.

I did send an e-mail for information about the military to a site recommended by someone in NR that lives in Mexico, since both my grandfather Francisco Olague Felix/Tinajero and and his brother-in-law Jose Garcia Davila had been revolutionary soldiers with high ranks, but they only had information on high-ranking Federales officers, not revolutionaries.

Jose's grandfather was a wealthy espanol hacendado who disowned his daughter for marrying an "indio". All the more reason for Jose to join the revolutionaries and marry the sister (Angela) of his fellow revolutionary, my grandfather.

My grandfather and his

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I was talking about military records in the United States also Ancestry has
World War I draft records amongst others. There might be information there.
You might also want to look at relatives of Gorgonia brothers, sisters,
etc., that might have remained in México. Their descendants might have
additional information.

Comment

Dear Ed,

I have looked at the WWI records in Ancestry. I found some records for my father's cousins, but they are the sons of my grandfather's brother Ygnacio Olague who crossed the border with him and they are not related to my father's grandmother Gorgonia.

I can't track relatives of Gorgonia because I don't know who Gorgonia's siblings and their descendants were. I have tried finding records for anyone born to Ygnacio Garcia and Maria Gaudalupe Rodriguez, her parents, and find nothing, not Gorgonia or any siblings.

There just are no records in Mexico for my father, even, or his only sibling, or their mother Gorgonia. I was hoping to find Ygnacio and Maria Guadalupe in Jerez (marriage, birth, children). I find nothing.

My father himself went to Jerez in 1965 and tried to track down anyone who remembered his parents and could find no one after fifty years of having been gone from there. He did hire a lawyer and paid the court for a belated birth certificate

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Ed,

I have been a subscriber of Ancestry.com for years.

My father Guadalupe Olague had only one sibling, Soledad Olague who crossed over in 1917 with her paternal grandmother Rafaela Tinajero "to join her father". My grandfather came over first and found a job on the railroad in the Texas panhandle. From there he went to Morgan County, CO where they raised beets. His father's brother was Ygnacio Olague and he came over with Francisco around 1913, and he brought his wife Guadalupe and his children also.

In the census records for 1920 and 1930 they all lived in the same place and were the only Hispanics in that town, Snyder, CO, Morgan County. I was born there in 1939. During WWII we all moved to California, where my father and his cousins found jobs as welders at the Alameda shipyards working on Liberty Ships. My father's last job was as a welder at the Westinghouse plant in Sunnyvale, CA.

Thanks,

Emilie

> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:13:51 -0600
> From

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Eduardo,

Thank you for your help. I apologize for the delay in my response. I found some info on my grandfather. I now have my great grandmother's name, it was Felipa Valdez. One of his sister's was Maria Dolores.
>From what I know, he was the only one who came over. I have searched the border crossings on Ancestry. com & I found my grandfather & grandmother on them. I don't know who his uncles or aunts were but I will continue to search.

Thanks again,
Barbara Guerrero
Original Message -----
From: Eduardo Seoane
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50,Issue 16

If you provide more information, like the name of the siblings, (uncles and
aunts of your father) of your grandfather then maybe someone in the group
could look for those border crossings on Ancestry.com

Comment

Emilie:

you go www.familysearch.org after you put searches .. FRancisco Olague and go to Pedigree source file
5487396-0302109164940

[refine search] [Print]

Do you talk with Salvador Cabral Valdez? he is a wonderfull person I don't Know if he is in member of nuestros ranchos but inthe other genealogy forum I think yes, many times he helps every body and the information I will give you is from him.. in his page you can get or ask him from you father and family Francisco Olague 17 sep 1872 Salitrillo Zacatecas son of Pedro Olague and Rafaela Tinajero..he has all your tree he is an expert in Zacatecas and a good person..

http://jerez-zacatecas.galeon.com/

your grandfather you can find im here:
h/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=AncestorSearchResults.asp%3Ffirst%5Fname%3DRafael%26last%5Fname%3DReynoso%2By%2BMartinez%26fathers%5Ffirst%5Fname%3D%26fathers%5Flast%5Fname%3D%26mothers%5Ffirst%5Fname%3D%26mothers%5Flast%5Fname%3D%26spouses%5Ffirst%5Fname%3D%26spouses%5Flast

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Lety -

Yes, Salvador, who is a member of NR, and another person in Mexico City and one in Jerez and one in California are the ones who were able to help me the most with my trees on my Olague/Arellano side. In fact, Salvador's tree is the same as mine when you go back several generations, and he downloaded my tree from Rootsweb and he merged it with his so that I could get those ancestors we share from way back in the 1700s and late 1600s. I just haven't uploaded my revised tree to NR yet because I don't know how.

What happened is that the records in Jerez are almost complete for the Olague/Arellano, but there is nothing on my father himself or his sister or his mother's parents. I think the records from 1890 to 1903 were burned or maybe not microfilmed, or my father and his sister were not baptized. I can't find a marriage record for Francisco and Gorgonio either.

Thank you for your time; I appreciate it.

Emilie

Port Orchard, Washington State, USA

> From

Read full comment ➜

Comment

We have a Francisco Olague crist 21 sep 1872 son of Pedro Olague and Rafaela Feliz C600838 0445163 tepetongo Zacatecas.. I thik is the same born in Salitrillo because the parents are the same the second name of Rafaela Tinajero is Feliz... Rafaela Tinajero Feliz... they married 21 mar 1863 Tepetongo Zacatecas she is crist 23 oct 1843 daugter of Hilario Tinajero Feliz and Maria Teodosia de jesus Flores Feliz Suriano I think what Pedro Olague is Pedro Olague Torres born in 1831 tepetongo, son of Ysidro Olague and Norberta Torres C600834 film0445159 but for that you need see the married record of Rafaela and Pedro M606212 film 0445237
21 mar 1863 Tepetongo Zacatecas

Lety reynoso..tell us more about Gorgonia...

_________________________________________________________________
¿Te crees fan de Messenger? Compruébalo
www.vivirmessenger.com

Published by meef98367 – Thu, 2010-03-18 10:30 | Permalink

Comment

Lety -

Yes, those are my great grandparents Pedro and Rafaela. They were from Tepetongo and Salitrillo. Pedro died in Mexico, but Rafaela came to the US with some of her sons and daughters and she died in Colorado in 1941. She lived to be almost 100 years old, but I don't remember her.

For some reason Rafaela and her brothers and sisters used various surnames from one record to another: Tinajero, Felix, Flores, Suriano, others. Hilario and Teodosia were her parents, but Pedro's parents in his marriage record were Jose Santiago Olague and Eduviges Suriano. Hilario also used different surnames: Tinajero, Felix. Some of the Felix Arellano changed their name to Tinajero---I don't know why.

I am also descended from the de la Torre, but that is way, way back.

I wish I could tell you more about Gorgonia, but she died when my father was still a baby, and all he knew about his mother was her name and the names of her parents. I have been looking for years for Gorgonia

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Dear Emilie:
Did you also check film 0439868? This film also had baptisms for 1903. I usually check the film before or after if the years are duplicated. They may have the 1st part of the year on one film, then the second on the other.
Worth a try if you have not already done so. By the way, my mother-in-law was also told the church records had burned, but lo and behold, the LDS had all the records on film for her family. I was happy to give her a copy of her baptism.

Maureen Bejar

Comment

Hi, Maureen,

Yes I have checked both 0439867 1899-1903) and 0439868 (1903-1907) and did not find my father. I did find some of his first cousins. I also checked the film for the Civil Registry 1081921 for 1903-1904 and found nothing, but then my father knew he hadn't been registered in the Civil Registry since he went there himself in 1965 and he had to pay a lawyer and the court to add him on.

Thanks,

Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mytmo@netnitco.net
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:54:28 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol in, Issue 16, 1903 Jerez Bapt
>
> Dear Emilie:
> Did you also check film 0439868? This film also had baptisms for 1903. I usually check the film before or after if the years are duplicated. They may have the 1st part of the year on one film, then the second on the other.
> Worth a try if you have not already done so. By the way, my mother-in-law was also told the church records had burned, but

Read full comment ➜

Published by oldcar53 – Wed, 2010-03-17 13:15 | Permalink

Comment

Irma,

That's great news that you benefitted from the help of someone who volunteered to help with someone's brick wall.

I hope to assist one of our newest members with the beginning of his research and while it might not be a "brick wall" per say, it is a wall.

In the beginning, you don't really have a clear path or idea  as to how to begin or proceed with your research, thus if feels like a brick wall.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Alicia

________________________________
From: "Gomezlucero, Irma"
To: "research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Wed, March 17, 2010 9:01:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Brick Walls---Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 16

I agree that this was a great idea to pose our brick walls to those who attended the conference.  As a member of the Nueva Galicia Genealogical Society, we have some of our brick walls posted on our website already. 
Earlier this month, I attended the Conference, and have already benefited from this exercise.  Another

Read full comment ➜

Trancripcion de Testamentos/ Testament Transcriptions

Published by paco_romo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Comments

Comment

Miguel gracias por la sugerencia te envio el Link para empezar cuanto
antes..

Gracias!!

http://www.romogutierrez.com/Transcripciones/

Espero nos sirva a todos!
Saludos!

--------------------------------------------------
From:
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:28 PM
To:
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] sugerencia.: grafias

> como bien comentas seria util tener una seccion de ayuda co palabras y
> frases, ademas seria util incluir las variaciones en las grafias o letras
> utilizadas por ejemplo:
> http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/node/17706
>
> Miguel Beltran

Claudia Casillas.

Published by Martha_Gomez –
Forums
Genealogy Research

CLAUDIA , QUE BUENO QUE HUBO ALGUIEN QUE SE PREOCUPARA POR LOS DOS IDIOMAS,

YO HABLO ESPANOL Y UN POCO DE INGLES PERO NO LO DOMINO MUCHO Y SIEMPRE QUE MIRO LOS E MAILS EN INGLES , EN OCASIONES LO

Comments

Published by arturoramos – Mon, 2010-03-22 05:54 | Permalink

Comment

See english translation below

Martha:

Aunque parezca un poco raro, la mayoría de los miembros de Nuestros Ranchos radicamos en EE.UU. Muchos de los miembros no hablan ni escriben español. Otros no hablan si escriben inglés, así que se nos hace la cosa difícil. Estoy de acuerdo contigo que los miembros como Claudia que pueden escribir en ambos idiomas y toman el tiempo para hacerlo son una bendición pero tampoco podemos requerir que todo el mundo escriba en ambos idiomas.

Lo que te recomienda Claudia es usar el servicio de traducción de Google:

http://www.translate.google.com

Puedes simplemente poner una dirección de web (nuestrosranchos.org) y te traduce las páginas mientras navegas. Así puedes leer los mensajes en inglés.

Gracias por tu participación.

-----------------
ENGLISH

Martha:

Although it seems a little odd, most members of Nuestros Ranchos live in the U.S. Many members do not speak or write Spanish. Others do not speak or write English, so it complicates the

Read full comment ➜

Published by Claudia_Reynoso – Sun, 2010-03-21 14:17 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Marta. Que bueno que te servira el servicio de Google en linea para traducir los idiomas.

Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
Forums
Genealogy Research

"One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mothe

Comments

Published by actapatio2007 (not verified) – Fri, 2010-03-05 09:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hello all,

I love to look at these coffin paintings from Fayum Egypt as a reminder of the wide dna sequences from the medittereanean and how those "looks" exist in us today.   These are Greco Roman era paintings from Egypt

http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/fayum-portrai…

Look at her eyes (1st painting)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

Anyone see someone they know?

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Casillas
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 7:45:27 AM
Subject: Re: Research Digest, Vol 50, Issue 4

"One My uncles has a circulatory problem that has a much higher incident rate in the jewish population.  my  in laws are from san miguel el alto and they have a skin disorder by they I mean my mother in law sister in law some of my wifes cousins and her brother get these skin discolorations, small blotches.  This is predominantly a jewish genetic disorder. There are other stories in los altos that point to a

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Hello-

I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel the mystery of who they are.

Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from the last few posts. These posts have not been put up to further our research, in fact they have probably disuaded many people reading them to just stop looking and feel ashamed, if they have jewish ancestry because of the myth of "clean blood". Well to thoe out there who are still looking -good luck and I am here if anyone wants help.

-Miri AKA Myriam, a jew

Comment

Buenas tardes, quisiera emitir mi humilde opinión respecto a los comentarios emitidos sobre si los alteños somos descendientes de judios.

Indudable es que desde el descubrimiento de América que coincide con la expulsión de musulmanes y judios de España en 1492 comienza un exodo de éstas personas al mundo mediterraneo y a los nuevos territorios recién descubiertos, éstos hombres y algunas mujeres pasaron en un principio a la Española, Cuba y las Antillas y de ahí a América Continental, muchos musulmanes y principalmente judios conversos pasaron a la Nueva España ello ha sido demostrado en grandes obras de investigación histórica como Los Judios en la Nueva España o la Inquisición en Nueva España por sólo mencionar a algunos. Es un hecho que muchos hombres de los primeros pobladores y conquistadores no fueran hidalgos sino conversos con purezas de sangre compradas tal vez inventadas, eso era algo usual, una pureza de sangre expedida por un cura o notario de pueblo no significaba que

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Comment

Any one else feel the need to kick a dead horse?

2010/3/9 Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez :
>
> Buenas tardes, quisiera emitir mi humilde opinión respecto a los comentarios emitidos sobre si los alteños somos descendientes de judios.
>
>
>
> Indudable es que desde el descubrimiento de América que coincide con la expulsión de musulmanes y judios de España en 1492 comienza un exodo de éstas personas al mundo mediterraneo y a los nuevos territorios recién descubiertos, éstos hombres y algunas mujeres pasaron en un principio a la Española, Cuba y las Antillas y de ahí a América Continental, muchos musulmanes y principalmente judios conversos pasaron a la Nueva España ello ha sido demostrado en grandes obras de investigación histórica como Los Judios en la Nueva España o la Inquisición en Nueva España por sólo mencionar a algunos. Es un hecho que muchos hombres de los primeros pobladores y conquistadores no fueran hidalgos sino conversos con purezas de sangre compradas tal vez inventadas, eso era

Read full comment ➜

Published by vicente de san… (not verified) – Sat, 2010-03-13 12:00 | Permalink

Comment

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?

En una investigación reciente,
se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
originarias del norte de África, mientras que el 20% provendría de los
ancestros judíos.

El estudio fue hecho
por Científicos de la Unidad de Biología Evolutiva de la Universitat Pompeu
Fabra de Barcelona, especializados en el estudio de la diversidad genética en
las poblaciones humanas. Han acometido la investigación más completa realizada
hasta ahora del ADN de

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Published by Ruben_Casillas – Sat, 2010-03-13 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:

De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de Los Altos de Jalisco.
Ni duda cabe que 700 años de Al andaluz, dejarían huella imborrable en la herencia de la población española de la península y de sus colonias o regiones conquistadas.
Pero, de que dimensión es el reducto judío en ¨la sangre¨ del ciudadano común español hoy en día, con todo y las expulsiones ordenadas en su tiempo por Chabela la católica?

En una  investigación reciente,
se establecía un perfil genético ibérico promedio en el que el 10.6% de los cromosomas de la
población española presenta características atribuibles a poblaciones
originarias del norte de

Read full comment ➜

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2010-03-13 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

En el pasado, Los judios, como los altenos en los ultimos 500 anos se casaban entre familia entonces la genetica de este grupo tiene sus dna markers. Es verdad que es una religion y no una raza pero cuando un grupo no mas se casa entre familia por muchos anos se puede ver el la genetica Nosotros en los alto, los que descendemos de los primeros pobladores tambien tenemos nuestras marcas en el dna.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: ruben casillas moreno
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 17:14:40
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Vicente, con todo respeto "el judaismo es una religión no una raza", en africa puedes encontrar judios negros.

Ruben Casillas M.

--- El sáb 13-mar-10, VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL escribió:

De:: VICENTE DE SAN MIGUEL
Asunto: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry
A: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Fecha: sábado, 13 de marzo de 2010, 12:57

Siempre es una delicia leer sus disertaciones en el ámbito histórico de

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Comment

Estimado Rubén en el judaismo raza y religión es lo mismo, el caso que usted mensiona es un accidente producido por la diáspora judia y crame que la mayoría de los judios son muy racistas y a eso se debe en gran medida su conservación a través del tiempo.

Es por eso que me causa un poco de extrañeza como mucha gente trata de ser un "poco" judio mediante la búsqueda de sus antepasados judios.

El judaismo, "lo judío" se transmite por vientre, es como la esclavitud, lo dá la mujer, es judío el hijo de la judía. Para ellos los hijos de un judio con una goi como ellos llaman a las personas no judias, son bastardos y nunca serán judíos por más méritos o conversiones que hagan. Esa forma de ver el mundo se asentúa más en las comunidades judías pequeñas como la de México que no supera los 60mil judíos en todo el país, no así en Estados Unidos en donde la propia sociedad y cultura facilitan la asimilación en cada una de las comunidades.

Hasta pronto.

Rodolfo Sinaí Gómez

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Published by vicente de san… (not verified) – Sun, 2010-03-14 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Muy estimado Rodolfo. Coincido con usted al cien por ciento.
Para Manuel Hernández Gómez del Colegio de Jalisco, en Los
Altos., Atotonilco y Teocaltiche se tuvieron los primeros asentamientos de judíos
conversos. En Tepatitlán, la cúpula de la parroquia de San Francisco está
rodeada de estrellas de David, símbolo del pueblo judío.

La influencia cultural judía está presente en el sistema patriarcal, donde el hombre más
viejo toma las decisiones en todos los órdenes respecto a su familia.

Asentado en su libro "La presencia judía en el México
colonial".Antes de que me destrocen a este autor como al Dr. Gutiérrez, les digo que de entrada los argumentos que expone me parecen blandengues., sin embargo, durante 16 años que trabajé para distintintas instituciones de crédito en Guadalajara, Los Altos y El Bajío, conocí muchísima gente hombres y mujeres que conservan rasgos morfológicos (sobre todo faciales), de extraordinario parecido con los israelitas de la actualidad. Claro, ellos son

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Published by Jaime_Alvarado – Sun, 2010-03-14 14:45 | Permalink

Comment

Estimados miembros de NR,
Tenia entendido que opiniones hacerca de este tema no iban a continuar en Foro de Investigacion, a reserva de aportaciones donde informacion bien documentada de caracter genealogico (nombres, fechas y lugares). Creo que opiniones de este tipo no tienen lugar en este foro, sino en el Foro General. Alguien lo dijo bien, hasta cuando vamos a "seguir pateando al caballo muerto?"

Dear members of NR,
I was under the impresion that specific guidelines were given regarding stop using the Research Forum to give opinion on the subject, and only use this Forum when well documented genealogical information (names, dates, and localities) is provided. I concur that there is no room for opinions in this specific Forum. Instead, they should be posted in the General Forum. Someone put it this way: For how long are we going to beat this dead horse?

Sincerely

Jaime

Comment

I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a little more of an open heart BUT it seems pretty clear that this group is not capable of that, as demonstrated from

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Comment

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line?  This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.

Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
source: church marriage record #0440059

________________________________
From: "eaherold@att.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 13, 2010 2:08:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion.  My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico.  One of these lines was through the Saldivar line.  The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
--
Esther A

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Comment

My Sanchez Navarro line goes toMelchora Sanchez Navarro, daughter of Juan Navarro and Maria Rodriguez, daughter of Baltazar Castano de Sosa, brother of Gaspar Castano de Sosa(explored New Mexico and captured by Inquisition) and Inez Rodriguez, daughter of Diego Montemayor and his wife Inez Rodriguez. Diego Montemayor was Carbajal's Lt Governor.
Castano de SOsa met Carbajal when he landed in Tampico and were his friends and came before him.

I also descend from Melchora's other sister's, Beatriz and Inez. Beatriz married (1)Alonso de Sosa Albernoz and had a daughter Ana de Sosa who married a Zaldivar. Inez married a Martinez who I believe came with Carbajal. His dna looks semetic.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line? This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera

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Comment

Luis Carbajal landed at Tampico in the mid 1500s. Most of his line was extinguished by the Inquisition about 1592. I descend from passengers that were with him when he landed. They came ffrom Portugal. SOme of his sisters married but their descendands did not carry the CUeva Carbahal name.
Some of his brothers escaped to Italy but changed their name to Lambrusco.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line? This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.
>
> Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
> Manuel de la Cueva y Carabajal
> parents: Lasaro de la Cueva and Juana Lopes, deceased
> with: Maria Magdalena Caldera, Espanola
> parents: Joseph Caldera and Alfonsa Ortis
> padrinos: Juan de Medrano and Xabal Roman
> source: church marriage record #0440059
>
>
>
> ______

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Comment

thank you Esther for checking for me.. I appreciate your efforts.

Linda in Marietta

________________________________
From: "eaherold@att.net"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sun, March 21, 2010 11:49:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Luis Carbajal landed at Tampico in the mid 1500s.  Most of his line was extinguished by the Inquisition about 1592.  I descend from passengers that were with him when he landed.  They came ffrom Portugal.  SOme of his sisters married but their descendands did not carry the CUeva Carbahal name.
Some of his brothers escaped to Italy but changed their name to Lambrusco.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from Erlinda Castanon-Long : --------------

Esther, do you know if this is part of your de la Cueva Carabajal line?  This record is from Jerez Zacatecas Mexico and the Caldera line goes back to Maria
> Cid Caldera, sister of El Capitan Miguel Caldera.
>
> Marriage: 5 June 1732 in Jerez
> Manuel de la

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Comment

Hello there Esther ,

It´s been awhile that you and I have talked . My interest in you mail is through the Saldivar line .

By any chance do you have the migration of the Saldivars that ended up in Nuevo Leon . My connection to them is through my GG Grandmother Maria Quirina Saldivar Gomez married to Candelario Alvarado . They married 26 of Oct. 1844 in the Villa de Santiago , Nuevo Leon .

Best to you ,

Welester

> I have traced my acestry to 2 different rabbis living in Spain before the expulsion. My actestors were members of the Carabajal de Cueva group that landed in Tampico and colonized NE Mexico. One of these lines was through the Saldivar line. The other was through my Morales line. Can't get more jewish than that.
> --
> Esther A. Herold

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925

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Comment

Miri,

Jose Esquibel has traced our Onate/Saldivar line to Abraham ha Levi and his son Solomon Ha Levi who were rabbis in Burgos, Spain. I know Solomon converted to Catholicism but I am looking for more information on the line. I know that Abraham was supposedly a friend of the King of Spain but do know know more than that. It wasn't the Abraham Ha Levi that was a poet. I think that one lived in a different part of Eurpoe.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the mystery of who they are.
> Also there really is no iron clad Jewish DNA, so if one does the research and finds that part of themselves then that should be the research that is presented. Also I would encourage those who do not understand and call it a "fantasy" to do more research with a

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Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2010-03-13 12:30 | Permalink

Comment

If I recall correctly they were businessmen with a highly regarded reputation of honesty and follow through.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: eaherold@att.net
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:16:29
To:
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jewish Ancestry

Miri,

Jose Esquibel has traced our Onate/Saldivar line to Abraham ha Levi and his son Solomon Ha Levi who were rabbis in Burgos, Spain. I know Solomon converted to Catholicism but I am looking for more information on the line. I know that Abraham was supposedly a friend of the King of Spain but do know know more than that. It wasn't the Abraham Ha Levi that was a poet. I think that one lived in a different part of Eurpoe.
--
Esther A. Herold

-------------- Original message from ferraristeph@gmail.com: --------------

> Hello-
> I have to say that I am so very dissapointed in most of the comments on this topic. No one should be attacked or belittled because they are trying to unravel
> the

Read full comment ➜

DNA Survey Participants Needed

Published by romero89 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi,

I recently took part in a survey about how DNA genealogy research has
affected me. They are particularly interest in people with different
ethnic influences in their background.

Español / English

Published by Eduardo_H_Seoane –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Pienso que muchas personas no están participando en este foro por falta del entendimiento del idioma ingles o español (castellano).

Comments

Published by Claudia_Reynoso – Sat, 2010-03-20 23:03 | Permalink

Comment

Para los miembros que solo escriben en español y gustarían participar mas seguido en este foro, pueden usar el servicio gratis de Google para traducir lo que no entienden (escrito en ingles), y también para traducir lo que quieran (escrito en español) antes de agregarlo al foro.
http://translate.google.com/#

Muy fácil si utilizan el COPY/PASTE. No sale perfecto, pero se puede entender mas-o-menos lo que quieren decir y habría mas participación.

[*Les pido me disculpen el español mal escrito, escribo mayormente en ingles.]

---
May I suggest using Google's free online translator?
http://translate.google.com/#

Jornalero

Published by Roxie4genealogy –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today?

Comments

Published by dpdelgadol – Sat, 2010-03-20 21:00 | Permalink

Comment

Roxanne,

I would like to add to Emily's response. It's true that "jornalero" is a very old word in Spanish. The words "jornal, jornada, jornalero" all derive from the same root word. Webster's unabridged dictionary shows that Old French had the words "journal, jornal, jurnal" and all meant "daily". The Latin word "dies = day" and "diurnalis = daily" eventually morphed into the Spanish words above. The English word "journey" used to mean a day's work. That meaning for journey is obsolete now. "Jornalero" simply means a person who works per "jornada". [Words can be interesting.]

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: roxanneocampo@sbcglobal.net
>Sent: Mar 20, 2010 7:44 PM
>To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jornalero
>
>Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today? I’ve heard several translations of this term including “day

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Published by meef98367 – Sat, 2010-03-20 17:15 | Permalink

Comment

I think day laborers have always existed. Jornal means "work by the day". Ranchers would farm out their temporary help wherever needed for the day or other time period, or those who didn't have land would travel around looking for work.

In New Mexico there is a place called Jornada del Muerto. It was a desert that took one day to cross in the 1500s to 1800s before fast cars, and you were dead if the Apaches caught you there or you died of thirst, etc. The Spaniards in the late 1500s named it that, so the term "jornalero" has been around for centuries.

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: roxanneocampo@sbcglobal.net
> Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:44:42 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Jornalero
>
> Would the term “Jornalero,” referenced in civil records from San Miguel el Alto, Jalisco during the late 1800’s, have the same translation today? I’ve heard several translations of this term including “day laborer,”and “agricultural

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Family Tree Maker in Spanish / Espaniol ?

Published by serna_david –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Is the program available in Espanol or what program is being used ?

Comments

Published by serna_david – Fri, 2010-03-19 05:44 | Permalink

Comment

David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts without addressing my original post of what Software is available to Espanol Speakers . I am using Family Tree Maker but it doesnt seem to be available in Spanish.

Comment

Yo tambien estaba frustrado al no poder encontrar un programa en Español. Finalmente encontre Myheritage, disponible gratis en www.myheritage.com. Este programa funciona en dozenas de idiomas, y puedes cambiar entre ellos en tiempo real. De forma que si necesitas un reporte en aleman, hebreo, ingles, frances o español, solamente seleccionas un incono con un bandera correspondiente al pais (=idioma) y listo.
Ahora, existen algunos inconvenientes, uno de ellos es que la compañia que lo vende hace su negocio con la version Premium que te da espacio de web para que publiques tu genealogia (con la gratis solo puedes tener acceso a publicar en su sitio de web 1000 individuos). Aunque no es my caro el servicio, yo preferiria comprar el programa, y no tener que pagar renta. Al no comprarlo, cotidianamente (cada semana), o cuando aumenta el tamano de tu genealogia, te aparece una ventana sugiriendo que compres Premium (el programa tiene otros beneficios no disponibles en la version gratis).

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Comment

A Spanish version of Legacy is in testing.

http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/InternationalLegacyVersions.asp

On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:44 AM, mooskies4@aol.com wrote:

David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts without addressing my original post of what Software is available to Espanol Speakers . I am using Family Tree Maker but it doesnt seem to be available in Spanish. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Nuestros Ranchos Research Mailing List

To post, send email to:
research(at)nuestrosranchos.org

To change your subscription, log on to:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org

Comment

You can go to FamilySearch.org and download a free copy of PAF 4.0 which
has a Spanish version that is not available on PAF 5.2

Puedes ir a FamilySearch.org para hacer download una copia gratis de PAF
4.0 que tiene una version en Espanol que no esta en el PAF 5.2

joseph

======================

Joseph Puentes
NoMeat@h2opodcast.com
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html (Vegan Environmental Solutions Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.com (Environmental Podcast)
http://h2opodcast.blogspot.com (Blog for above)
http://PleaseListenToYourMom.com (Women's Peace Podcast)
http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com (Latin American History Podcast)
http://nuestrosranchos.org (Jalisco, Zacatecas, and Aguascalientes
Genealogy)

Patti Wyble wrote:
> A Spanish version of Legacy is in testing.
>
> http://www.legacyfamilytree.com/InternationalLegacyVersions.asp
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2010, at 5:44 AM, mooskies4@aol.com wrote:
>
> David Serna Its curious How this post could have this many posts
without addressing my

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Published by Johnnypj – Sun, 2010-03-14 20:58 | Permalink

Comment

I have a question that I think I know the answer to, but I am hoping I am wrong.

I've traced a couple dozen Calvillo, Aguascalientes families back into the parish registers of Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa del Refugio, Zacatecas. So I find the baptisms of many people who were later married in Calvillo here. The baptisms start in 1747, but the marriages only go back to 1774.

So far, every search I have done in the IGI in an attempt to find marriages of known families in Santa Maria Mecatabasco inhabitants has failed. (I was hoping they were married in Ciudad de Aguascalientes or Teul, or somewhere else.) Would I be correct in assuming that the pre-1774 marriages are either lost or not filmed?

In tracing Calvillo families, half seem to go to the Ciudad de Aguascalientes and a quarter go to Cieneguilla or San Jose de Gracia, and another quarter go to Villa del Refugio. Is there any hope of finding that the pre-1774 marriage exist, or does this indeed represent an irretrievable

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Comment

Thanks for your response, Rose:

I have another question I thought you might have suggestions about.

As you know Cieneguilla baptisms are available from 1716 to 1814, no
marriages. Some Calvillo people back up into Cieneguilla pre-1772 and I
have found the marriages of some of these Cieneguilla in La Ciudad, so
I think Cieneguilla was part of La Ciudad's parish, just as it is still
part of that municipio. Would you agree that there probably are no
marriages for Cieneguilla?

Also, San Jose de Gracia, we have baptisms from 1733, but, here again,
no marriages. And here again, I suspect that perhaps the marriages
took place in La Ciudad, but perhaps I am wrong; maybe they are also
missing, just as the marriages for Santa Maria Mecatabasco.

The Calvillo records are wonderful; it's just terrible that so many of
the people from Calvillo come from places where we don't have marriage
records available to help us put a complete puzzle together.

So, again, if anyone has any

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Comment

Hi John,
I like many research the area known as "El Valle de Huejucar" this makes upTabasco down to Huanusco and Jalpa then to Calvillo. I believe therecords start in 1747. Prior to that people, it is interesting, as you may recallTabasco received people from Aguascalientes, Calvillo, Nochistlan, Jalpa,Tlatanengo, Villanueva and Teocaltiche. All sorts of places, I never found outwhat was the cause of going to Tabasco while just going to their nearby parish.I do believe La Cieneguilla was parto f Aguascalientes parish, since in recordsit says "jurrisdiction of this parish". The hacienda of Cienguilla had of course itsown chapel but it did not meant it was its own parish. Try looking for the marriagesin Aguascalientes. Marriages were probably seen more important thus it might havebeen more proper to go to the city. We ought to also remember the priestwould travel around and preform rites.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www

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Published by Johnnypj – Sun, 2010-03-14 20:51 | Permalink

Comment

My compliments to Rose Hardy and Dave Valdez for the spectacular resource, "A Genealogical Look at the 1648 Padron of Aguascalientes." It's a real prize.

I am writing to ask if anyone has any information about the first Gallegos to come to Nueva Galicia. I'm researching the Calvillo Gallegos, most of whom appear to be descended from Jose Joaquin Gallegos (born March 21, baptized April 8, 1731, Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes), son of Vicente Gallegos and Rosa Lopez de Nava.

I know that any of you who have done research on Gallegos know that Vicente Gallegos was the son of Domingo Gallegos and Josefa Ramirez, who were married in 1692, and that Domingo was the son of Gabriel Gallegos. These people were mentioned in Retonos.

I am not clear where they came from España or when they came to Santa Maria de los Lagos and then Aguascalientes. If anyone has more information than I do, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks.

John P. Schmal

Comment

I will look up my research on gallegos but if I recall correctly the gallegos that I have traced came from santa maria de los lagos and descended from hernando martel
------Original Message------
From: Johnnypj@aol.com
Sender: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
ReplyTo: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Gallegos of Calvillo and Ciudad de Aguascalientes
Sent: Mar 14, 2010 8:51 PM

My compliments to Rose Hardy and Dave Valdez for the spectacular resource, "A Genealogical Look at the 1648 Padron of Aguascalientes." It's a real prize.

I am writing to ask if anyone has any information about the first Gallegos to come to Nueva Galicia. I'm researching the Calvillo Gallegos, most of whom appear to be descended from Jose Joaquin Gallegos (born March 21, baptized April 8, 1731, Cieneguilla, Aguascalientes), son of Vicente Gallegos and Rosa Lopez de Nava.

I know that any of you who have done research on Gallegos know

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Comment

While on the topic of the Gallegos family: I have this family, Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojosborn ca. 1665 in Aguascalientes who married Juana Gallegos sometime ca. 1690. Juana Gallgoswas from Santa Maria de los Lagos. She is sometimes seen as Juana Gallegos (her son ManuelAlonso de los Hinojos' marriage; my ancestor) then in the death of her son Franciscoshe lis listed as Juana de Amador, also in most of her children's baptism Amador is dominant.Then in her daughter Maria's death she is listed as Juana Gutierrez. All her kids were born in Lagosde Moreno. I know for a fact this is the same Juana! I have studied her kids. Bartolome is alwayslisted as Bartolome Alonso de los Hinojos. I wonder id Juana is a relative of Gabriel Gallegos,she could be a daughter? I just dont know how she used three last names!
Juana Gutierez de AmadorJuana GutierrezJuana de AmadorJuana Gallegos.
Regards,Daniel
Any help?

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www

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Sernas-Esparsa-Ruis of La Presa Ags.- Tabasco-Agostaero-Jalpa / Opinions on the Path of Origin & Direction of Settlement.

Published by serna_david –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I am asking for researchers opinions and supporting records for the paths of Sernas Origin in these areas.

Comments

Published by oldcar53 – Sat, 2010-03-20 11:30 | Permalink

Comment

Mooskies,

I don't know what your name is, therefore I'll address you by your e-mail name.

I do have some Serna's in my files from Nochistlan, Zac and while I'm not related to them they are prominent. They originally came from La Leonera near Jalpa Zacatecas. La Leonera was a mining community, so you might want to look deeper into Jalpa and Nochistlan Zacatecas and maybe even Juchipila.

Alicia,
San Jose, Calif

________________________________
From: "mooskies4@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sat, March 20, 2010 7:41:01 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Sernas-Esparsa-Ruis of La Presa Ags.- Tabasco-Agostaero-Jalpa / Opinions on the Path of Origin & Direction of Settlement.

I am asking for researchers opinions and supporting records for the paths of Sernas Origin in these areas.
The lines I have in my database of 3000 people, from 1790 to 1900 which is 95% + only from the Calvillo, Ags. church records.
The Sernas of My Direct lines early records came from

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Published by Rose_Hardy – Sat, 2010-03-20 08:31 | Permalink

Comment

David

Like you there is a "black hole" in my research as well. Until the Jalisco and Zacatecas go online I am waiting. Once they go online I will tackle areas surrounding Calvillo to the west, north and south. I am even considering Sierra de Pinos. I have already gone through every film in Aguascalientes.

Just like what I'm doing in Sonora right now, I have a cousin who I am working with. We have several surnames we are tackling....we are taking a town or two at a time, selecting a time period and scouring the films until we go through them all looking for our lines....process of elimination as a team.

I have found one of my Calvillo lines in Calvillo coming from Tepatitlan, Jalisco. So that is another area that I will be looking into.

Sometimes are no easy answers in genealogy...I've been doing this for 20 years, before there were digital records and Nuestros Ranchos....but ordering films by the hundreds.

Rose

Update on my researchl

Published by paris2008 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I was able to get a copy of my maternal grandfather's

Comments

Published by siriuslr – Thu, 2010-03-18 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

Where is señor del Encino Parish? your search finish on this names? L.Reynoso

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: mendozafowler@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:42:08 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Update on my researchl
>
> I was able to get a copy of my maternal grandfather's
> (Telesforo Valades Cruz) baptismal certificate. He was born Jan. 5, 1866 and baptized at El Senor Del Encino Parish on the same day. The certificate gives the names of his parents: Guillermo Valades and Maria Del Refugio Cruz. It also gives the names of his paternal and maternal grandparents. His paternal grandparents were Manuel Valades and Ciriaca Marchan. His maternal grandparents were Macsimo Cruz and Maria Gertrudis Segovia. I wanted to pass on this information in case anyone else was doing any research on these names.
>
> Maria

Comment

Here is some possible info. on Maria del Refugio Cruz:
NameBirth or ChristeningDeath or BurialSpouseParents

Ma. Mucia Del Refugio Cruz
Segovia
[image: Four Stars]13 May 1832
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico

Maximo Cruz
Gertrudis Segovia
Source type: Other, Media type: Microfilm, Repository name: Family History
Library, Repository address: 35 N West Temple Street, Repository city: Salt
Lake City, Repository state: UT, Repository country: USA, Repository postal
code: 84150, Call number: 0299468, Event date: , Sheet number: 00, Reference
number: 0299468, Batch number: C604813, Serial number: 01651, Place: El
Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Ags County, Mexico, Time period: 1831-1832,
Contributor: EXTRACTION, Contributor of repository: FCH

This might be a sister:
Serapiona Cruz Zegovia
[image: Four Stars]18 November 1837
El Sagrario,Aguascalientes,Aguascalientes,Mexico

Macsimo Cruz
Gertrudis Zegovia
Source type: Other, Media type: Microfilm, Repository name: Family History

Read full comment ➜

Cuquio, Jal. batch number

Published by RaquelRuiz –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

Can anyone tell me the batch numbers baptisms for Cuquio for 1813 onwards? Thanks!

Comments

Published by Sergio – Fri, 2010-03-19 17:02 | Permalink

Comment

Is there a batch number for Cuquio bautisms 1627-1686? The film number is 0226646. I could not find it in the films section.

Thanks,
Sergio Gutierrez

Comment

Sergio
El film #0226646 corresponde a la ciudad de Nochistlan Zacatecas. Existen dos batch #'s J600711 para boys y K600711 para girls
los puedes ver en http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/es/films/Zacatecas/2034
Si dentro de ese film existe algun ancestro de tu interes,que quieras tener copia de ese documento yo con gusto te mando una copia, creo que todavia tengo axceso a ese microfilm.
Jose Luis felix
Lake Mathews CA.

> To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: xalos68@hotmail.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:01:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cuquio, Jal. batch number
>
> Is there a batch number for bautisms 1627-1686? The film number is 0226646.
>
> Thanks,
> Sergio Gutierrez

Published by arturoramos – Thu, 2010-03-18 14:55 | Permalink

Comment

Raquel:

Please see the "Films" section of the website... all of the confirmed batch numbers for our three states plus a couple more are listed there and the database provides a direct link for each batch to the familysearch.org database so you can see the index for the given batch.

http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/films

Nicolas Valdez Guerrero

Published by barb9736 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi,
I am researching the Guerrero surname, particularly that of my maternal grandfather, Nicolas Valdez Guerrero.

Comments

Published by Maureen_Bejar – Mon, 2010-03-15 20:22 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Barbara:
Have you searched for the border crossing of Nicolas on ancestry.com? Many libraries have this service with no charge. It may list other family members crossing with him and his last known address or other particulars.
Did you know if his brother was a priest in the US or Mexico? There are many websites dedicated to Catholic Priests and Nuns, sometimes listing their parents, etc. If Arizona, try googling Arizona Catholic Priests Guerrero. You just never know.

Good Luck in your search.

Maureen

Comment

Thanks, I'll give it a try. His brother was a priest in Guadalajara. I got border crossing info from Ancestry.com but some of it isn't legible.

Dear Barbara:
Have you searched for the border crossing of Nicolas on ancestry.com? Many libraries have this service with no charge. It may list other family members crossing with him and his last known address or other particulars.
Did you know if his brother was a priest in the US or Mexico? There are many websites dedicated to Catholic Priests and Nuns, sometimes listing their parents, etc. If Arizona, try googling Arizona Catholic Priests Guerrero. You just never know.

Good Luck in your search.

Maureen

Comment

Barbara,

Did you see the Border Crossing Records for Nicolas Guerrero where he states on several crossings that he was born in Ahualulco, Jalisco in 1898?

Since you gave his name as Nicolas Valdez Guerrero, I looked in the Pilot Family Search and found two children born to a Jesus Guerrero and a Felipa Valdez. They are not listed in the regular IGI. Maria Dolores was christened on 04 APR 1900 in Ahualulco de Mercado, Jalisco in 1900, and her brother Alfonso was baptized on 09 APR 1894 also in Ahaululco. There is no listing for a Nicolas or others born to those parents, but they may have been baptized elsewhere.

The film number for Alfonso is 282305, and the film number for Maria Dolores is 282306. Their grandparents are not listed.

I think the people doing the indexes are quite overwhelmed right now, so we won't find some people listed even if they have stated in some records where and when they were born. Also some late 1890s and early 1900s records may

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Emilie,

Thanks. I appreciate your help. I will look into these records & utilize your suggestions. I had seen the border crossing record & I printed a copy for my records. I've printed a copy of your email as well. It'll be a great guide.

Sincerely,

Barbara Guerrero

Comment

Emilie,

I found the town of Ahualulco. I had the name misspelled. I had Ahualulca so when I would do a search nothing would come up. I also thought that perhaps it had been misspelled on the border crossing record, so I had found Yahualica & tried that one & I was wrong. Now that I have it right I will order the films from the FHC. I am hopeful that I will find him.

Thanks again for the information. I'll keep you posted.

Barbara Guerrero

Comment

Wonderful, Barbara----Good luck----Emilie

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: barbaraguerrero9736@msn.com
> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:17:03 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nicolas Guerrero
>
> Emilie,
>
> I found the town of Ahualulco. I had the name misspelled. I had Ahualulca so when I would do a search nothing would come up. I also thought that perhaps it had been misspelled on the border crossing record, so I had found Yahualica & tried that one & I was wrong. Now that I have it right I will order the films from the FHC. I am hopeful that I will find him.
>
> Thanks again for the information. I'll keep you posted.
>
> Barbara Guerrero

Race Issues: Re - Jewish Ancestry

Published by makas_nc –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

I would like for you all to take ALL discussions that center around Race
or Ethnicity to the general list: general@nuestrosranchos.org

I would prefer that many of these topics be quickly take

Comments

Published by Johnnypj – Sun, 2010-03-14 23:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Aguascalientes researchers:

I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person

JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
Born: Circa 1786
Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes

A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:

In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
the 7th of October, legitimate son of Juan Serna and Merced Medina,
residents of Agostadero
Abuelos Paternos: Francisco de la Serna and Maria Flores
Abuelos Maternos: Francesca Masias.

Apparently around 1802, Jose Manuel de la Serde/Serna married Maria
Trinidad Aguilera (daughter of Santiago Aguilera and Maria Lucrecia
Calvillo). She died circa 1849 (after which her husband remarried at
60+ years of age)

I am interested in knowing if anyone has traced this Serna family

Read full comment ➜

Comment

The people who went to Calvillo, some were from El Agostadero (I have several lines)
this rancho El Agostadero is just outside between Jalpa and Huanusco.
Regards,Daniel
To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:34:31 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna/Serda and Aguilar in Calvillo
>
> Hello Aguascalientes researchers:
>
> I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person
>
> JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
> Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
> Born: Circa 1786
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
> Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
>
> A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:
>
> In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
> 1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
> the 7th of

Read full comment ➜

Comment

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am stuck on.....I'm waiting for the Zacatecas records to go digital to see if they are there.

Rose

Comment

Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
early Serda's in Aguascalientes:

JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents:
Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE

JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
C604763 1684 - 1691 0299423 Film NONE

Are these two the same as the Lopez de Serda's in Lagos? I suspect the
lines I am tracing (Serna/Serda/Serde) may back into them, but that's
where I'm stuck right now.

John Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have

Read full comment ➜

Comment

The Serda (Cerda) from Aguascalientes and Lagos should be the same family, Lopes de la Serda, they originally came from San Luis Potosi.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; rosehardy@hotmail.com; general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:26:20 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna
>
> Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
> early Serda's in Aguascalientes:
>
> JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
> Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
> Mexico
> Parents:
> Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
> Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
> C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE
>
> JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
> Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
> Mexico
> Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
> Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
> C604763 1684 - 1691

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thanks for the info, Rose. I have right here two examples of very
early Serda's in Aguascalientes:

JUAN SERDA BIELMA Pedigree
Christening: 05 APR 1654 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents:
Father: NICOLAS DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: MARIA DE BIELMA
C604761 1616 - 1660 0299421 Film NONE

JUAN SERDA BARGAS Pedigree
Christening: 25 JUN 1684 El Sagrario, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes,
Mexico
Parents: Father: JUAN DE LA SERDA Family
Mother: LORENSA DE BARGAS
C604763 1684 - 1691 0299423 Film NONE

Are these two the same as the Lopez de Serda's in Lagos? I suspect the
lines I am tracing (Serna/Serda/Serde) may back into them, but that's
where I'm stuck right now.

John Schmal

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I would love to see La Ciudad de Aguascalientes records and San Jose de
Gracia records from the 1700s to go digital, but I have a feeling the
emphasis is on 1800s, and that they may not go digital for years.

Let's cross our fingers.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I would love to see La Ciudad de Aguascalientes records and San Jose de
Gracia records from the 1700s to go digital, but I have a feeling the
emphasis is on 1800s, and that they may not go digital for years.

Let's cross our fingers.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names....like Munos de Hermosillo (one of my family lines) is
now just Munoz(s).

I have not seen the names you mention but have about 3 Calvillo lines
and I do have a Loera (Luera) line from Mecatabasco.

In regards to the Agostadero, there is one by Sierra de Pinos. I have
family members from Agostadero (which one?)....and these are lines I am

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Rose, do you have this Loera linen from Calvillo?

FRANCISCO LOERA -- Son of Jose Esteban Loera and Rosalia Romo

JOSÉ ESTEBAN LOERA -- Son of Antonio Eugenio Loera and Anna Gertrudis
Muños - married January 9, 1788

ANTONIO EUGENIO LOERA -- Son of Florencio de Loera and Maria de San
Juan Villalobos -- Married: October 6, 1765 in La Ciudad.

I deadend at Florencio. I saw him listed a couple times as Orencio as a
parent, but can't seem to get beyond this point. If you or anyone else
has this line, I'd love to know if you have made more progress beyond
this.

Thanks.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: rosehardy@hotmail.com
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2010 5:41 pm
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] del la Serda/Serna

John

The name that comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's. Some where
in Aguascalientes but they seem to have come from Teocaltiche. Just a
thought since it's around this time that families started to drop their
extended names

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Here is some information I found online, good luck!

Aqui hay información que encontre en linea, buena suerte!
Escolastico Antto. Ramon Loera
Billa
[image: Four Stars]25 March 1748
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Orencio Loera
Maria Billa Lovor
Maria Antta. Bitorina Rosalia Loera
Villalobos
[image: Four Stars]29 January 1752
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Orencio Loera
Maria Villalobos
Joseph Raphael Loera
Villa
[image: Four Stars]16 November 1756
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manl. Orencio De Loera
Petra Villa Lobos
Joseph Antonio Loera
Billalobos
[image: Four Stars]29 April 1760
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manuel Loera
Petra Billalobos
Manl. Loera Villalovos
[image: Four Stars]2 July 1758
Santa Maria Mecatabasco,Villa Del Refugio,Zacatecas,Mexico

Manl. De Loera
Petra Maria Villalovos
Mra. Guadalupe Loera
Villalovos
[image: Four Stars]1 January 1777
San

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Has anyone done research on the Alfaro surname in Sombrerete,
Zacatecas? I've done some research back a couple hundred years, but I
have some gaps and a somewhat jagged puzzle. Would be interested in
knowing if anyone else has tackled that surname in that place.

John Schmal

Comment

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol from the Chicago metro area. My Family is also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know how to get there but would have to drive me there.
My relation to this line is as follows. Jose Manuel Serna b. abt 1786> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817 > Favian Serna b. 1848, > Sabas Serna Died aft. 1926 > Hija Guadalupe Serna b. 1902 La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro (b. Media Luna, 1902). Married 1926, Calvillo.

> del email de David Serna; Mooskies4 en AOL del área del metro de Chicago. Mi familia también decended de Sernas de soto del Arroyo; Agostadero. Estaba Platicando con mi tío y discutí la localización exacta de Agostadero. Él dice que él sabe conseguir allí pero que tendría que conducirme allí. Mi relación directa del descendiente a esta línea está como sigue. Nacido 1786 Jose Manuel Serna .;> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817

Read full comment ➜

Comment

There is a El Agostadero at Mascota, Jalisco, and another at
San Juan de Los Lagos,Jalisco. By viewing these sites, you
ought to determine the one you are looking for.
I was unable to locate Arroyo de Soto.
Hope this helps/hs

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol  from the Chicago metro area. My Family is also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know how to get there but would have to drive me there. My  relation  to this line is as follows. Jose Manuel Serna b. abt 1786> Florentino Serna b.abt. 1817   > Favian Serna b. 1848,   > Sabas Serna Died aft. 1926  >    Hija Guadalupe Serna  b. 1902 La Presa Se Caso con me Tio Genaro (b. Media Luna, 1902). Married 1926, Calvillo.
> del email de David Serna; Mooskies4 en AOL del área del metro de Chicago. Mi familia también decended de Sernas de soto del Arroyo; Agostadero. Estaba Platicando  con mi tío y discutí la localización

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Arroyo de Soto is

Southwest of Calvillo (on the way to Jalpa)
Southeast of Tabasco
Directly east of Huanusco
Right near the border of Zacatecas and Aguascalientes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Santos Luna
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org; mooskies4@aol.com
Sent: Fri, Mar 19, 2010 9:02 am
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna / Agostadero / Calvillo

David: At the site PublosAmerica.com
There is a El Agostadero at Mascota, Jalisco, and another at
San Juan de Los Lagos,Jalisco. By viewing these sites, you
ought to determine the one you are looking for.
I was unable to locate Arroyo de Soto.
Hope this helps/hs

David Serna email > Mooskies4 at aol  from the Chicago metro area. My Family is
also decended from Sernas From Arroyo de soto & Agostadero. I was just togeather
with my uncle and discussed the exact location of Agostadero. He says he know
how to get there but would have to drive me there. My  relation  to this line is
as

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Just a thought about the de la Serna/Serda line....what comes to my mind are the Lopez de la Serda's from Teocaltiche. Just a thought...

I have not see the names you mention but I do have about 3 lines of Calvillo's and a Loera line in Calvillo

> To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 02:34:31 -0400
> From: johnnypj@aol.com
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Serna/Serda and Aguilar in Calvillo
>
> Hello Aguascalientes researchers:
>
> I've been tracing the Serna family of Calvillo back to this person
>
> JOSE MANUEL DE LA SERNA
> Son of Juan M Lopez de la Serde and Merced Medina
> Born: Circa 1786
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
> Married: October 31, 1852 (2nd Marriage to Refugio de Loera)
> Place: Calvillo, Aguascalientes
>
> A brother of this man was baptized in 1798 as follows:
>
> In the Parish Church of San Jose de Huejucar on the 14th of October of
> 1798. Father Joaquin de Palos baptized Jose Brigido, Español, born on
> the 7th of October

Read full comment ➜

Comment

David Serna e mail Mooskies4 at aol.

Im curious if you have the same information as me for the son. Florentino age 24, Married Trinidad Lopez. August 12 1842,
She died and at age 36, He Married Maria Guadalupe Estrada About 1853
She died and at age 50 he Married Jorga Rodrigues December 27 1868.

Santelices, Valderrama...

Published by alicebb –
Forums
Genealogy Research

       Dear Group,
       This research done on my maternal grandmother, Agustina Santelices, was done  through FHC microfilms and their online resources.

Comments

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2010-03-17 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

--- On Mon, 3/15/10, Alice Blake wrote:

From: Alice Blake
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM

I'm sending this out again.  I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response.  Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors?  Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos, Jalos, Lagos de Moreno (just a few townships that come to mind), you're out of luck.  I believe I've tried all resources on line and at the FHC, but I'm not sure, that's why I ask for the group's expertise.   Thanks again for your help,      Alice
     
       Dear Group,
       This research done on my maternal grandmother, Agustina Santelices, was done  through FHC microfilms and their online resources.  I've never found a connection with 
       anyone in the group, but I  remind

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I got to admit you may be right, the usual discussion is Los Altos,any alteno people those who married into Aguascalientes, and Zacatecasmaybe Guanajuato. IT seems were all around the topic of Los Altosde Jalisco, the keystone perhaps.
Regards,Daniel

To learn more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saintsplease visit www.mormon.org

> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:06:05 -0700
> From: alicebb@att.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Alice Blake wrote:
>
>
> From: Alice Blake
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM
>
>
> I'm sending this out again. I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response. Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors? Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Alice,

Hang in there .... I know it seems frustrating but we all have lines that we
can't seem to connect to anyone in the group. We just have to keep trying.

-Angelina-

Comment

 Dear Angelina,
Thank you for your encouraging words.  As frustrating as it is, I don't plan on quitting.  I was just hoping I wasn't re-inventing the wheel!   Thanks again,   Alice

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Angelina Markle wrote:

From: Angelina Markle
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 1:28 AM

Alice,

Hang in there .... I know it seems frustrating but we all have lines that we can't seem to connect to anyone in the group. We just have to keep trying.

-Angelina-

Comment

Alice, I'd really try but I didn't get another information like yours don't worry be patient.. I'm in the group many time ago and I still have 3 of my 4 lines only in my ggreatfather.. like 1890 can you Believe that? many people of here like me have searches in many places, Oaxaca, Chihuahua, Guanajuato, Monterrey, Campeche, Tamaulipas, Veracruz...but if I don't found anything I don't send a message..be sure many people are searching for your lines with your same luck. sorry about my english Lety Reynoso

>
> From: Alice Blake
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Monday, March 15, 2010, 9:10 PM
>
>
> I'm sending this out again. I'm not sure that it got out, because I received zero response. Am I to believe that no one in this group has any info on these ancestors? Although the group is for those researching in the three MX states, after three years of membership, I get the feeling that unless you're from Los Altos

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Dear Lety,
It's true, that many of our ancestors from Jalisco, Aguas, and Zac. originated from other states, so I think that we are all somewhat in the same situation--searching other Mexican states!   Thank you for your response, your English is terrific as is your heart.   Alice  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, leticia reynoso wrote:

From: leticia reynoso
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: "s s"
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 2:46 AM

Alice, I'd really try but I didn't get another information like yours don't worry be patient.. I'm in the group many time ago and  I still have 3 of my 4 lines only in my ggreatfather.. like 1890 can you Believe that? many people of here  like me have  searches in many places, Oaxaca, Chihuahua, Guanajuato, Monterrey, Campeche, Tamaulipas, Veracruz...but if I don't found anything I don't send a message..be sure many people are searching for your lines with your same luck. sorry about my english Lety Reynoso

>
> From: Alice

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I found these two entries online on *Pares.mcu.es* These might be your
ancestors. it would be really awesome if they were because one of the
documents is a suite over Hidalguia and the other is a suite over property.
Anyway good luck! There is probably additional info. I just don't have time
to keep on looking. This search took about ten minutes already. You'll have
to do some more research to find out if these are your ancestors or not.

Texto de búsqueda Tomas santelices , del Archivo Archivo de la Real
Chancillería de Valladolid , dentro de la unidad Real Audiencia y
Chancillería de Valladolid

*RESUMEN:*
Título de la unidad: "Pleito de Manuela de Santelices, de Santander
(Cantabria)
José de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
Tomás de Santelices, de Santander (Cantabria)
José Antonio de Ulibarri, de Santander (Cantabria) Sobre Restitución a
Manuela, José y Tomás de Santelices, hijos de José de Santelices, de los
bienes de Plácida de Santelices, su hermana, fallcida en edad

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Comment

This might be information on your Francisco Santelices Good luck!
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Name: Jose Maria De Jesus Fransisco Santeliz Rubio
Gender: Male
Christening date: 08 Feb 1842
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO, QUERETARO, MEXICO
Residence: Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico
Birth date:
Birthplace:
Death date:
Name note:
Race or color (expanded):
Father's name: Jose Maria Santeliz
Father's birthplace:
Father's age:
Mother's name: Agustina Rubio
Mother's birthplace:
Mother's age:
Paternal grandfather's name:
Paternal grandmother's name:
Maternal grandfather's name:
Maternal grandmother's name:
Batch number: C64174-3
Date range: 1840 - 1847
Record group: Mexico-VR
Film number: 247929
Collection: Mexico Baptisms 1700-1900

and these two might be a sisters?

Groom's name: Trinidad Santelices
Groom's birth date: 1833
Groom's birthplace:
Groom's age in years: 25
Bride's name: Concepcion Chinchon
Bride's birth date: 1833
Bride's birthplace:
Bride's age in years: 25

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Comment

Dearest Eduardo,
That's him!!!  I had traced his seven siblings, but couldn't find Francisco's info.  I had found Santelices, Santelises, and Santelizes, variations the siblings, but it NEVER occured to me to try Santeliz!   How absolutely wonderful!  Since my Spanish isn't that great, I'll get back to you later after I've had a chance to dicipher and digest the awesome PARES email you sent earlier.  You haven't just made my day, you've made my ancestrial quest that much more rewarding.   Thank you again, and I'll be in touch.    Alice  

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Eduardo Seoane wrote:

From: Eduardo Seoane
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices, Valderrama...
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 5:41 PM

This might be information on your Francisco Santelices Good luck!
Saludos desde Lago Salado,
Eduardo H Seoane

Name: Jose Maria De Jesus Fransisco Santeliz Rubio
Gender: Male
Christening date: 08 Feb 1842
Christening place: SANTIAGO, QUERETARO

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Comment

Sorry Alice,
I did not try Santiliz either. I went to Pilot.FamilySearch.org and did an
Advanced search for Francisco, no surname with a mother by the name of
Agustina Rubio. I did not add the father because occasionally the mothers
information is the only name that appears because of naturally born
children. By the way, I had looked for the father and several other
combinations before I got lucky. I am glad I was able to help ;•)
Saludos desde Lago Salado (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Eduardo H Seoane

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Alice Blake wrote:

> Dearest Eduardo,
> That's him!!! I had traced his seven siblings, but couldn't find
> Francisco's info. I had found Santelices, Santelises, and
> Santelizes, variations the siblings, but it NEVER occured to me to try
> Santeliz! How absolutely wonderful! Since my Spanish isn't that great,
> I'll get back to you later after I've had a chance to dicipher and
> digest the awesome PARES email you sent earlier. You haven't just made my

Read full comment ➜

Santelices

Published by dpdelgadol –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Dear Alice,

I tried and located the following information.

Comments

Published by alicebb – Wed, 2010-03-17 22:00 | Permalink

Comment

Dear David,
Thank you so much!  It's interesting that I have the info from Juan Fermin Santelices' matrimonial entry film #0247978 as marrying Maria Luiza Sepulbeda on 02/27/1793 in Santiago, Queretaro, Queretaro, not Guanajuato!  It further states that Juan Fermin is from Santander, Castilla, and named his parents Tomas de Santelices and Antonia Ybanes.  Opening up another unknown--how to reseach Spain!!!  Any guidance would be appreciated.  Again, thank you and I'll order Maria Luiza's entry and get her parents.  YEA!    Alice   
 
-- On Thu, 3/18/10, David P. Delgado wrote:

From: David P. Delgado
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 3:24 AM

Dear Alice,

I tried and located the following information.  I hope it helps you.

Maria Luisa Sepulbeda married Juan Fermin Sante Elises 27 Feb 1793 Nuestra Señora De Los Dolores, Dolores Hidalgo, Guanajuato, Mexico  film #0710685, M607828 (1787-1825.

David in Albany

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Comment

Alice,
Pertaining to research in Spain and to expand on Eduardo's PARES info.
Santander is now part of Cantabria which is why you see Cantabria in
parentheses for the PARES results. Also, there are films for Santander -
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.as…
You might also see if Antonio Castejón. maruri2004@euskalnet.net can find
some info for you. He has a website for Spanish, Basque, and Asturian
genealogies. http://www.euskalnet.net/laviana/
There is also a Yahoo group for Cantabria -
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/gencantabria/ You can post and search there
for Santelices.
If you find out some of your Santelices ancestors were in País Vasco there
are Registros Sacramentales at http://snae.org/sacramentales.es.php
My line moved from Vizcaya to Santander (Cantabria) for one generation.
I also found this site for genealogical studies for

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Comment

  Dear Armando,  
  This is just the kind of help I needed to proceed my search into Spain!  Thanks to yourself and other knowledgable members of the group, I now feel that I've got many resources to utilize.   I'd like to ask you what I should make of the fact that the marriage of Juan Fermin Sante Elizes (another spelling variation I'd never seen before!) to Maria Luiza Sepulbeda was recorded in two different churches in two different cities (Guanajuato and Queretero), on the same day 27, Feb 1793?  Does this happen often, and which do I take as the real deal?   Thanks again, 
Alice   

--- On Thu, 3/18/10, Armando wrote:

From: Armando
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Santelices
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 6:13 PM

Alice,
Pertaining to research in Spain and to expand on Eduardo's PARES info.
Santander is now part of Cantabria which is why you see Cantabria in
parentheses for the PARES results. Also, there are films for Santander  -
http:/

Read full comment ➜

Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

Published by Cortes –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have added a marriage record between Apolonio Cortez and Dionicia Herrea in my folder. Can someone please help me transalte this marriage record. I'm having a hard time reading it.

Comments

Published by siriuslr – Wed, 2010-03-17 13:15 | Permalink

Comment

En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la misa.....por.......los .... de este acto Ramon Lopez y Modesto Gomez el primero de dichos contrayentes ha de estar soltero , de 20 años de Edad originario de esta Villa vecino de Matanzas? hijo legitimo de Felipe Cortés y Jacoba Rodriguez que viven y la ____ de quince años, originaria y vecina de____ hija legitima de Serafin Herrera y Felipa Campos que viven.Fueron Padrinos Eduardo Perez y Maria ___ Morales y para constancia la firma del señor cura Luis

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Comment

Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.

Thanks a lot.

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:14 PM
To: s s
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos sacramentos de penitencia y Sagrada comunión yo Presbitero Refugio L. y Ortiz... con licencia del parrocoasisti al matrimonio que celebraron por palabras de presente ------------------------------.Apolonio Cortes y Dionisia Herrera a quienes di bendiciones nupciales y apliqué la

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Comment

Maybe is Serafin or Serapio

> From: Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
> Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:14 PM
> To: s s
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
>
> En la Parroquia de San Jose de Ojuelos el 25 feb ? de 1878....fueron a______ y la .. por concilio del Evento que le fueron veinti... de enero y dos y tres de febrero actual previo al ---------de la doctrina cristiana y la preparacion de los santos

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Comment

I will look under both names.

Maria Cortes (HRIS Administrator)
Trinity Industries
Maria.Cortes@trin.net
Phone 214-589-8036
Fax 214-589-8810

-----Original Message-----
From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of leticia reynoso
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 3:25 PM
To: s s
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)

Maybe is Serafin or Serapio

> From: Maria.Cortes@trin.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Cortes, Maria (Matansas, Ojuelos de Jalisco, JAL; Desmonte de Gonzalez, Ocampo, GTO)
>
> Yes it will...I was not able to get at least one word out of there. The names and places which you got are the important ones.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org [mailto:research-bounces@lists

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Comment

Maria you can try Marciano Herrera Campos crist 03 nov 1867 C606072 film 639964 son of Serapio Herrera y Felipa Campos Ojuelos Jal.. maybe in this record you see the grandparents

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