Roman


Any Roman's in the Group? If so are you anywhere close to La Barca or
Colotlan?

joseph




Las Lenguas de Jalisco/John Schmal



this is basically the same info that can be found in one of the
articles found at the website:
http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/states.html





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Las Lenguas
de Jalisco
  Author: 
href="http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=author&r=rw&a=&ee=rXDtIdbM3py_kxSoOBIh95DOPGRn2RoW&>John
P. Schmal

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Date: 17
Aug 2004 2:51 AM GMT
  Classification: Query

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Jalisco is "La Madre Patria" (the Mother
Country) for millions of Mexican Americans. Given this fact, it makes
sense that many sons and daughters of Jalisco are curious about the
cultural and linguistic roots of their indigenous ancestors. Jalisco
made up almost one-half of the Spanish colony of Nueva Galicia (New
Galicia) and was an important cultural and economic force in the
evolution of Mexico from a Spanish colony to a new nation. Even today,
some say Jalisco - whose capital city Guadalajara is the second largest
city in all of Mexico - is the heart and soul of Mexico.



The
Jalisco of pre-Hispanic times was the home to many indigenous peoples.
Domingo Lázaro de Arregui, in his "Descripción de la Nueva Galicia" -
published in 1621 - wrote that 72 languages were spoken in the Spanish
colonial province of Nueva Galicia. But, according to the author Eric
Van Young, "the extensive and deep-running mestizaje of the area has
meant that at any time much beyond the close of the colonial period the
history of the native peoples has been progressively interwoven with
(or submerged in) that of non-native groups."



The author José
Ramirez Flores, in his work, "Lenguas Indígenas de Jalisco," has gone
to great lengths in reconstructing the linguistic map of the Jalisco of
the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries. It must be remembered that,
although Jalisco first came under Spanish control in the 1520s, certain
sections of the state remained isolated and under Amerindian control
until late in the Sixteenth Century.



According to Señor Flores,
the languages of the Caxcanes Indians were widely spoken in the
northcentral portion of Jalisco along the "Three-Fingers Border Zone"
with Zacatecas. It is believed that the Caxcanes language was spoken at
Teocaltiche, Ameca, Huejúcar, and across the border in Nochistlán,
Zacatecas. A a cultural group, the Caxcanes ceased to exist during the
Nineteenth Century.



The Coras inhabited what is most of
present-day Nayarit as well as the northwestern fringes of Jalisco. The
word "mariachi" is believed to have originated in their language.
Today, the Coras, numbering up to 15,000 people, continue to survive,
primarily in Nayarit and Jalisco. The Cora Indians have been studied by
several historians and archaeologists. One of the most interesting
works about the Cora is Catherine Palmer Finerty's "In a Village Far
>From Home: My Life Among the Cora Indians of the Sierra Madre"
(Tucson:
University of Arizona Press, 2000).



The Coca Indians inhabited
portions of central Jalisco, in the vicinity of Guadalajara and Lake
Chapala. The Guachichile Indians - so well known for their fierce
resistance towards the Spaniards in the Chichimeca War (1550-1590) -
inhabited the areas near Lagos de Moreno, Arandas, Ayo el Chico, and
Tepatitlán in the Los Altosregion of northeastern Jalisco. The
Guachichiles, however, also occupied a large swatch of territory
through most of present-day eastern Zacatecas. The Guachichile Indians
received their name from the Náhuatl language. The name is derived from
the combination of quaítl (head) and chichiltic (red), thanks to their
custom of painting their bodies with red dye. After the end of the
Chichimeca War, the Guachichiles were very quickly assimilated and
Christianized and no longer exist as a distinguishable cultural entity.



The
Cuyutecos - speaking the Nahua language of the Aztecs - settled in
southwestern Jalisco, inhabiting Talpa, Mascota, Mixtlán, Atengo, and
Tecolotlán. The population of this area - largely depleted by the
epidemics of the Sixteenth Century - was partially repopulated by
Spaniards and Indian settlers from Guadalajara and other parts of
Mexico. Other Nahua languages were spoken in such southern Jalisco
towns as Tuxpan and Zapotlán.



Some historians believe that the
Huichol Indians are descended from the nomadic Guachichiles, having
moved westward and settled down to an agrarian lifestyle.inhabited a
small area in northwestern Jalisco, adjacent to the border with
Nayarit. The Huichol, seeking to avoid confrontation with the
Spaniards, became very isolated and thus we able to survive as a people
and a culture. Today, the Huichols number approximately 20,000 in both
northeastern Nayarit and northwestern Jalisco.



The survival of
the Huichol has intrigued historians and archaeologists alike. The art,
history, culture, language and religion of the Huichol have been the
subject of at least a dozen books. Carl Lumholtz, in "Symbolism of the
Huichol Indians: A Nation of Shamans" (Oakland, California: B.I.
Finson, 1988), made observations about the religion of the Huichol.
Stacy B. Schaefer and Peter T. Furst edited "People of the Peyote:
Huichol Indian History, Religion and Survival" (Albuquerque: University
of New Mexico Press, 1996), discussed the history, culture and language
of these fascinating people in great detail.



The Purépecha
Indians - also referred to as the Tarascans, Tarscos, and Porhé -
inhabited most of present-day Michoacán and boasted a powerful empire
that rivaled the Aztec Empire during the Fifteenth and early Sixteenth
Centuries. As recently as 1990, the Purápecha numbered 120,000
speakers. This language, classified as an isolated language, was spoken
along the southern fringes of southern Jalisco, adjacent to the border
with Colima.



The Tecuexes Indians occupied a considerable area
of Jalisco north of Guadalajara and western Los Altos, including
Mexticacan. The Tecuexes also occupied the central region near Tequila,
Amatltán, Cuquio, and Epatan. The Tzaulteca language was spoken in
several towns southwest of Lake Chapala, including Ataceo and Sayula.
The Tecuexes have been studied by Dr. Phil Weigand, who wrote articles
on them. They no longer exist as a cultural group.



In
pre-Hispanic times, the Tepehuán Indians inhabited a wide swath of
territory that stretch through sections of present-day Jalisco,
Nayarit, Durango and Chihuahua. However, their territory was gradually
encroached upon by the Spaniards and indigenous migrants from central
Mexico. After they were crushed in their rebellion of 1616-1619, the
Tepehuán moved to hiding places in the Sierra Madre to avoid Spanish
vengeance.



Today, the Tepehuán retain elements of their old
culture. At the time of the Spanish contact, the Tepehuanes language
was spoken in "Three Fingers Region" of northwestern Jalisco in such
towns as Tepec, Mezquitic and Colotlán. The Tepehuanes language and
culture are no longer found in Jalisco, but more than 25,000 Tepehuanes
still reside in southern Chihuahua and southeastern Durango. The revolt
of 1616 was described in great detail by Charlotte M. Gradie's "The
Tepehuán Revolt of 1616: Militarism, Evangelism and Colonialism in
Seventeenth Century Nueva Vizcaya (Salt Lake City: University of Utah
Press, 2000). The author Campbell W. Pennington also wrote about the
Tepehuán in "The Tepehuán of Chihuahua" (Salt Lake City: University of
Utah Press, 1969).



The history of Jalisco from the beginning of
the Spanish administration to the present has been a subject of many
studies over the decades. This emphasis on the more recent history has,
for the most part, ignored or bypassed the indigenous aspects of
Jalisco's colorful and fascinating history. Part of the reason for this
is that it is simply impossible to reconstruct the cultures and
histories of an area so devastated by epidemics and military upheaval.



Another
reason is that the history of Jalisco from the time of independence to
the present has been a dynamic force in the story of the nation of
Mexico. Nevertheless, the sources listed in the bibliography below may
be able to provide the reader with a new window to the indigenous
peoples of Jalisco.

BIBLIOGRAFÍA DE GENEALOGÍA POR APELLIDO

http://mx.geocities.com/genealogiademexico/menu/008biblio.html


                       BIBLIOGRAFÍA DE GENEALOGÍA POR APELLIDOS
AGRAZ
AGRAZ GARCIA DE ALVA, Gabriel
1957    Un linaje de San Agustín de Tecolotlán. Los Agraz.
            Guadalajara, Jalisco, 75 p.

ALBA
ALBA, Miguel
1981 "Una Seccion de los Alba de los Altos de Jalisco."
            Mexico, D.F.

ALCALDE
PAREDES ESPINOZA, Mario
2002    La familia Alcalde.

ALLENDE
RUBIO MAÑE, J. Ignacio
1961    “Los Allendes de San Miguel El Grande. Nota introductoria”.

México, en: Boletín del Archivo General de la Nación, tomo
II, no. 4,

            p. 517-556.

ALVARADO
PARDO, J. Joaquin

1936 "Real Cedula de 7 de mayo de 1776, sobre que se inforrna del
Entronque de los
Cuatro Hijos de Don Manuel de Alvarado y Guzman,
Descendiente del Adelantado

            Don Pedro de Alvarado".
            Boletin del Archivo General de Gobierno 2 (1936): 79-121.

AMERLINCK
AMERLINK Y ZIRION, Teodoro
1952    “Trabajo

Teocaltiche


Book Bosquejo histórico de Teocaltiche. 

Author:
Dávila Garibi, José Ignacio Paulino, 1888-
Publication: [México,
Librería editorial San Ignacio de Loyola, 1945-
Document: Spanish
: Book


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2. Book Teocaltiche en mi recuerdo :

romances, leyendas, recuerdos y tradiciones de mi tierra /
 

Author:
Aguirre, Manuel J.
Publication: México
: B. Costa-Amic, 1958
Document: Spanish
: Book


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3. Book San Pedro Teocaltiche;

m. s. encontrados y coleccionados
 

Author:
Paso y Troncoso

Names of tribes in Sonora records


The north Mexican
frontier;



readings in archaeology,
ethnohistory, and ethnography.

Basil
Calvin Hedrick
; 
J Charles Kelley; 
Carroll L Riley

1971

English
Book Book
xvi, 255 p. map. 24 cm.
Carbondale, Southern Illinois University Press
; ISBN: 0809304899

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    Kelley, J. Charles, (max: 7); Riley, Carroll L., (2)
    Title: The north Mexican frontier;

    readings in archaeology, ethnohistory

    Native American Dental Identifiers

    I'm pretty sure I sent this to the group but just in case I didn't here
    it is again,



    joseph



    ps: happy holidays. One possible approach for the following info is to
    contact your local university dental school and try to find a "budding"
    dental student that might be interested in examing your teeth in search
    of the discussed characteristics:

    
    
    (http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~grobbins/huh.html) 
    


    Dental Discrete Traits In The Permanent Teeth

    The populational frequencies of dental discrete
    traits
    can be compared to determine relatedness. Twin studies and animal
    breeding
    research have proven high heredity for non-metric traits though the
    precise
    genetic mechanism is not well understood. The evidence for relatedness
    must be corroborated by convergent evidence from metric traits,
    analysis
    of skeletal traits, other genetic and/or serological evidence,
    archaeological,
    geographical and historical evidence as well as linguistic
    phylogenetics.
    This study will supplement research on the

    Names of tribes in Sonora records

    Kitty,
     
    That's really neat.  You are one of the few Mexicans out there who will know with certainty the tribe from which you descend.  The rest of us can go on wondering the rest of our lives.
    I think it's sad that the priests never bothered to identify the type of Indian involved in the sacrament being performed.  They ruined it for us poor folks who feel a need to find out what we are. 
     
    I was reading Victor Villasenor's "Rain of Gold" where the feet of a Tarahumara Indian were described, and they were just like my feet.  I descend from an "Yndio" on my mom's side who most likely came from the Sierra Madre Occidental area, and I was so excited, thinking I'd found my Indian heritage.  I wrote to Victor, asking where he learned what Tarahumara feet look like, and his sister responded (she answers all his e-mail) but she didn't take me seriously.  She said, "Thanks for telling us about your feet lady."  I felt like an idiot! 
     
    My own family thinks I'm nuts for doing things like that

    Names of tribes in Sonora records

    We have found in the Banamichi and Arizpe Baptisimal records where 
    our ancestors were Opata Indios.  Not speaking or reading Spanish, 
    we didn't recognize the term Opata, until we started reading all the 
    wonderful information that comes thru the Ranchos site.  All the 
    years of researching Rich's ancestors in Jalisco and Zacatecas, we 
    have never found the name of the Indios,  but only three generations 
    back, we find that my father, born in Banamichi, Sonora, has 
    ancestors clearly listed as Opata Indios.  This area of Sonora is 
    very hard to research, since the University of Arizonia went in and 
    filmed a lot of the church records, (called the 811 filmes), so now 
    the FHL does not see the need to extract this information on their 
    own films.  So you find very little extracted out there on the FHL 
    website.
    We were fortunate to spend a few days at the University of Arizona, 
    Tuscon,  and got into the 811 films.  There are 27 rolls of films.  
    Found some census and printed every

    Etzatlán

    Joseph, I know you mentioned that you encountered the names of tribes in some records.  Were these baptismal/marriage records in Chihuahua, and how old were they?  I've never heard of that happening?  Has anyone else encountered tribal names? 

    gmccrary@... wrote:
    I have baptism, death, and marriage records for my paternal line
    which date from 1650 to 1825 in Etzatlán.  My line moved to
    Guadalajara.   Most of them were identified as Indios by the church. 
    But unfortunately, the tribe is never mentioned.

    Gloria



    Do you Yahoo!?

    Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

    Indigenous History

    When I clicked on the link, there was an extra parenthesis on the end.  I deleted it and the link worked.  The correct address is

     


     

    Rosalinda

     




    -----Original Message-----
    From: "Ms. Boo"
    Sent: Dec 23, 2004 10:06 AM
    To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [ranchos] Indigenous History


    I tried connecting to this link and it never opens. Is anyone else having the same problem?

     

    Thanks






    Do you Yahoo!?
    All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!








    Yahoo! Groups Links



    Etzatlán

    I have baptism, death, and marriage records for my paternal line 
    which date from 1650 to 1825 in Etzatlán.  My line moved to 
    Guadalajara.   Most of them were identified as Indios by the church.  
    But unfortunately, the tribe is never mentioned.
    
    Gloria
    
    

    Arambula es un apellido vasco.

    Joesph, please let me know ablout your connections to Teocaltiche. 

     

    Also, as far as political clout I ran for California State Assembly this year and came in a respectable last place.


    Sylvia Rodriguez Robles MPA
    909-783-2571

    ONE LAST TRY

    From most recent to extent of my records search: Rodriguez(my maiden name) Velasco, Hernandez and Moran. I will post my Gedom next week. I need to fix some entries my husband did.

     

    Y los appellidos de usted?


    Sylvia Rodriguez Robles MPA
    909-783-2571

    El pasado de tres pueblos : Tamazula, Tuxpan y Zapotlán

    Title: El pasado de tres pueblos :

    Tamazula, Tuxpan y Zapotlán /
    Author(s): Schöndube,
    Otto.
     
    Publication: Guadalajara,
    Jalisco : Universidad de Guadalajara, Dirección General Académica,

    Edition: 1. ed.
    Year: 1994
    Description: 518 p. :
    ill., maps ; 21 cm.
    Language: Spanish
    Series: Libros de
    tiempos de ciencia ;; 7;
    Standard No: ISBN:
    9688952923 LCCN: 96-122559
    Abstract: "Principally
    an archeological study but with added information from ethnohistorical
    sources. Illuminates little-known sites in modern Jalisco, in the
    northwestern-most corner of the Tarascan dominion and a regional source
    for silver, which probably provided the incentive for early Spanish
    penetration. Substantiates some cultural links with the Basin of
    Mexico"--Handbook of Latin American Studies, v. 58.

    Link to external web site http

    DNA: Soy Indio Tambien!

    Bien dicho Guillermo,



    Yes if we can learn the different things that "Indios de nosotros" went
    through and any of that history that will give us a good way to get an
    idea of how we as individuals were molded via the attitudes and ideas
    of those that were our forefathers. Maybe we can start a movement
    within the group to post what they have with regards to our indian
    roots from the Jalisco, Zacatecas and Aguascalientes area.



    I'll contribute at least my 1/70th of an effort in sending along info
    on our indios. . .maybe a few others can take a little time and study
    some things and send then in for our edification.



    Feliz Navidad Primos, Primas, companeros en buscando nuestros raices.



    joseph



    Guillermo Valdez wrote:

    I honestly don't think anybody in this group is
    searching for their mexican roots in the hopes of
    finding out they only have "pure" european blood (if
    anybody is, I'd feel sorry for them). 
    
    What should make us proud is finding the mixture of
    indian, white, etc

    DNA: Soy Indio Tambien!

    I honestly don't think anybody in this group is
    searching for their mexican roots in the hopes of
    finding out they only have "pure" european blood (if
    anybody is, I'd feel sorry for them). 
    
    What should make us proud is finding the mixture of
    indian, white, etc., blood in us and to feel proud of
    our traditions. We need to learn to appreciate the
    struggles our ancestors have to pass through
    (specially the indians) so we can be here sharing all
    this in our group.
    
    I am very proud of my mexican roots and that, to me,
    means primarily indian blood. The european part of us
    is inevitable, since our ancestors had to withstand
    the white conquerors for some many centuries. But, I
    proudly can say: Soy indio tambien! and a proud one as
    well. And I intend to pass that on to my children,
    since they will grow up in this great country and I
    don't want them to forget where they come from and and
    to lose their traditions.
    
    Guillermo.
     
    --- Joseph Puentes  wrote:
    
    > 
    > 
    > alice wissing wrote

    ONE LAST TRY

    Sylvia, indeed, Los Altos are tall people. I inherited
    my height (6' 4") from my ancestors from Los Altos
    (Jalisco Highlands). What area in Los Altos is your
    family from and what surnames???
    
    Guillermo.
    
    --- Sylvia Robles  wrote:
    
    > 
    > I in short am on the "bad girl" list for not yet
    > posting my GEDOM 
    > Data as of yet. I just lost my mother in law and
    > have been fighting 
    > one virus after another including, healing up my
    > badly sprained 
    > ankle.  This is my #3 attempt to use this thing
    > right! I am descended 
    > from grandparents from Teocaltihe, Jalisco and
    > Pinos, Zacactecas. I 
    > have travelled to both towns and collected
    > substantial data and books 
    > from region. I have oral tradition of Judio customs
    > from Zacatecas 
    > side whose journey to Merida, Yucatan was from
    > Egypt. The family 
    > owned several cattle ranches, a hacienda in Pinos
    > and meat markets 
    > throughout Jalisco, Aguacalientes and Zacatecas. 
    > The Los Altos, side 
    > which are in fact tall

    Arambula es un apellido vasco.

    
    
    Sylvia Robles wrote:
    
    

    A new state assemblyman Juan Arambula from Fresno I believe just
    took office. His family via an e-mail to a friend confirms his roots
    from Los Altos.

    
    

    seems that within this group we have a lot of political clout. subscribe
    is one Senator, you probably are related to this assemblyman, I'm
    related to two other CA congress people. Maybe if we all pulled together
    we could get a genealogical bill enacted "or" something.

    
    

    Have you tried to make a connection with Juan Arambula? Might try
    working your Arambula's forward to see what branch he comes from.

    
    joseph
    
    
    
    

    Arambula es un apellido vasco.

    Well go figure. Another Basque name.  Thank you for the information. In all the Basque listing of surnames I never came across this one.  I know my husbands family will be happy to know this.  From that region my paternal grandma was surnamed Velasco.  A new state assemblyman Juan Arambula from Fresno I believe just took office.  His family via an e-mail to a friend confirms his roots from Los Altos.

     

    Again, thank you and I am anxious to delve into the materials you have.