Published by AngelicaGarcia –
Genealogy Research

Busco información y contactos con descendientes de Moctuzuma II, en particular con hijos de Leonor Valderrama de Moctezuma, madre de Petronila de Moctezuma.

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The earliest evidence that I had previous to this find was 1574. This find has a date of 27 May 1573 so it is the earliest evidence that I know of.

Thank you Denise,

Rick A.Ricci

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Hi Rick and others who have responded to my comment.

I looked back through earlier comments and found one by Raul Munoz who describes this early decree - he mentions this document in a comment here is this thread on 2019-10-08 21:28. My apologies to Raul, that I forgot I had seen his earlier post!

I think the significance of the document must lie in the fact that the Leonor de Valderrama who is identified at the mother of Fernando and wife of Diego Arias Sotelo, is also identfied as the granddaughter of Moctezuma, and that the document was created - timewise - close to Moctezuma and people who knew him and his children. This should help settle the debate about whether the wife of Diego Arias Sotelo also descended from Cortez (she did not...).

There is another entry in PARES, Archivo General de Indias - licencia de pasajeros a criados de Leonor de Valderrama - from 1546, but unfortunately there are no images of it, so its not possible to confirm its the Leonor Valderrama subject

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I just found a dowry record of another ancestor of mine, Berenguela De Montemayor, that names her father as Martin Alfonso De Montemayor. He does not name Berenguela in his will. Married daughters were often excluded from wills. This female ancestor was a great grandmother of Ruy Diaz De Mendoza. This is the documented line of ancestry of Ruy Diaz De Mendoza that is married to Catalina Salazar. This is another of multiple instances that I have seen where a daughter who is named as receiving a dowry from their father is not named in his will as he has already “ taken care “ of her financially.

The Lope Ruiz De Esparza record that I saw only named his mother-in-law as Moctezuma’s granddaughter, but Guillermo Teresa De Tovar notified me that he had a record in his possession that identified her as part of the Sotelo Moctezuma family. He did not show it to me but he did send me a “verbatim quote”. He said that he would send me a copy but he passed away before was able to pass it on

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I'm new to the family of Petronila's descendants. A very distant cousin of mine posted a family tree on Ancestry with 33,000 people including my 8th great grandparents, Joseph de Contreras and Cecilia de Renteria. My cousin doesn't list her sources on Ancestry so I have been slowly researching and documenting each person. Today, I made the mistake of picking up Chipman's book which says my 13th GGM Petronila de Sotelo doesn't exist. Ancestry.com and Family Search seem to back him up.

All the records people cite are not of Petronila. I want to prove she existed. Does anyone know where and when her name first appeared?

What do you know about Martin de Gabay Navarro? My first question is, "Is his name Navarro de Gabay or de Gabay de Navarro? (Martin Navarro from Gabay or Martin de Gabay from Navarre?). I'm starting to realize that some of these names are places.

Can someone tell me what PARES and SHARR are? I want more places to dig. I'm stubborn and I just finished an MS in Business

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Rachel,

That is the question we have all been asking … I believe that there is at least one Informaciones Matrimoniales that state that Petronila was Moctezuma’s granddaughter … at least that is what memory serves. The million dollar question is who her parents were. Supposedly, Guillermo Tovar de Teresa had located proof of her parentage and supporting the theory that she was daughter of Diego Sotelo; unfortunately, he died before he was able to publish his findings. However, he did share his information with Mariano González-Leal so there is hope to getting our questions answered.

As fo Martin … I believe he was Martin de Gabay, el Navarro. However, he has been referred to as Martin Navarro as well.

If you look back in the archives on Nuestros Ranchos, you will see that this topic is pretty well covered.

-Angelina-

On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:49 AM, rachkath@me.com wrote:
>
> I'm new to the family of Petronila's descendants. A very distant cousin of
> mine posted a family tree on

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I've spent my morning/early afternoon researching this topic. I read the portion of Margo Tamez' dissertation on Indigenous Women in regard to Petronila. She lists a marriage record but it is not on Family Search. Is there another LDS repository that I am unaware of?

PETRONILA DE MOCTEZUMA, b. Aguascalientes, Abt. 1550. Married to Martin Navarro.
Listed with parents: Francisca GABAY Born Abt. 1577, marriage Abt. 1594 Mexico, DF
LDS marriage film Batch # F868769, Sheet 031, Source 1396289.

If Lope Ruiz de Esparza was correct in calling her "Moctezuma's grand daughter" then she is not the daughter of Leonor and Diego. She cannot be Valderrama's daughter because he died in 1537 and Petronila was born around 1552.

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She would have to be a g-grand daughter of Moctezuma. I don’t remember the exact verbage but I do know the there has been confusion with all the Leonor’s in this line. As for other records … the Informaciones Matrimoniales are usually not in the database. Those you have to look at the actual film which is probably available on-line.

You have peaked my interest. I will take a look at the dissertation you mentioned and as well as the LDS record so I can see what you see. Also, I will see if I have links to any documents that mention them.

-Angelina-

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 7:32 PM, rachkath@me.com wrote:
>
> I've spent my morning/early afternoon researching this topic. I read the
> portion of Margo Tamez' dissertation on Indigenous Women in regard to
> Petronila. She lists a marriage record but it is not on Family Search. Is
> there another LDS repository that I am unaware of? PETRONILA DE MOCTEZUMA, b.
> Aguascalientes, Abt. 1550. Married to Martin Navarro. Listed with parents:
>

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Hello Rachel, Batch # F868769, Sheet 031, Source 1396289 would have been created by Jaime Holcombe Isunza, q.e.p.d., and are not available online. See http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/14203#comment-29226 and https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/319732?availability=Family%…

I have copies of some of his Family Group Sheets. They have names of the esposo, esposa, sometimes the names of the parents of the esposo and esposa, the names of the children of the esposo and esposa, and their children and the spouse of the children and the dates of each of them as well as the source information. Unfortunately the source information is the film number in Mexico and not the LDS film number but if there is a number it means there is a microfilm with information about one or more of the family members. By now we would have copies of all of the information on the sheets since they are all based on the same microfilms that have been digitized and placed online.

I uploaded a

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Dear Rachael Juarez Vargas,

I am very curious about your statement:

“Have also lost Charlemagne. He is a direct ancestor of Cristobal Valderrama and Diego de Sotelo.”

How are Cristobal Valderrama and Diego de Sotelo.descendants of CHARLEMAGNE?

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

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Dear Rachael

I too am curious. A few years ago I was trying to untangle the Sotelo lines in Spain, Mexico and South America...very intersting family but I did not get further back (with reasonable certainty) than Diego Sotelo's parents.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

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I got a family tree from a distant cousin. I am still trying to sort the truth from fiction. Ironically, I had ironed out the link to Moctezuma that I thought was iffy when I found out Petronilla was iffy.

I get to royalto via Pedro de Sotelo, the alleged father of both Antonio de Sotelo (Diego's father) and Christobal Valderrama. I have to look at my records but I believe I proved Antonio is the son of Pedro but I don't know why I have Cristobal as the son of Pedro de Sotelo and Ines Cisneros. Pedro de Sotelo goes to a King of Portugal, once I got there I just used history sites.

I found a lot of info here: https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/ which ancestry.com uses as a source. However, now that I have more experience in online genealogical research, I am not sure what type of site it is and if its reliable. I'm not sure if it's a European Records repository similar to Family Search or a crowd sourced tree like WikiTree.

I just found this by googling but who put it up there

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Hi Rachel

It's wonderful to see your enthusiasm! There will be brick walls, but the only thing to do it move on to another branch for a while where you can make progress. I find that if I take a break from one line, and pick it up later, I discover new info or see something I overlooked.

My best advice is to rely on original documents - church or civil records of birth, marriage, death, infomacion matrimoniales, etc. - I use FamilySearch and sometimes ancestry as a way in. Other - secondary - sources can point you in the right direction, give you a good lead, but I would not base my family tree on these (published article and books by historians who provide their sources are another matter though). I save links, source citations, and screenshots in google docs, and print out now and then. This is especially important when a film is not indexed and has to be reviewed image by image. The work is very painstaking, but also rewarding when you make a discovery that pushes a line back

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Hi Denise,

The furthest I can prove with records at the moment is the line from my mom to Lope Ruiz de Ezparza el menor and his wife Ana Francisca de Gabay or Navarro or whatever her father's name was. I have seen records or books naming Lope's parents but I don't have those records saved to Ancestry.com.

Cristobal de Valderrama was Mariana Leonor Moctezuma's second husband, father of Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma and father in law of Diego Arias de Sotelo. I have him as "de Valderrama" which is how I have seen him listed. I thought it was because he was from Valderrama, Burgos, Casile & Leon, Spain. It's near the border between Castile and Basque country. I've only seen his name in books which I didn't screenshot.

I am going to start doing that now. I've been reading other trees on Ancestry. A lot of them have notes and some have photos of records. I think a lot of people may keep their sources offline. I can't imagine knowing what someone did for a living without having a record

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In case any of you don’t have this, here’s the 27 Aug 1594 IM of Cristobal Sotelo Valderrama and Juana de Heredia Patiño, hija de Baltasar de Vargas cc Francisca de Heredia. Apparently, Cristobal’s sister was “maliciously” opposed to this union. I don’t know if the marriage ever happened.

DIEGO ORTIZ DE SAAVEDRA

Rachel - according to the info that his son gave when taking his orders, the elder Diego Ortiz de Saavedra was from Almendralejo, Badajoz, Extremadura. His parents’ names aren’t given, but they were also residents of Almendralejo, Valladolid isn’t mentioned. Catalina Muñoz was daughter of Francisco Muñoz and Luisa de Nava, of Lagos.
Otherwise, Diego Ortiz was confirmed as alguacil mayor (high sheriff) of Lagos, Aguascalientes and Teocaltiche on 26 Feb 1611, as per PARES. That document doesn’t give any more info, other than his name is written Diego Ortiz de Saavedra y Paradas.

That’s interesting, what that book says about Beatriz mulata, the mother of the younger Diego

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Hi Manny

This is wonderful! Thanks for posting the link, I can see it states both Christobal's parents are deceased. Looking forward to trying the read why his sister was opposed to the marriage!

THe marriage did go through, and when Christobal died, Juana inherited his share of Ecatepec and then sued to get half of Christobal's sister's share of Ecatepec. Had she not done that, all of sister Ana's share would have gone to Fernando Sotelo de Moctezuma. (The three siblings had each inherited a third). This is described in more detail in Moctezuma's Children by Donald E. Chipman, p. 81.

Regards
Denise

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Denise - I’m not sure if it gives the reason why Ana Sotelo didn’t want her brother to marry - the document isn’t in very good condition and is a difficult read, but there doesn’t appear to be any details.

Rachel - I forgot to leave the link to Diego Ortiz de Saavedra el Mozo’s ordenes.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DV99-CS?i=93&wc=SSKC-L…

Here’s something of interest to anyone else who has Muñoz de Nava in their lines: while reviewing Diego Ortiz de Saavedra’s ordenes, I saw something I hadn’t noticed before: one of the testigos was Capitan Francisco Tavera, age 70+ (img100R). He says that he remembers when Diego Ortiz was baptized (on 12 Aug 1601), “because the previous year, this witness married Luisa de Nava, the grandmother of aforementioned Diego Ortiz.” That’s news to me - I’ve never seen any mention of this marriage before! That tells us that Francisco Muñoz died before 1600, when Luisa de Nava married Francisco Tavera. As to the identity of

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I found a document in Somos Primos when I was looking up the de Anda-Altamiranos (another of my Lagos lines) which also read "Don Diego Ortiz de Saavedra, alguacil mayor y también de los primeros pobladores de Lagos, cuando él muere, su esposa, Doña Catalina Muñoz de Jerez." vs Catalina Munoz de Nava. I also show a Cathalina Lopez de Nava as the wife of Juan Gomez de Portugal. My sources are starting to contradict themselves!

The document is almost to the bottom of the page it's called La Hacienda de San Nicola de Frias by Guillermo Padilla Origel

http://www.somosprimos.com/sp2002/spnov02.htm#MEXICO

Now I'm off to attempt to read "Vecinos de casa poblada: Los Gómez de Portugal de Santa María de los Lagos, 1563-1810" by Dra. Lina Mercedes Cruz Lira of the University of Guadalajara. Hmmm... I may want to see if I can get in during her office hours when I'm down there. I can speak Spanish it's reading it that is hard for me. Below is a link if anyone is intersted.

https://play

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Dear Rachel,

If you have done lots of research you will find that sometimes sources contradict each other. You then need More research and mental gymnastics to figure our the possible reasons for the contradictions and the true ancestry. There is another contradiction in the ancestry of the Gómez de Portugal ancestry. One ancestry shows Diego Gómez de Portugal to be a great-grandson of a king of Portugal, while another ancestry shows a different great grandfather

Good Luck in your research,
Rick

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Hi Rachel,

After reading through the Guillermo Padilla Origel piece that you cited, I think I can see the source of some of the contradictions. Except for maybe the land titles, almost everything he says about the Ortiz de Saavedra’s is incorrect. I’ve read other articles by Padilla Origel in the past, and he seems to get people with the same names mixed up. It makes me wonder if he ever backed up his work with documentation, or did any cross referencing? Catalina Muñoz was not a Muñoz de Jerez: as established in the orders of her son, Diego Ortiz “el Mozo,” she was daughter of Francisco Muñoz and Luisa de Nava. The Muñoz de Jerez of Lagos descend from Luisa de Nava’s sister, Catalina Lopez, who was married to Rodrigo Muñoz de Jerez. And Diego Ortiz and Catalina Muñoz did have a daughter named Maria Ortiz de Saavedra, but she was married to Fernando de Costilla y Espinosa, and not to Alonso Sanchez Bañales and Mateo de Villanueva. The one who married them was her cousin, Maria Ortiz

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Hi Manny,

I bought "Colonial Spanish America: A Documentary History" by Taylor and Mills because I saw screenshot of it somewhere in regard to Diego Ortiz de Saavedra. I had not idea there was more than one Diego Ortiz de Saavedra. As I read it, my 12th GGPs Luisa Ortiz de Saavedra and Juan Saez de Viduarre were upset because Diego, Jr. left Beatriz his property. Juan was the magistrate. Beatriz was the mistress of several notable local men in Lagos and she was a bitch to Diego Jr.'s slaves, regardless much to my GGPs chagrin she was aquitted. Beatriz had been freed for a while at this point.

The reason I thought Diego Sr. came from Valladolid is because I saw something stating that Luisa was born there but that doesn't mean he was from there. The Parada name comes from Maria Ortiz de Saavedra's children. She was Luisa's younger sister. She married Sebastian Parada. Since I'm currently researching my direct line, I don't know much about them but I will get to them at somepoint

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That's Cristobal Sotelo Valderamma, Cristobal de Valderamma's grandson. I don't understand how the honorific "Don" would help distinguish them, aren't they both "Dons"? It *does* explain the source that I saw that thought Cristobal, Sr. was a Sotelo.

Ana was a nun, perhaps Juana was of a similar disposition to Beatriz but without the extenuating circumstances.

Ana and Cristobal, Jr. (and Fernando) bring us back to Petronila Moctezuma, mother in law of Lope Ruiz de Esparza and "grand daughter of Moctezuma". Cristobal, Jr., Ana and Fernando were Moctezuma's great-grandchildren and Petronila's sibling based on the most common place she is placed in the genealogies.

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Happy New Year,

Rachel,

I was very surprised to hear about Conquistador Cristóbal Valderrama’s ancestry as I don’t even know who his parents are. The information that I have is that:

He was accused of being a practicing Jew.
He was from “Valderrama, partido de la Sierra en Tobalina, Burgos, Castilla y León, Spain”,
He was born in 1490/1495 in Barcelona, provincia da Cataluña, Spain,
He married Mariana “Leonor” Moctezuma in 1931 as her second husband,
He is mentioned in the early history of Michoacan where he was given the encomienda of Tarimbaro in 1526. His wife Mariana/ Leonor already owned the encomienda of Ecatepac prior to their marriage.
He passed away in Ciudad Mexico, D.F., Mexico in November of 1537.

I don’t have any records at all indicating leads as to who his parents are, or any mention of a descent from Charlemagne. I would appreciate any information on Cristóbal Valderrama’s ancestry.

=====/====================/==========================================
First

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Hi Rick

I have been trying to remember the name of the Sotelo lady who was Lutheran in the 16th century, I think it was Marina de Saavedra, married to Pedro Cisneros de Sotelo.

Very interesting story about her, written by Doris Moreno Martinez:
https://books.google.dk/books?id=9QS4CwAAQBAJ&pg=PT347&dq=sotelo+marina…

Devout Laywomen in the Early Modern World
editado por Alison Weber (Chapter 10 is about Marina de Saavedra)

There are several Sotelos mentioned here, some of which are the same people mentioned in the comments in this thread here in NR:
http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/21997

With regard to the parentage of Diego ARias de Sotelo, the problem has been to document that his father was the Sotelo who accompanied Hernan Cortes. To my knowledge, we do not have a source on that. It would have been great if Diego Sotelos Confirmation de Oficio of 1559 had

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Dear Denise,

Even though she was convicted for practicing Lutheranism, it appears that she was innocent in the sense that she believed that she was deepening her faith in Christianity, and did not see her self as practicing anything other than the Catholic religion. Her participation in prayer and scripture study groups seemed to her to be a deepening of her Catholic faith. She was a woman full of love for her neighbors and should have been considered a saint instead of a heretic. Her biggest mistake it seems was taking to heart the teachings of Erasmus. I only call it a mistake because of the persecution that she suffered because of it. She wasn’t the only Sotelo family member that was accused of heresy. What makes her stand out is her “innocence” just jumps out to the reader when you read about her life.

There was much controversy over the writings of Erasmus as he preached that the spread of Classical knowledge encouraged a better morality and greater understanding between

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Hi Rick

Thanks for the info on Marina de Saavedra, she was truly a courageous person during a time when a challenge to the Catholic church's dogma (or actions the church perceived as a challenge) could get you burned as a heretic - this was in fact the fate of her nephew Pedro de Sotelo. She herself was imprisoned for life at the order of the Inquisition. The record of her trial reveals that she both denied heresy and admitted to having believed, for a period of time, some of the heretical (Lutheran) doctrine. What she ultimately believed in her heart we will never know - she had a husband, two daughters and many sons who lives would be affected if she did not reconcile with the church. (This is from the text I mentioned in my previous post)... And yes, Erasmus is also a fascination figure that I know all too little about - added to my list of persons to read up on :)

As for Diego Arias Sotelo, we know for a fact that his brother was Baltasar Sotelo who was also implicated, found

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Hi Denise,

Marina de Saavedra was the wife of Pablo Cisneros Sotelo. Pablo is a brother of Conquistador Antonio Sotelo Cisneros. The Sotelo family that went to South America used Cisneros as the first surname Marina has her name written many different ways in the inquisition records: Sayabedra, Saavedra, Sallebedra are some of the surnames she used. Her first name has been given as Marina and Ana.

Pablo Cisneros Sotelo and Antonio de Sotelo y Cisneros are sons of don Pedro de Sotelo and doña Inés de Cisneros. Pablo and Antonio have two other brothers named Gregorio and Juan. Pedro’s father is Lope Sotelo. Pedro Sotelo has at least two brothers named Francisco and Alonso.

Even though Marina Saavedra was sentenced to life in prison on 21/May/1559, by 1567 she had already been allowed to return to her home.

One of the officials of the inquisition is a family member of the Sotelo family. I don’t know the exact relationship. His name is Inquisitor General Diego de Deza

I too

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Hi Rick and NR members intersted in the Sotelo family

Very interesting with all those Sotelos, Rick! I checked in PARES and there are many entries with these names (and other Sotelos) in the 1500s.

I also did a search here in NR because several of us posted on Diego Arias Sotelo and his descendants some years ago - there is a lot from 2014. It was fun re-reading the old posts. It looks like we overlooked one interesting doc in PARES - sorry, the link doesn't work, so the path to the doc is copy-pasted here:

RESUMEN:
Título de la unidad: "Real cédula concediendo a Diego Arias Sotelo, vecino y regidor de México el término de un año para que la ausencia de Nueva España de Hernando Sotelo Moctezuma, su hijo y de Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma, no perjudique su derecho a la sucesión de los indios de dicha tierra si falleciese en dicho plazo."
Archivo: Archivo General de Indias
Signatura: MEXICO,1090,L.7,F.174V-175V
Soporte: contiene imágenes digitalizadas

indicador de lista abierta ÁREA

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Thank you. I too cannot easily read the early writings but can make out the request Vro. (Vruestro +Nuestro Hijo) and other words but it is clear Leonor nieta de Moctesuma. Once again thanks for the hard copy of evidence.

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What date is on this document?

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of sarod77@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 10:35 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Leonor

Thank you. I too cannot easily read the early writings but can make out the
request Vro. (Vruestro +Nuestro Hijo) and other words but it is clear Leonor
nieta de Moctesuma. Once again thanks for the hard copy of evidence.

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Hi Rick and Denise,

Can you fill me in on the Saavedras? I found a couple of them in the records on Ancestry.com. Luisa Ortiz de Saavedra wife of Juan Saez De Vidaurri in 1620. Her parents are listed as Diego Hortiz Saavedra and Carolina Muñoz. These Saavedras are from Valladolid Spain. Juan Saenz is from Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, Mexico, where generations of my ancestors seem to have lived for generations. Diego is a dead end because there are too many people with similar names. A younger Diego Ortiz was a priest in Lagos who had a child with a "shameless mulatta" named Beatriz who later poisoned him as per "Colonial Spanish America: A Documentary History edited by Kenneth Mills, William B. Taylor"

I've ordered a copy from Amazon becuase it appears to cover Lagos.

Thanks!

Rachel

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Hi Rachel

I am afraid I don't have any other info on the Saavedras than what I already have posted. I have not seen any Saavendras on my family tree (YET!). Sorry I cannot give more help at this point. But if I come across any Saavedras in the very early records (1500s and 1600s) I will reply to your post here.
Regards
Denise

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He is supposed to be a De Sotelo (brother of Antonio, uncle of Diego) but I have to look at my notes to see where I got that information. I think it was a screenshot of one of those out of print books that drive me insane. I have a giant tree from a distant cousin that I have been sourcing for 4 years! The darn thing is huge and unsourced.

I'll get back to you when I find it.

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Hi Rick,

On 8 Nov 2019 in this thread, at the end of the 2nd paragraph, you wrote:

“Other records show Petronila Moctezuma as madrina of children of the Sotelo Valderrama Moctezuma family. “

What are those records, and are they available online?

Thanks, and I hope you’re well!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

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Is there still debate about whether or not Petronila de Moctezuma was a direct line descendant of Moctezuma, and who her parents were?

I have read Margo Tamez's Ph.D disseration about Petronila's lineage and the debate about who her parents were. I also read in Retonos de Espana en la Nueva Galicia, volume 7, page 214, author Mauriano Gonzalez- Leal, that Petronila is a child of Leonor de Valderamma y Moctezuma and Diego Arias de Sotelo.

Is there now general consensus about her parents? Have any documents been identified that support the theory about her parents?

Thank you in advance for your help.

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I personally read a document written in 1595 that quotes Lope Ruiz De Esparza as stating that he arrived two years earlier, and that since he had arrived, he had married Francisca Gabai. He also stated that his mother in law was a granddaughter of Moctezuma. He misspoke as he should have said great granddaughter

Rick A. Ricci

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As a descendant of Moctezuma, Leonor de Valderrama inherited the encomendera of Tarimbaro and Ecatepec. She is thought to have died around 1562. When her husband was exiled to Spain in 1568, managing the encomendera fell to her oldest son, Fernando. In his book "Moctezuma's Children: Aztec Royalty under Spanish Rule, 1520-1700", author Donald E. Chipman writes that Fernando's inheritance was contested by his brother, Cristobal. In 1588, after a twenty year legal battle, the Audiencia of new Spain ruled in favor of Fernando. However, Cristobal appealed the decision. In 1593, Fernando was forced to divided the estates into three equal shares with one share going to Fernando, one share going to Cristobal, and one share going to their sister, Ana. As a young maiden, Ana made the decision to dedicate her life to her faith and became a nun serving in the convent of Santa Clara in Mexico City. She renounced her share in favor of her brothers.

I am assuming that Mr.Chipman thoroughly reviewed

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Some wills name all the children, while giving the inheritance to only some of the children. On many occasions I have come across wills that don’t identify all the children, naming only those that are chosen to inherit. Not only have I seen this in my research, I have also experienced this personally in my own family. Some times children are not named in wills. Sometimes the parents only left the inheritance only to the eldest of their children. I have a family member that wrote his will that only gave an inheritance to the youngest half of his children. I had a great uncle that excluded a child from his will because he secretly provided that child with a sizable chunk of change before he passed away. He wanted to make sure that there weren’t bad feelings as to who got what after he passed away. Another family member of mine left all of her belongings to two of her children and did not name her other two children in her will. I have at least three ancestors that were not

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Hi rlm99x

I wondered about this too, (I have Chipmans book) but in colonial Mexico, when a daughter gets married her father gives her a dowry (dota). It would then make sense that she would not get a part of the estate upon her fathers death. I am sure I read this somewhere back in my anthropology grad student days. Anyone else ever hear of this? Because it would explain why Petronila is not a part in her brother's lawsuit. I also wondered if it was convenient for Fernando, as his first order of business after his father was exiled, to get Petronila married off.

Best Regards,
Denise

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The wills "testamentos" that I have seen will state if a daughter or son had previously received their inheritance as a dowry or other type of compensation. An example is the the testamento of Beatriz López de Fuenllana(https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69JS-J?i=585).

Saludos,
Austin

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It is certainly a possibility that if Petronila received a dowry she may have been excluded from receiving any additional benefits from her parents. It appears no one has seen a testament from Leonor Valderrama or Diego de Arias. What is clear is that Diego named Fernando as his heir.

For those that have not looked at the website, Spain has made many of their documents accessible through the Portal de Archivos Espanoles. It includes a royal decree, sought by Diego, dated May 27, 1573. The abstract reads: Real cédula concediendo a Diego Arias Sotelo, vecino y regidor de México el término de un año para que la ausencia de Nueva España de Hernando Sotelo Moctezuma, su hijo y de Leonor Valderrama Moctezuma, no perjudique su derecho a la sucesión de los indios de dicha tierra si falleciese en dicho plazo.

The reference to Hernando is a transcription error. The document clearly says Fernando. The original document can be viewed as well.

If Fernando is the heir apparent, why did Cristobal

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Hi rlm99x

I too would like to see a document, a primary source that connects Petronila with Diego Arias de Sotelo and Leonor de Valderrama y Moctezuma. I have the same questions you do. Some years back I spent time searching PARES for documents involving Diego Arias Sotelo and his sons. That was when I found a letter dated 1582 - Carlos Peredo was able to compare a signature on this document with a known signature of Diego Arias de Sotelo and we now can be reasonably sure the one from 1582 is also Diego. Carlos was also able to transcribe parts of it. (So at least we knew he didn't die on a ship of the coast of Oran. He was sentenced to that fate for his role in the conspiracy of the the mid 1560's involving, among others, Hernan Cortez's sons.) Regarding PARES, there are lots of documents with his name, and I only saw the tip of the iceberg. I hope some has the time to do further research there, and can read colonial Spanish. At any rate, his testamento would have to be after the

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People question Petronila’s ancestry even though I have repeatedly stated that I have seen proof of her ancestry. I don’t mind people saying that they are not convinced, and won’t be convinced, until they see the document themselves. If I were in their place I too would say “Show me the money”.

And that is why I say I am a very lucky man. I don’t have to rely on what someone else says about seeing proof that Petronila Moctezuma descends from Moctezuma II. Though I can’t find the document that I saw in the Church of Latter Day Saints Library on Santa Monica Blvd in Westwood, I know it exists and that I had it in my hands.

On that day that I took the day off from work to go to the library I was inundated with guilt. I didn’t tell my wife and snuck into the library like a thief. It was the last day before it was to be shut down for “six months” for renovation. The renovation took much, much longer than six months, about two years. I no longer feel guilty for indulging in my

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Hola prim@s,

You’ve all made great points, and thanks for sharing your thoughts & findings.

I have no doubts that Rick saw that document. We now know it exists, and hopefully, some day, someone will locate it. From Rick’s description, it doesn’t appear to explain the relationship, other than Lope Ruiz de Esparza’s suegra “was a granddaughter of Moctezuma II.” That said, Moctezuma II had numerous wives and concubines, and fathered dozens of children, so the relationship doesn’t necessarily have to be through Diego Arias & Leonor Valderrama (as someone else once pointed out in another NR thread). We all just might be barking up the wrong branch of the tree.

That’s my 2 cents.Thanks!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

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Hi Rick,

That is awesome!!
Would you provide a link to the source, name or more information so I/others can review it as well? Or send me the document file if you have it?

Petronila is my 12x great-grandmother.

Thanks much for any help you may give me,
Terri

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Hi Rick,

That is awesome!!
Would you provide a link to the source, name or more information so I/others can review it as well? Or send me the document file if you have it?

Petronila is my 12x great-grandmother.

Thanks much for any help you may give me,
Terri