old-Spanish dialect NM

Yes, Gloria,
 
Estijeras is one word I remember.  Also "muncho" rather than
"mucho".  "Estenazas" I don't remember.  My father, who spoke good
Castellan and was from Zacatecas was always correcting her Spanish, and since we
had learned the language from her and her family due to our separation during
WWII, my sister and I just gave up speaking it, rather than be constantly
scolded by Daddy.  He also hated it when my mother would say, "Tu saves?"
constantly.  My husband thinks she meant to say "sin embargo" but she used
"tu saves" instead.  My husband says he remembers their accent more than
anything else and the manner of speech:  "hequia" for acequia,
etc.   Also, because of the invasion of Americans into their territory
in the late 1840's, their speech included lots of Americanisms:  Carro
instead of auto, discear for disking the land, etc.  Their accent I
remember when they spoke English, was a slightly Spanish accented Western twang,
like the American cowboys, and

Historical Novelas

Elvira,
 
Thank you so much for the information on these novelas.
 
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: elviraz
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:47
AM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Historical
Novelas

emilie,
 
Yes, they are like miniseries.  As I
understand it, a Mexican department store chain came up with the idea of
celebrating its 100 anniversary with a series of historical novelas, so they
commissioned the novelas already in existence plus others in the planning to
be put on CD, DVD, and tapes. They are fairly cheap to way cheaper
on e-bay than through other sources. Most are under 30 dollars. 
some are adapted to so many DVDS, others are complete.
 
Here's a list of  some that are available.
The summaries are not mine, they are found on the internet under various
authors. to find them just type in the novels' names and look for the one that
rads the name plus the word telenovela:
 
L

old-Spanish dialect NM

Yeah, my mom, born near Magdalena, New Mexico, also used old Spanish 
words:
estijeras instead of tijeras
estenazas instead of tenazas

The following site, states:
Origen de estenazas y de estijeras parece aragonés.
http://www.hoyabunolchiva.org/iec/iec/publicacions/REV2/B5.HTM

She said muncho instead of mucho.

My dad who was from Mexico thought it was funny.

An interesting url for the Ladino Language:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~benven/ladino.html

Gloria
who sometimes forgets and say muncho!!

Jáuregui/Xáuregui from San Sebastián

Great link Victor.  You are better than a search engine!  Thanks.

Maria Cortez

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "v.h.villarreal"  
wrote:
>
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Pacorro73@a... wrote:
> >
> > Now who ever said that the Jáuregui family was not discussed in 
José 
> > Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez de Frías' book titled Genealogía de 
> > Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII.  
That 
> > is totally NOT TRUE.  I already read the whole book from cover to 
cover 
> > and entered much of the information from the book into my own 
family 
> > tree.  Despite the abundance of errors, José Luis Vásquez y 
Rodríguez 
> > de Frías has a lot of great original research.
> > 
> > If anyone has the book, I invite them to open it to pages 76 
through 
> > 78, Capitulo 21-Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y 
Francisca de 
> > Siordia.  Their daughter Josepha de Siordia-Chávez, married Juan 
> > Francisco Jáuregui, in Nochistlán on 4 Dec 1662.

Historical Novelas

emilie,
 
Yes, they are like miniseries.  As I
understand it, a Mexican department store chain came up with the idea of
celebrating its 100 anniversary with a series of historical novelas, so they
commissioned the novelas already in existence plus others in the planning to be
put on CD, DVD, and tapes. They are fairly cheap to way cheaper on e-bay
than through other sources. Most are under 30 dollars.  some are adapted to
so many DVDS, others are complete.
 
Here's a list of  some that are available. The
summaries are not mine, they are found on the internet under various authors. to
find them just type in the novels' names and look for the one that rads the name
plus the word telenovela:
 
La antorcha encendida. Summary: Three centuries of Spanish domination. Three hundred years
in which the discontent roiling the population of New Spain has grown along with
their wounds of injustice, exploitation, poverty and discrimination. It is in
this awakening Mexico that the love

Odd names WAS

I am temporarily back home, so here are
some of the names you were wondering about. I have some of them in my family
also.  You'll notice that the spanish Priests never picked stupid,
insulting names, only uplifting ones and worthy of emulation.
 
Elvira 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:24
PM
Subject: RE: Odd names WAS Re: [ranchos]
Re: Godina Family

Here is a list of names in MY family
tree:
 
NARCISO           
=
Greek. From
the Greek word "Narkiso", means  " the wise one, "Aquel con
sabiduría". Was also the beautiful        
               
            young son of Cefiso
and Liriope in Greek mythology, whom Nemesis, the goddess of
vengeance punished.  It's        
               
        celebarated on 
29  October. 
 
ZEREFINA           =
(or Zeferina) (Serafina, Serefina Serafina, Seferina, Sarafina, Seferino,

Northern California book of the quarter

Maria,
 
Both of your suggestions are great, the important thing is that it's now open for discussion. It is possible some people might have read some books that they would be willing to loan or exchange with others. I do have to tell you that I am quite possessive of my resource books because I constantly use them as references and don't like to part with them or share them for fear that they will not be returned which happened on several occasions.
 
Alicia
 


readysetgo95814 wrote:

Alicia,
while I think it's a wonderful idea, I don't think I (or every
member) could commit to reading the same book. How about one member
reads a book of their choice and makes a presentation to the rest of
the group on the highlights
of the book.  We could also consider a
book-exchange.  I loan you one of mine and you loan me one of yours
and we exchange back at the next meeting.  At any rate, I'll add this
topic to our next meeting's agenda.
Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com,

Alberto Duarte: 1550: Suave!!!

Note to : Alberto Duarte.

 

Thank you for the information on Steven
Hernandez, Ill try to establish a connection with him.

 



style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----


style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Alberto
Duarte


Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:57
PM

Subject: Re: [ranchos] Alberto Duarte:
1550: Suave!!!


John, I was mistaken about the organization
the
gentlemen belong too...

Alberto Duarte: 1550: Suave!!!

John, I was mistaken about the organization the
gentlemen belong too; he told me it was called SHHAR,
not Somos Primos.  I'm trying to contact him through
SHHAR and once I do, I'll get his email address and
forward it to your attention.

In my search for the above unknown gentlemen, I found
a genealogist that does has information on the
original Gonzalez families from Los Altos that may
help you in your research. I've listed his name and
email address below.  Please contact him.

Steven F. Hernández
pacorro73@...
sfhernandez1@...

Regards,

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California


 
--- John Gonzalez 1gnzlz@...> wrote:

> 
> 1gnzlz@...
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Joseph Puentes 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:32 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Alberto Duarte: 1550: Suave!!!
> 
> 
> 
>   can you contact the Westwood FHC and ask them if
> they know who you are talking about? Maybe he is a
> regular patron of that FHC. I would

Jáuregui/Xáuregui from San Sebastián

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Pacorro73@a... wrote:
>
> Now who ever said that the Jáuregui family was not discussed in José 
> Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez de Frías' book titled Genealogía de 
> Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII.  That 
> is totally NOT TRUE.  I already read the whole book from cover to cover 
> and entered much of the information from the book into my own family 
> tree.  Despite the abundance of errors, José Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez 
> de Frías has a lot of great original research.
> 
> If anyone has the book, I invite them to open it to pages 76 through 
> 78, Capitulo 21-Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y Francisca de 
> Siordia.  Their daughter Josepha de Siordia-Chávez, married Juan 
> Francisco Jáuregui, in Nochistlán on 4 Dec 1662.  Juan Francisco de 
> Xáuregui was born in San Sebastián, Señoría de Vizcaya, España.  San 
> Sebastián is largest port city of the Basque country.  Jáuregui is a 
> BASQUE surname and our Jáuregui

Jáuregui/Xáuregui

Now who ever said that the Jáuregui family was not discussed in José
Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez de Frías' book titled Genealogía de
Nochistlán, Antiguo Reino de la Nueva Galicia en el Siglo XVII. That
is totally NOT TRUE. I already read the whole book from cover to cover
and entered much of the information from the book into my own family
tree. Despite the abundance of errors, José Luis Vásquez y Rodríguez
de Frías has a lot of great original research.


If anyone has the book, I invite them to open it to pages 76 through
78, Capitulo 21-Descendencia de Juan de Chávez Salguero y Francisca de
Siordia. Their daughter Josepha de Siordia-Chávez, married Juan
Francisco Jáuregui, in Nochistlán on 4 Dec 1662. Juan Francisco de
Xáuregui was born in San Sebastián, Señoría de Vizcaya, España. San
Sebastián is largest port city of the Basque country. Jáuregui is a
BASQUE surname and our Jáuregui ancestor was very BASQUE.
Unfortunately the 1662-marriage document never mentions

Fw: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

 
 
Hi Tony:
 
Incertidumbre
means:   Uncertainty
 
John Gonzalez
Wildomar, CA.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:43
PM
Subject: [ranchos] Fw: 'Que quiere decir
. . . . . '

Hello all,
 
Often I print out some of the group's messages that I think my husband
Tony would be interested in, and I had given him the latest discourses on the
novelas, etc. When he thought of something he wanted to ask the group, he
tried to send the e-mail below from his computer.  However, it bounced,
since he is not a subscribed member of the group.  Could someone answer
his question?  Thanks.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA . . .

 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

Q-Vo!
 
Back in the l940's when I was a

Fw: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

According to my trusted Spanish English dictionary, "incertidumbre" means "uncertainty".  I remember hearing this word too when family members were talking about how one could not predict what would happen at any time.  Mary

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Hello all,
 
Often I print out some of the group's messages that I think my husband Tony would be interested in, and I had given him the latest discourses on the novelas, etc. When he thought of something he wanted to ask the group, he tried to send the e-mail below from his
computer.  However, it bounced, since he is not a subscribed member of the group.  Could someone answer his question?  Thanks.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA . . .

 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

Q-Vo!
 
Back in the l940's when I was a chabalito in El
Paso and before the advent of television

Northern California book of the quarter

Alicia,
while I think it's a wonderful idea, I don't think I (or every 
member) could commit to reading the same book. How about one member 
reads a book of their choice and makes a presentation to the rest of 
the group on the highlights of the book.  We could also consider a 
book-exchange.  I loan you one of mine and you loan me one of yours 
and we exchange back at the next meeting.  At any rate, I'll add this 
topic to our next meeting's agenda.
Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo" 
 wrote:
>
> OK Northern Californian's, this is a challenge to us all. What if 
we 
> plan that for our next meeting in March we each present the name of 
1 
> book along with the author, the possible merits of the book to the 
> group and we vote on it as the book of the quarter. As the first 
book 
> it might be best if it's a book in english, a book we can all get 
> either through Amazon or any of the on-line booksellers and that 
the 
> book should

La Antorcha Encendida y La Sumaria Relacion

Victor,
 
I think your idea of sharing the genealogical information found in various
books is a great idea.  Then if someone wants to read more of the book for
him/herself, they can order the book or borrow it. 
 
I have a very old book, parts of which I will transcribe and send to the
group if there is any interest in it.  It was given to me in the 1960's in
Mexico City by my husband's aunt, a profesora.  She told me it would
provide me a very concise picture of the history of Mexico, since I told her I
knew nothing of my father's homeland.  I think she may have used the book
in her classes.  She taught English, so I don't know.  The book is
called "Historia de Mexico".  The frontispiece says "Apuntes de Historia de
Mexico (Edicion Privada) 1951, Impreso por Editores E Impresores, Beatriz de
Silva, S. A., Avenida Juarez 104, Mexico, D. F."  It has no authors
listed.  It has a bibliography and an Indice that is really just a table of
contents.  I was hoping for an

Ranchos Group Research Resolutions

my time is becoming more and more taxed. My resolution will be to hang
in here by a toe nail and continue researching my blood. hmmm, not much
of a resolution, but at least you'll all know that if I get quiet its
not because I don't love you all its because I don't have enough time
to express it.



joseph









Natalie wrote:

Feliz Año Nuevo!
So - what are your genealogical research resolutions or goals for 2006? 
A year ago I had hoped to be able to do much more than I accomplished 
(which, alas, was very little) - so I am once again going to establish 
some goals in hopes of focusing my efforts and making new discoveries.
I was just thinking of this today, so I haven't made any concrete goals 
yet, but I hope YOU will share YOUR goals, and I can get some good 
inspiration.
BTW - I like Alicia's idea of "Book of the Quarter" - a good way to 
increase one's knowledge; I look forward to seeing your recommendations.
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, ideas, expertise, and

Fw: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

Hello all,
 
Often I print out some of the group's messages that I think my husband Tony
would be interested in, and I had given him the latest discourses on the
novelas, etc. When he thought of something he wanted to ask the group, he
tried to send the e-mail below from his computer.  However, it bounced,
since he is not a subscribed member of the group.  Could someone answer his
question?  Thanks.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA . . .

 ----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: 'Que quiere decir . . . . . '

Q-Vo!
 
Back in the l940's when I was a chabalito in El Paso and before the advent
of television my mother used to 'hear' her novelas from Juarez on the
radio.
 
Two in particular I remember: one was called 'El Barco De La Ilusion' and
the other 'Incertidumbre.'
 
These were half-hour melodramas and had to do with the vicissitudes of life
and their ramifications.
 
I was

Ranchos Group Research Resolutions

Feliz Año Nuevo!
So - what are your genealogical research resolutions or goals for 2006? 
A year ago I had hoped to be able to do much more than I accomplished 
(which, alas, was very little) - so I am once again going to establish 
some goals in hopes of focusing my efforts and making new discoveries.
I was just thinking of this today, so I haven't made any concrete goals 
yet, but I hope YOU will share YOUR goals, and I can get some good 
inspiration.
BTW - I like Alicia's idea of "Book of the Quarter" - a good way to 
increase one's knowledge; I look forward to seeing your recommendations.
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, ideas, expertise, and 
adventures. It has been a great year!

Blessings to you all for 2006.

Natalie Castro Coleman in Virginia,
Primarily researching Castro, Garcia, and Dueñas from Hacienda 
Astillero, Valparaiso district, Zac., who eventually settled in the 
Guasti and Cucamonga, CA area.




Northern California book of the quarter

I loved Victor's suggestion, but wondered how we would pick a book that
would benefit the many of this group. I think I was more motivated in
working on the Colotlan census because I was from that area, but would
like to think I would have helped even if I wasn't from that area.



I'm in agreement with anything that will help us as a group or will
help certain of us within the group advance our knowledge.



joseph



ps: nothing says that we can't divide the group into quarters and
rotate clockwise as we pick a book concerning that area. Maybe we can
get all interested parties to chime in and we'll see what geographic
areas the participants are researching. in the mean time we can see
what group of books the N CA group comes up with and we can compare
lists. it seems to me that finding books in English that dig in and
cover our areas will be a challenge. We'll all have to be patient in
the choosing process.





Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo wrote:

OK Northern Californian's, this

Northern California book of the quarter

OK Northern Californian's, this is a challenge to us all. What if we 
plan that for our next meeting in March we each present the name of 1 
book along with the author, the possible merits of the book to the 
group and we vote on it as the book of the quarter. As the first book 
it might be best if it's a book in english, a book we can all get 
either through Amazon or any of the on-line booksellers and that the 
book should be $50.00 or less because some of these books are very 
expensive.

Once we have decided on a book we can communicate it to all of the 
Ranchos members. Anyone from Ranchos who wants to participate can do 
so.

And here's to all of Ranchos, what say you on this matter because it 
is now on the table for commentaries, suggestions etc.

Feliz Año a todos........Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo 

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Mary Allen  
wrote:
>
> Hello Victor:  
>    
>   I know this was addressed to Joseph, but I couldn't help but 
overhear!

Victors's reply to La Antorcha Encendida y La Sumaria Relacion

Linda,
 
I do read and speak spanish but some of these books in Spanish are a bit difficult for me to read but I will tell you that it has been a rewarding and taxing experience to read the book La Sumaria Relacion. You might laugh if you saw me with a 5 inch thick Spanish/English Dictionary and a couple of packets of post its on hand. As I find a word that I don't quite understand I write it down, search the dictionary, write the definition of each word. I then take a different colored post it and tack them onto each other and began my narrative based on 1) the word identification 2) connecting the words where they apply to the original text. As I said, taxing but rewarding and also a very slow process.
 
For some people it is probably very easy, for me it is not so easy but it is not impossible. Hopefully as time passes it will become easier but even so I would not think of not reading this book. It is packed
with great facts and historical data. My advice to each of you is to

La Antorcha Encendida y La Sumaria Relacion

Hello Victor: 
 
I know this was addressed to Joseph, but I couldn't help but overhear!  It sounds like a wonderful set of ideas.  Book reviews are good because most of us have limited time and to be directed to good, useful or interesting books is critical.  On the other hand,  it would be a real service to catalog vital information from certain books so that everyone doesn't have to search through the same books.  It would be a great reliable bank everyone could draw from.  But we have to give credit where credit is due....Alicia did get this started. 
 
Isn't it great?  The group weaves in and out but is never stagnant. The group is like a great tapestry. From the bottom you see a lot of apparently disconnected threads.  But, from the top, it all comes together into a great design! 
 
My work is wonderful but very
stressful.  I coordinate volunteer services for the terminally ill, my second career after 38 years in education.  At the end of the day, I am sometimes

History Books Data Mining (Was: La Antorcha Encendida)

Joseph,

I've thought of something similar but instead of getting a group
together to simply comment about or review a history book, which is
very good, to take it one step further and together create a
searchable database with all the data of genealogical relevance.

Something similar to what we were doing with "The Colotlán Census"
from the Archivos Españoles where each team member gets assigned a
chapter or section of a book and as he/she is reading it enters the
who, when, where and what data into a previously agreed form.

When everybody gets their part done it would be a simple task to
concatenate all the parts into a single searchable database. Then we'd
select another book and do the same and so on.

The other part of the idea is to have a user interface that you can
access online where one would select a book's title from the database
and then be able to search for a person's name and get a list of all
the instances that the name appears and the associated events to it.
You