TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
>
> Victor,
>    
>   I have taken these quotes from pages xxvii. 
>    
>   En los ultimos años del siglo muchos de los hijos y nietos de
conquistadores estaban reducidos a la miseria. Formaban o pretendian
formar una especie de aristocracia que desdeñaba todo comercio,
granjeria o trabajo honesto y faltandoles ya las encomiendas, se
alampaban a los empleos con tal furia que no dejaban respirar a los
virreyes y aun sofocaban a la corte con diluvio de memoriales y
relaciones de meritos.
>    
>   Para todo se creian aptos por solo su abolengo. Eran en suma, una
nube de vagos con humos de grandes señores que veian de reojo a los
españoles llegados despues de la conquista porque con mejor acuerdo se
dedicaban a trabajar en el comercio o en la labor de la tierra. De su
industria sacaban comodidades que los de alcurnia de conquistadores
veian con envidia, y la desahogaban con morder despiadadamente a los
que llaman

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
>
> Victor,
>    
>   I have taken these quotes from pages xxvii. 
>    
>   En los ultimos años del siglo muchos de los hijos y nietos de
conquistadores estaban reducidos a la miseria. Formaban o pretendian
formar una especie de aristocracia que desdeñaba todo comercio,
granjeria o trabajo honesto y faltandoles ya las encomiendas, se
alampaban a los empleos con tal furia que no dejaban respirar a los
virreyes y aun sofocaban a la corte con diluvio de memoriales y
relaciones de meritos.
>    

Alicia,

I have read the same type of thing/behavior in books in English,
specifically in "Miners and Merchants in Bourbon Mexico, 1763-1810" by
D.A. Brading (Cambridge University Press). The gachupines would be
willing to work but their offspring would consider themselves
self-styled nobility. This must have gone on for centuries as
successive waves of Spanish immigrants came to Mexico; authors have
argued that it is one of

My grandmother's half-brothers and half-sisters great-grandmother was a
Sandoval. My grandmother's father was married twice--the first time to
Ma. Eleuteria Tovar/Tobar. This woman's parents were Mauricio Tovar
and Petra Escovedo/Escobedo. Petra's mother was a Sandoval--maybe
Maria Theresa Sandoval. Marge:)

On Dec 26, 2005, at 9:20 AM, glo Sandoval-Fuentes wrote:

Hi Margarita,

Yep, we came from Zacatecas. Do you have Sandovals?



               ~~glo~~







From: Margarita Vallazza 
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Odd names WAS Re: [ranchos] Re: Godina Family
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:18:52 -0600

Glo,
Did your Sandovals come from Zacatecas?  My great-grandfather's first

wife's maternal grandfather was a Sandoval from either Jerez,
Tepetongo, or

Tlaltenongo (sp?).  Just wondering.  Marge:)
On Dec 22, 2005, at 8:04 AM, glo Sandoval-Fuentes wrote:

Peggy,

 I have two daughters, one is named: Angelita

Hi Margarita,

Yep, we came from Zacatecas. Do you have Sandovals?



              ~~glo~~







From: Margarita Vallazza 
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Odd names WAS Re: [ranchos] Re: Godina Family
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:18:52 -0600

Glo,

Did your Sandovals come from Zacatecas? My great-grandfather's first
wife's maternal grandfather was a Sandoval from either Jerez, Tepetongo, or
Tlaltenongo (sp?). Just wondering. Marge:)

On Dec 22, 2005, at 8:04 AM, glo Sandoval-Fuentes wrote:

Peggy,

I have two daughters, one is named: Angelita Maria and the other is
Tiffany
Coreena, my Angel says her name is to ethnic and just goes by Angel and
my

 Tiffany says her name is to caucasian...go figure huh!

Then my sons are Daniel Sam  and  Bernardo Sandoval, they neither one
care

 about their names! smile



                ~~glo~~







 From: "Peggy Delgado" 
 Reply-To: ranchos

Alicia,

A couple of things: the book you refer to deals with a much earlier
period of Mexico's history. La Antorcha Encendida has to do with the
Independence period.

Your review of Baltazar Dorantes de Carranza's book, "Sumaria
Relación" taken from its introduction threw me a little off balance
with all those adjetives applied to the creoles like "lazy arrogant
vagrants", etc.

I have that same book and the text itself is definitely not about
that. In fact, Dorantes de Carranza was himself a descendant of one
of the conquistadors and he was among those who asked for some
concessions, so how could he judge so harshly his own peers? It is
obvious that generalizations like those in your review can lead to a
wrong impression.

For another perspective on that matter I recommend Mazzotti's article
"Resentimiento criollo y nación étnica".
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~icop/resentimientocriollo.html

Victor

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
>
> Steve,
>

I buy tamales (de chile and de dulce) every year around this time and
share them with my daughters and grandkids. If I was home visiting my
sisters and my tias in El Paso, I would have a REAL Mexican Christmas,
too. Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año, primos y primas! Marge:)

I wanted to wish the members and families of this group a Merry 
Christmas. Your sharing of memories reminds me that this is a 
special time of year when we get to remember and smile with the 
stories of holidays gone by and stories of some lost traditions.  A 
bitter sweet time to remember those no longer with us and a chance 
to pass on traditions, foods and our personal family history to our 
children and grandchildren..

I called my widowed 85 year old father in California and he told me 
he had a 'A Real Mexican Christmas' My brother had bought Tamales 
and my daughter made beans, rice and Banuelos... Of course he and I 
talked about the days he's parents bought 60 pnds of beef and 60 
pnds of pork and the whole family would spend days making Tamales 
for Christmas Eve and enough for everyone to take some home too. We 
talked of the men sitting drinking, telling stories of their 
childhood holidays, the women cooking, laughing, chasing the 
children out of the kitchen and teaching

The conversation about historical novelas got my attention. I 
remember that several years ago, when I still lived in Mexico, I 
watched some episodes of a historical soap opera.

It was called "La antorcha encendida". I did not watch it often 
because it came out late at night and I had to go to bed early. 
Still, the few episodes that I saw were very interesting. The story 
was about a ficticious gachupin family from Mexico in the early 
1800's. They described what the fictitious characters went through 
during the independence movement and was based on real events. Many 
historical figures came out on the story, and I was particularly 
amazed when I saw the scene showing how father Miguel Hidalgo was 
captured and killed. Other independence leaders, like Morelos, were 
also part of the story.

Anyways, I did a google search and found out that the series is 
available on dvd at amazon:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009XRZQ0/102-1725244-9552917?
v=glance&n=130

I'm planning on

Browse this:
http://www.press.uillinois.edu/epub/books/levy/toc.html

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
>
> Victor, the only one who still speaks with that accent and uses
those words that sound strange or are unknown to Mexicans is my Aunt
Emilia who is 92 years old and is the last of her generation.  I have
heard that many descendants of 16th and 17th century Spanish settlers
have discovered their Sephardic roots which explains to them many of
their ancestors particular habits, but my mother and her other
siblings would not hear of it if they were alive.  They considered
themselves "Spanish" and denied being Indian, but lately my aunt has
spoken of their Indian blood (Piro/Manso/Tewa---Pueblo tribes).  I
haven't heard that speech since my mother died in 1985 and I live far
from my aunt who has remained in the Mesilla Valley of New Mexico all
her life, so I can't think of any particular word or phrase.  I will
ask my husband, since he used to

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "John Gonzalez" 1gnzlz@v...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ed:
> 
> I purchased a book from "Libros Latinos"  Here is their address:  Libros Latinos,  301  
9th St.  Ste. B.  Redlands, CA.  92374
> 
> Their phone number is:  909-798-1342
 
John,

Thanks. I actually live in Redlands, so I went down to their warehouse, which contains an 
enormous amount of Spanish language books: history, fiction, art, you-name-it. The 
people that work there are very intense and appear serious about what they are doing. 
They have been around for 20-25 years. Some of the reference books, property of the 
owner and not available for purchase, are to die for.

These people periodically go down to Mexico and purchase the books that are requested 
by people, assuming the requested book is not already in stock. Obviously, these Spanish 
language books are not cheap since it takes much effort and cost to find these books and 
transport them back to USA. I was impressed with their organization

Emilie,

What you refer to as the peculiar speech of the manitos sounds very
similar to Ladino, the dialect spoken by the Sephardim.  Have you
compared some of the words/expressions that you remember in both?

Victor
ho.ho.ho


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
>
> The 'manitos had been in New Mexico since Onate's time there, 1598,
but it could be that Cuba and Puerto Rico were settled by the same
group of Spaniards that settled New Mexico in the 16th Century.  I
agree that some of the speech is similar between the two groups.
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---

http://NuestraFamiliaUnida.com/XmasEveMessage12_24_2005.mp3

ho ho ho,

joseph