Dr.mt

More about Nopales

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    Alicia, I have thoroughly enjoyed your tidbits of
"nopaleslore".  Your ensalada de nopales is very similar to my mom's, with
the exception of the queso fresco.  I will have to add that next time I
make this dish.  I love having this over frijoles del olla, and
the queso would only make them better. 
 
    Joseph, ves lo que te has
perdido.  Next, you need to try
tunas if you haven't already!   
   
    I have also heard the
_expression_ regarding un nopal en la frente.  My folks used it all the time
to refer to someone who tried to hide their Mexican ethnicity.  My folks
are both from Jalisco, but it seems that some
branches (Lomeli--1600's) came from Nochistlan.  I'd love to
visit Nochistlan some time.  My mom even recalls her dad visiting a cousin
or two there.  I remember seeing a Nochistilan web page
too. 
    Fortunately my folks "forced" us to speak Spanish at
the table too.  Both of my folks are bilingual, but we always speak to them
in Spanish to this
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Indios de Jalisco y Zacatecas y Mexico

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Here is one webpage that has info on the various combinations of racial
mixes:



http://www.multiracial.com/readers/farmer8.html



=================



here is another article by John Schmal that gives some of the Indios of
Zacatecas:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenouszacatecas.html



and in general:



http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/jpschmal/jsindigenousmexico.html



also have a look at this issue of Somos Primos for another great
article on the Indigenous Languages of Jalisco



http://www.somosprimos.com/spmay02.htm#Indigenous  about page 77 but
also look at the pages following page 66 for some good information with
references for more reading materials.



also check this issue for this article: MORALES: 

FROM INDIGENOUS TO MEXICAN TO AMERICAN

  By 

Donna S. Morales and John P. Schmal



http://www.somosprimos.com/spsep02.htm#UNITED%20STATES



also check this article in this issue:


LEARNING ABOUT NORTHERN JALISCO

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More about Nopales

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Here's more on Nopales
 
My family originates from Zacatecas, specifically Tlachichila from the Municipality of Nochistlan. As we all know many people have migrated to the Norte or Los Estados Unidos or as many say El Otro Lado. I grew up in the US of A in San Jose Calif in an all Anglo community and one thing I didn't want to be was different from the rest of my class. However different we were. We had to speak spanish at home which for one who doesn't want to be different or admit to anyone that you're different this was a tough one to hide.
 
When we brought friends home we had to speak spanish to my parents and if someone stayed over for lunch or dinner we had tortillas, nopales, salsa, mole etc etc.( trying pretending that you're not Mexican). Our parents knew that we were ashamed and a famous saying was "what are you trying to hide, anyone who sees you can see the nopales on your forehead and hanging on your ears. Translation "De que to escondes, se te ven los nopales en la
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Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales, Ensalada de Nopales

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Ensalada De Nopales
 
Cut and clean the nopales. That is what we call it limpiar (clean) los Nopales.
 
Dice into bite size cubes. Boil in water with fresh oregano 2 sprigs, fresh cilantro two sprigs, two smashed cloves of garlic,  1/4 onion, 2 tsps salt. Boil until they reached the desired tenderness about 20 minutes. Drain and rinse thoroughly. Allow to cool completely.
 
Remove the smashed garlic, 1/4 onion, sprigs of cilantro and oregano.
 
1/2 onion, finely chopped
1 tomato diced
fresh cilantro chopped finely about 10 sprigs
1 cup queso fresco, diced or crumbled (this is mexican cheese) In California it's usually El Mexicano brand but there could be others. Other states I don't know.
1 serrano or jalapeno chile finely minced
For dressing, juice of 1/2 lemon, 3 tablespoons rice wine vinegar,  olive oil about 1/2 cup,
salt and pepper to taste.
 
Enjoy!  I guessed on the quantities because of course everything is passed on by word of mouth or visually you just put in a little bit
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Zacatecas and Jalisco Nopales

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Let me see how I can keep this on topic. . .



well might be better to send me any answers off list.



Quite possibly my great great grandmother Antonia Espinoza [dob: abt
1820] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas taught my great grandmother Antonia
Santa Maria [dob: 1862] from Tepetongo, Zacatecas who taught my
grandmother Virginia Diaz [dob: 1886] from Las Animas, Jalisco who then
taught my aunt Julia Puentes [dob: 1918] from Santa Paula, CA how to
make nopales and she this past weekend taught me [dob: 1953] from San
Jose, CA how to make them.



 Just yesterday was the first time I willingly ate
nopales and was pleasantly surprised that they were so so good. It
makes me wonder why I turned my nose up at them when I was a kid, then
again I hated everything that looked like a vegetable back then and I
love them all now.



Here's the recipe:



carefully harvest new nopales about the size of your hand



carefully dethorn them



wash them and cut in 1/2" cubes



boil them for 10 minutes and then
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Native American Dental Identifiers

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I found a webpage that identifies some distinct dental characteristics
of the Native American. Its kind of unclear as to if this is only for
Native Americans found in the US or if it reaches into Mexico. There is
enough information to contact someone at Arizona State University to
find out more.

If anyone is interested contact me off list and I'll forward you the
material.


joseph

Some Articles by John Schmal

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Jonathan,

Thanks for sending the group these interesting articles.  My 
favorite was "Indigenous Mexico: A Lost Connection" and I recommend 
everyone read that one.  Yes, it's a trip for many of us to look in 
the mirror every morning, and the more one becomes engrossed in 
genealogy, the more one becomes aware of the physical 
characteristics the Spanish, Indians, and blacks left us.

Alice


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Walker"  
wrote:
> Here is the link, to some interesting articles, written by John P. 
Schmal and Donna S. Morales, about Mexican history:
> http://www.houstonculture.org/mexico/schmal.html
> 
> Thanks,
> Jonathan 
> 
> Experienced Hispanic Genealogist - More Info:
> http://members.pcu.net/Hispanic_Genealogy/
> or http://hispanicgenealogy.4t.com
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Some Articles by John Schmal

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Here is the link, to some interesting
articles, written by John P. Schmal and Donna S. Morales, about Mexican
history:


 

Thanks,

Jonathan

 
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Fw: Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004

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Title: Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004
 
Everton's Newsline--27 May 2004
Daily Special
The Handybook for
Genealogists
10th Edition

Regular:
$59.95
Sale:
$29.95
more info

Confirming Genealogical Information Using Catholic
Church Confirmation Records
By Lynn Turner

Confirmation
records found in Latin American Catholic parish registers have
proved to be an invaluable asset to genealogists.  These
records usually contain the name of the person being confirmed and
names
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Luz Montejano's website

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Ms. Montejano is a genealogy researcher, 
in Mexico.  The site has some genealogies from Chihuahua, Sonora, and other
areas of Mexico.  Also, there is a article about "Los Altos de
Jalisco."

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 
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1903 Sagrada Mitra

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With regards to the Sagrada Mitra:



1) "Are those records found in all the Diocesis or are they
specific to Guadalajara?"



I found this record for a primo hermano of my Abuelo. And it says that
on 15 June 1903 a dispensa for the Sagrada Mitra was administered. I
looked in the "Informacion Matrimonial" records for the Santa Maria de
los Angeles, Jalisco area where they were married and found nothing.
The scanned record says: Zacatecas, Zacatecas and I was going to order
this film and have a look since I don't see specific Sagrada Mitra
films for Zacatecas [Información matrimonial 1903 VAULT INTL Film:
245160]



2) Where can the Sagrada Mitra films for other diocesis be
found?



3) or are the records in Guadaljara but since they end in 1899
i'm just out of luck?



4) If one had a Dispensa after 1899 for the Guadalajara
Diocesis where would one look?



5) Are records available via direct order through the different
diocesis by mail for a price?



=======================



misc questions
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FHL Lookup Service

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One of the little known services, of the Family
History Library, in Salt Lake. Is the copies by mail service:

 

This is what the Family Search, site says about
it:

 

"


face="Times New Roman"> Ordering Copies by Mail

To obtain photocopies of a few pages from a book or a few frames of microfilm
or microfiche, please
href="http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/frameset_rhelps.asp?Page=./research/type/Form.asp&ActiveTab=Type"
target=_top>use the appropriate Request for Photocopies form available on this
site. Copies cost U.S.$2.00 each, with a U.S.$4.00 minimum charge. Please
follow the instructions found on the form."


I am uploading copies, of the request
forms.

 

This is a way, to get copies of the original
records, without having to order the film or goto Salt Lake, to see the
book.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 

Attachment:
FReqIGI.pdf

Description: Adobe PDF document

Attachment:
FReqMicrofilm.pdf

Description: Adobe PDF document

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Salt Lake Trip

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Dear Jonathan,

 

There is a record that I would love to see:

 

Lope Ruiz de Esparza

Spouse:  Francisca Gabay  Abt. 1594, Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes

Batch: F868327

Sheet:  009

Source call:  1396258

 

I've been reading on message boards (I like to see what the non-serious researchers are up to) that Francisca Gabay's mother was a Moctezuma, and most likely a descendent of the Aztec royal family.  My curiosity is killing me.

 

Thanks,

 

Alice


Jonathan Walker wrote:

I am going to be at the Family History Library, in Salt Lake City, on Saturday, May 8.

 

If anyone needs, a record lookup. Let me know, and I'll get it, for you.

 

Thanks,

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan, Utah 84341

 

Experienced Hispanic Genealogist - More Info:
http://members.pcu.net/Hispanic_Genealogy/

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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Hello Alice,

I have a family stories to share regarding this subject as well as 
the Cristiada.

My paternal grandfather, Francisco Sánchez, was a Cristero.  The 
Cristero rebellion affected my father's family greatly.  When the 
government took action against the Cristeros, my grandfather had to 
move his entire family out of their homestead (San Nicolas de los 
Abundis) to Guadalajara.  They were forced to leave everything 
behind and the family suffered great hardship as a result.  They 
eventually moved back to San Nicolas and had to "start over". My 
grandfather felt betrayed by the Catholic Church.  When the 
government took action against the Cristeros my grandfather felt 
that the Church should've stepped in more and help the Cristeros.  
Instead, they stood idly by and did nothing to help those who risked 
their lives to defend the Church.

On the subject of land redistribution: my father purchased several 
acres of land in a coastal area in Jalisco called "El Tule" back in
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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Steven,



How wonderful that you had the opportunity to do such extensive research on Mexican history.  I have a question for you.  I was raised by a family whose origins were from Los Altos.  They were one of the hacenderos families, and did not seemed touched by the Cristero movement - how could this happen?  When the property was transferred to this family's grandfather, he lost it in gambling, which forced the family to move to Guadalajara (1940's).  Recently, one of the brothers was able to repurchase the old ranch/hacienda and is now living there again.  How could a family go untouched with all this happening around them?  Or are there possibly family secrets that I am not previed to yet?

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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Steven,
 
Now that was the most interesting thing I've read about Jalisco, ever.  I think you're right that the stories I've heard were about the Cristero Rebellion and not the 1910 Revolution.  I'm going to share your interesting message with others. 
 
Just this morning I found a chapter in the "Retonos de Espana" book that said the 1910 Revolution didn't affect the Altenos and I was thinking that these old-time Carpinterians were telling tall tales.  One man (a De Alba) talked of his family losing everything and that as a child he was sent to the U.S. and taken in by some people.  Because the man sharing the story seemed like an average guy, I always had a hard time believing any of it.
 
I even remember hearing stories that my grandfather and one of his brothers (Santiago & Benjamin Martin Del Campo) left Jalisco and didn't want to return because of the Revolution.  Their mother made a special trip to the U.S. to talk them into returning, but they wouldn't budge and she left
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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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In Los Altos de Jalisco, people did not lose land because of the Revolution of 1910.  There was little to no involvement by Alteños in the land power struggle and mainstream of the Revolución.  That as we may or may not know, involved land redistribution in various areas of Mexico, notably Durango, Chihuahua, Morelos, Guerrero, etc.
 
However, since the Cristero Rebellion is considered part of the greater Mexican Revolution, and because the Cristiada DID in fact play a greater role in the history of Los Altos, I would venture to say that these individuals are referring to the Cristiada, which actually took place from 1926 to 1929.
 
During the Cristero Rebellion, Los Altos de Jalisco became the focal point of the religious whirlwind.  Most Alteños gave financial, physical, moral, and spiritual support to the priests-in-hiding and the Cristero Rebels.  In order to stop this continuous support by the local people, the Mexican federal government ordered everyone within a designated
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Land Redistribution in Los Altos Region of Jalisco

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Hello Friends,

I come from Carpinteria, CA where many people from the Los Altos 
region of Jalisco settled (aside from having the "World's Safest 
Beach" Carpinteria had the last segregated school in California).  
Anyways, some of the old-timers claim that their families lost land 
in the Revolution of 1910.  I'm a bit skeptical and am curious if 
anyone has heard similar stories from their families.  Any feedback 
is appreciated. 

Thanks,

Alice
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New file uploaded to ranchos

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Jonathan,

 

Thanks for your help.  Unfortunately, I was unable to find the information for "El Papalote" when looking at the previous census link (maybe my problems stemmed from it being in  Spanish).  Would you be so kind to do one for Jalisco as well?

 

Thanks again,

 



Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER01.pdf
  Uploaded by : walkerjona
  Description : Aguascalientes

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER01.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona






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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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Census Info

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I have uploaded the census information, for
Aguascalientes, Jalisco, and Zacatecas. Into the Files section, of Ranchos,
under the filename "Mexico Census Info".

 

 

Jonathan Walker
1140 North 230 West
Logan,
Utah 84341

 
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New file uploaded to ranchos

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER32.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona  
  Description : Zacatecas 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER32.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona
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New file uploaded to ranchos

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER14.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona  
  Description : Jalisco 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER14.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona
Read full topic ➜

New file uploaded to ranchos

Published by Nuestros_Ranchos –
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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ranchos 
group.

  File        : /Mexico Census Info/INITER01.pdf 
  Uploaded by : walkerjona  
  Description : Aguascalientes 

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ranchos/files/Mexico%20Census%20Info/INITER01.pdf 

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

walkerjona
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SLC Record Look-up/Thanks Jonathan

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Jonathan,

thanks so much for making this generous offer. I just had Kitty Cortez
help me so wonderfully in her recent trip to SLC of which I am so grateful.

I kinda did have one small look up if you wouldn't mind, but put it on
the back burner if the list starts to overwhelm you with requests:


===================

ANTONIO AVILA/DOMINGA BARRIOS parents of JM husband of felipa de
Aniceto Puentes who are possibly 4th cousins somehow:


MA. SECUNDINA AVILA BARRIOS

01 JUL 1874 Santa Maria Mecatabasco, Villa Del Refugio, Zacatecas,
Mexico:

  	Father:  	ANTONIO AVILA 	Family
  	Mother:  	DOMINGA BARRIOS 	
	C605393  	1873 - 1875  	1094630
================================================
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