Dialog of the Dead --> with the Living

Emile, you are great.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Emilie Garcia  wrote:

> Victor,
> 
> As usual your observation is as astute as always.  I
> did identify with some of the debaters, those that
> took the middle road.  I think we all need to get
> together and advance our situations by sticking
> together and not going off on tangents to the
> extremes, such as the Aztlan group.  It is
> unfortunate that those in that group do not realize
> that people like Pat Buchanan stir the Anglo
> populace up by making it look like that fringe group
> speaks for us all, and that we are all into
> "Reconquista" which brings up to the Anglos the
> specter of armed brown hordes seeking to re-conquer
> the land.  We are slowly re-conquering anyway, due
> to the American economy being so dependent on cheap
> Mexican labor in manufacturing, agriculture and
> services.  We just need to tone down our resentments
> and work towards ensuring that this country

DNA is undeniable

Not only blacks...
Sorry to say that not only blacks have denied their
own race but many of those of Mexican blood have done
the same, even in my own family.  Such shame can be
spread among most of us.  Most of this shame is due to
ignorance.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California 

--- Alicia Carrillo  wrote:

> Here is an interesting article in the San Jose
> Mercury News titled, ''DNA is undeniable''. It was
> sent to me by my brother, very interesting and so
> relevant to what we have been discussing this week.
>    
>   Alicia
>    
>   DNA is undeniable -- we're all closely
> related``Every year,'' I once overheard my father
> say jokingly to a friend, ``thousands of Negroes
> disappear.'' I remember my 8-year-old imagination
> going into overdrive, picturing people zapped from
> their homes in the middle of the night. It was only
> as I grew older that I realized that the people my
> father was talking about were choosing to disappear,
> running away from

DNA is undeniable

I just wanted to say to everyone that all the words echoed during the past
week could have been my own....from feeling more American than Mexican, to
feeling persecuted because of my skin color, to others insisting that my humble
family's origins must have been "cultured" because of the way I look/act,
language issues, identity issues, Chicanoism, etc....
 
I also wanted to add something to the article about DNA.....long time ago,
when a cousin of ours was marrying into an African-American family, the
discussion came up about our real possibility about having African blood in our
maternal side of the family (Luna/Herrera from Zacatecas).  Many of us have
hair so curly that we wore "afros", others straightened their hair or wore those
great big curlers at night (lol).  Thankfully, today our curly hair is seen
as fashionable, and I wear mine free-flowing often.
 
This family "whispering" eventually led me to do some research on African
Diaspora in Latin America as an

DNA is undeniable

Here is an interesting article in the San Jose Mercury News titled, ''DNA is undeniable''. It was sent to me by my brother, very interesting and so relevant to what we have been discussing this week.
 
Alicia
 
DNA is undeniable -- we're all closely related``Every year,'' I once overheard my father say jokingly to a friend, ``thousands of Negroes disappear.'' I remember my 8-year-old imagination going into overdrive, picturing people zapped from their homes in the middle of the night. It was only as I grew older that I realized that the people my father was talking about were choosing to disappear, running away from their families, not being taken from them. They were light-skinned blacks who could move into the white world undetected, denying their...
The full article will be available on the Web for a limited time:

target=_blank>http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/editorial/13578167.htm

(c) 2006 MercuryNews.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.

Netflix en español anyone?

Anyone interested in watching movies in Spanish whether from Mexico, Spain, Argentina etc, Netflix has a very good selection. We saw one tonight titled Vengo, we especially enjoyed the music, scenery and the short movie that follows the regular movie.
We of Mexican descent are not the only ones questioning who we are. The director Tony Gatlif is Algerian born, living in France and was a gypsy in Spain, don't you just love it. Here is a short summary of the movie but it does not do it justice. It was like being in a small town in Mexico only they spoke with a heavy Spanish accent but fortunately they have sub-titles.
 
By the way Netflix has a great selection of spanish speaking movies (also a bad selection) but you get to choose either way.
 
 
 
This passionate story of a blood feud centers on Caco (Antonio Canales), a proud man who must fight for his family's honor and safety. After his daughter dies, Caco transfers his protective love to Diego (Orestes Villasan Rodriguez)

I am Joaquin

Rosalinda, I had not heard of this author or poem before.  It's the 
first time in a long time I cried while reading something.. so 
powerful.. I can understand why Joseph wants it recorded.  Thank you 
for making me aware of it. I love this group!

Linda in Everett




Fw: Unable to deliver your message

Emilie--
 
As a moderator, I can see a list of people whose email is bouncing for whatever reason.  It then asks us if we want to send you an email to ask you to reconfirm your address.  That's why you were sent the message, and I hope the issue is resolved.  Let me know if it isn't.  Who knows why computers do what they do?  I have given up trying to understand the mysteries of life. :)
 
Rosalinda
Ranchos Moderator


-----Original Message-----
From: Emilie Garcia
Sent: Jan 13, 2006 8:33 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Fw: Unable to deliver your message

Has anyone else received a message like this from Yahoo Groups?  I don't understand why it bounced on their end, or why e-mail from the group have bounced back to them.    I keep my mailboxes empty by deleting each message after I read it.      Emilie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: Unable to deliver your message


We are

The Black Legend

>From what I remember, the Black Legend refers to how
the English tried to portray the Spanish. It refers to
the idea that the Spanish had a cruel streak within
them, as evidenced by the Inquisition that was
happening in Spain to the known abuses that some
Spaniards inflicted on Native Americans. The Black
Legend is sort of a case of the victor writing the
history--especially, after the English victory over
the Spanish armada in 1588, making the English the
undisputed ruler of the seas.

I hope this helps.

Chris Pineda

--- Joseph Puentes  wrote:

> 
> What is the Black Legend?
> 
> joseph
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Fw: Unable to deliver your message

Has anyone else received a message like this from Yahoo Groups?  I
don't understand why it bounced on their end, or why e-mail from the
group have bounced back to them.    I keep my mailboxes empty by
deleting each message after I read it.     
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:47 PM
Subject: Unable to deliver your message


We are unable to deliver the message from auntyemfaustus@...>
to
ranchos@yahoogroups.com>.

Your
email account has been bouncing mails.  This means that emails
sent to
your account over several days have been returned to us.
This is sometimes
because mail boxes are filled up, or because of
configuration problems. 
To reset your Yahoo! Groups account, please go
to http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs?edit=2
 

For further assistance, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

--- Begin Message ---

Aha!  Now I think I know how surnames came to be so confusing in Mexico.  John

Fw: [ranchos] Double surnames

I was told that this message was bounced by the Yahoo group.  Hope it
goes through this time.    Emilie
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Double surnames

Aha!  Now I think I know how surnames came to be so confusing in
Mexico.  John's example of his wife tacking on her mother's and her
husband's surnames to her father's surname, may explain part of the reason why
people in Mexico were so inconsistent in the use of surnames.  It is like
too many cooks in the kitchen spoiling the soup.  When you are dealing with
more than one surname, it is very likely for clerical errors to be made in
documents when such a complex system is used. 
 
I recall working in a large county hospital in California where many
non-English speaking Mexican citizens came for treatment, and the confusion with
the surnames that would cause several charts under various names to be set up
for

Who are we? was Re: double surnames





lareina2@... wrote:

The issues of acculturation and assimiliation run deep
and are painful in this land of multiethnic and multicultural groups. 
What do I call myself?  Who am I?  Much of the pain of the generation
that follows the immigrant one often causes much confusion, and
sometimes, self-hatred and denial of ancestry.  How can I call myself a
Mexican when I can speak only a rudimentary Spanish and only visited
the birthplace of my grandma and great-grandma once?  When I visit
Mexico, I recognize its beauty and its devastation, and when I land in
the United States, I am happy to drive my sedan, go inside my condo,
and turn on my tv to "Law and Order."  Both my parents are of Mexican
descent, but both were born in the US.  On my mom's side, both my
grandparents were born in the US as well.  When my maternal grandfather
was offered the opportunity to visit deep into Mexico (not Juarez or
Tijuana), he said, "My parents left Mexico for a
 
I remember as a child

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

Alicia,
 
Regarding immigrants from lands other than Mexico:  When I was working
in San Jose, I saw the first immigrants from Vietnam back in the 1970s, who were
appalled by our habits of individuals eating whole steaks when in Vietnam the
same amount of meat would have fed a whole family.  Yet, little by little,
I saw them gain weight, and their English improved with the help of their
children, born here, going to school and speaking only English.  Since the
kids liked eating at McDonalds as their American friends did, the mothers saw
the convenience of taking the kids there for dinner rather than going home and
fixing dinner when they were tired from their jobs.  Also, I once watched
show on TV about a spelling bee that took place in the South where the winner
was a young girl of Vietnamese descent.  She had such a drawl that had
I closed my eyes, I would have sworn I was listening to a blue-eyed, blonde
Southern belle!  They learned quickly that "when in Rome, do as

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

Rosalinda,
 
What a great group this is.  I agree with everything you say, but you
should not feel guilty about anything --- not about not being fluent in Spanish
(English is the language of this country), about enjoying the fruits of your
labor (that is why our ancestors left Mexico), about the plight of the new
immigrant (you can fight for them by voting in their favor, coming to their
defense when someone bad mouths them in your presence, sending contributions to
those on the front lines of sober activism), etc.  You are doing your job
as you said you do, in your classroom.  As for that student that wonders
why you should be teaching English when you are Mexican:  don't let him
make you feel different; it is he who perceives you as different.  (Makes
me wonder what he has learned at home).
 
I too had to learn English and forget my Spanish and ended up being
more articulate in English than many who have never known any other
language.  (As a second grader, I could

Dialog of the Dead --> with the Living

Victor,
 
As usual your observation is as astute as always.  I did identify with
some of the debaters, those that took the middle road.  I think we all need
to get together and advance our situations by sticking together and not
going off on tangents to the extremes, such as the Aztlan group.  It is
unfortunate that those in that group do not realize that people like Pat
Buchanan stir the Anglo populace up by making it look like that fringe group
speaks for us all, and that we are all into "Reconquista" which brings up to the
Anglos the specter of armed brown hordes seeking to re-conquer the
land.  We are slowly re-conquering anyway, due to the American economy
being so dependent on cheap Mexican labor in manufacturing, agriculture and
services.  We just need to tone down our resentments and work towards
ensuring that this country remains the bastion that it has been for human rights
for everyone.  We can't afford to take any backward steps.  We must
acculturate, but

double surnames

Yes, Peggy,  regarding your comment about not knowing which is
worse---comments about your ethnicity from Anglos or from Mexicans:  my
husband was made fun of by a group of Mexicans in the Marines when he went out
on the lawn at Camp Pendleton to lie down and try to get a tan.  Though he
was as white as snow, they still thought it was inappropriate for someone named
Antonio Garcia to get a tan, that only "gringos" should do that.  Also,
when he hears someone speaking Spanish and he joins in, he gets surprised
looks. As for the comments from Anglos, I recall another incident at his
workplace later that someone told him, "Oh, I didn't know you were
Mexican.  The only Mexicans I have ever known were little brown guys
working construction".  Yes, the political incorrectness comes from both
sides.
 
Emilie
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Allen
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:37
PM
Subject: RE: [ranchos] Re: double

double surnames

Emilie and all,

I've been enjoying your messages and agree with you about identifying 
myself as Mexican.  My 25 year-old son said it best when he told one 
of his friends that his parents were both Mexican, so that makes him 
Mexican.  He is pretty Americanized, but still appreciates his 
Mexican culture.  He doesn't define himself by his ethnicity, but 
that doesn't mean he isn't proud of it.

Emilie, I chuckled at your comment about Aztlan.  I'll have to 
remember to ask if it's south, east, north or west of Atlantis next 
time I hear it.

Maria

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"  
wrote:
>
> Linda,
> 
> When some Anglo says "you don't look Mexican" it means that you 
don't look like his idea of Mexicans formed by most of the Mexicans 
he has seen---field or orchard workers, very dark, made darker by the 
sun, very small due to their mostly Indian blood, pitch black hair 
and eyes, poorly dressed, not too clean due to their constant labor 
in

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

Reading all of your thoughts makes me
wonder what my children will feel. I guess I come from a completely different
side. My parents are (of what we know) of Irish, Scottish, and American Indian
descent. I have no relatives that I know from
Mexico but my husband is from Mexico. Before we were married I had to confront some beliefs and
feelings that were very ingrained in me that I never knew I had. I struggled
with the idea that the man I loved and wanted to share my life with was from
Mexico. I am embarrassed to say I felt that way. The term Mexican to me
was always kind of a derogative term. Early on when we were just dating I even
wished he was from another part of the world that sounded more exotic. I was a
missionary and learned Spanish and I was comfortable helping families but that
was were my comfort zone ended. Time teaches you many things. I wondered
whether the differences I thought we had were too wide for us to be able to
gap. Remembering my thoughts makes me

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

I used to have a problem with the name or term Chicano/Chicana. When my son was in college and took Mexican/American studies he gave me a different perspective and I now accept that term without feeling denigrated.
In addition to accepting this term I accept many other terms, the way I see it is we still can't figure out who we are, what we are called or what we call ourselves so why should I expect others to know. To me the most important thing is to feel good and comfortable in my skin. There are times I choose to be more Mexicana and times I choose to be more Americana and yes I know Mexico is America but I use Americana loosely as in Gringa. I have the freedom to be both and I consider that a gift, a choice that I make on a daily basis. Some of my habits are from my parents and ancestors and some are newly acquired from my adopted land.
I do have to say that the reason I do geneaological research is to know more about who I am, where I come from and
what makes me tick and why

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

ORALE CARNALITA: ROSALINDA
Sabes me dio mucho gusto saber que tu eres una de los/as descendientes del movimiento CHICANO de los 60's. I, too like your father was there in the middle of the borlote.  We in those years came up with the name of chicano/a to identify ourselves as mexicanos de aca. Theres is noting wrong about the term chicano, however it needs to be explained why it came to be...

Alberto Duarte
wrote:

Good write up...
I have in the past felt that same way as you have
written.  And this is the reason I enjoy and indulge
in genealogy--to learn who I am and where I came from.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- lareina2@...
wrote:


---------------------------------
The issues of acculturation and assimiliation run deep
and are painful in this land of multiethnic and
multicultural groups.  What do I call myself?  Who am
I?  Much of the pain of the generation that follows
the immigrant one often causes much confusion, and
sometimes, self-hatred and denial of

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

I agree and could not have said it as well.
Aqui esta un dicho bien dicho. "A la tierra que fueres hacer lo que vieres". meaning ''in the land that you go to, do as you see. This not only applies to our race and culture but to all other immigrant races and cultures. I have had this conversation with good friends who are of Italian, East Indian, Vietnamese, Persian, Japanese etc.
We all experience the same emotions, stirrings and questions about inculturation, about the loss of our ancestors' heritage and traditions and our language. I believe that some lose their ancestors' identity alltogether and some straddle both cultures and some never leave their ancient cultures.
I have evidence of all of the above just within my siblings. My oldest sister is the most entrenched in our parent's culture and heritage. Two of my youngest siblings have moved completely away from our Mexican Culture and three of us straddle both
cultures leaning equally to both sides, the Mexican and the

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

I was asked this past week at work (I'm a library clerk) by a black gentleman if I had Indian blood. I responded that I did, on my father's side but that it was so remote as to be almost impossible to name. (Moctezuma's daughters are my ancestresses.) My father's father's mother probably had Indian, but what kind, who knows?



Anyway, I wasn't insulted just surprised. The funny thing is is that my features are my Scots mother's but my coloring is a paler version of my dad's. I have salt and pepper hair like my Jerezana grandmother and her almond-shaped eyes. I have funny colored eyes...I don't think they're those eyes we were discussing earlier in December. Sometimes if my skin flushes or I'm red from being out in the sun, they're almost hazel. I DO consider myself Hispanic as opposed to Mexican because I had more Scots influence in my formative years and I'm married to a South American of Italian descent, so our family is more continental than Mexican. But I can't and don't

Who are we? was Re: double surnames

Good write up...
I have in the past felt that same way as you have
written.  And this is the reason I enjoy and indulge
in genealogy--to learn who I am and where I came from.

Alberto Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- lareina2@... wrote:


---------------------------------
The issues of acculturation and assimiliation run deep
and are painful in this land of multiethnic and
multicultural groups.  What do I call myself?  Who am
I?  Much of the pain of the generation that follows
the immigrant one often causes much confusion, and
sometimes, self-hatred and denial of ancestry.  How
can I call myself a Mexican when I can speak only a
rudimentary Spanish and only visited the birthplace of
my grandma and great-grandma once?  When I visit
Mexico, I recognize its beauty and its devastation,
and when I land in the United States, I am happy to
drive my sedan, go inside my condo, and turn on my tv
to "Law and Order."  Both my parents are of Mexican
descent, but both were born in the US.

dialoge of the dead?

Linda I understand about them words. I consider myself a Mexican Indian
female. And I dont like it when someone calls me Chicana, Hispanice or
Latina. Because to me I am none of them titles. Just my 2 cents.




              ~~glo~~







From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long" 
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] dialoge of the dead?
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:08:57 -0000

Joseph, WOW!!!!

What a great format for airing our concerns about who we are as a
group of people as diverse and any other ethnic group!

My father hates to this day the word "Chicano" because in his younger
days in California it was used in a very negative, gang style manner.
To him it's a put down and very militant.  I guess that's how we pick
up our own racist attitudes, we learn them at home... I still cring
when someone calls me Chicana.. so much to unlearn and with the help
of forums like this I'm getting better!

thank you again Joseph
Linda in Everett