TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Alicia: I understand that there is a term, that has been passed down for generations.

"hijos de la Iglesia"

Happy Hunting/Helyn

alice_wissing wrote:

Thanks everybody for your interesting feedback.  Another perspective
is that if an illegitimate child was born of an Indian woman without
a last name and a man with one, the child would be given the
father's last name by default.

As far as some states never mentioning or listing the father's name,
why would the priests try so hard to protect his identity?  Double
standards, perhaps, or is there a Catholic or cultural thing I'm not
understanding?

Thanks - I always learn so much from this group.

Alicia

---

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size=2>-----Original Message-----
From: alice_wissing
[mailto:alice_wissing@...]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004
9:20 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos]
Responses to my Names Message

Thanks everybody for
your interesting feedback.  Another perspective
is that if an
illegitimate child was born of an Indian woman without
a last name and a
man with one, the child would be given the
father's last name by
default.

As far as some states never mentioning or listing the father's
name,
why would the priests try so hard to protect his identity? 
Double
standards, perhaps, or is there a Catholic or cultural thing I'm
not
understanding?

Thanks - I always learn so much from this
group.

Alicia

Thanks everybody for your interesting feedback.  Another perspective
is that if an illegitimate child was born of an Indian woman without
a last name and a man with one, the child would be given the
father's last name by default.

As far as some states never mentioning or listing the father's name,
why would the priests try so hard to protect his identity?  Double
standards, perhaps, or is there a Catholic or cultural thing I'm not
understanding?

Thanks - I always learn so much from this group.

Alicia

Thanks everybody for your interesting feedback.  Another perspective 
is that if an illegitimate child was born of an Indian woman without 
a last name and a man with one, the child would be given the 
father's last name by default.

As far as some states never mentioning or listing the father's name, 
why would the priests try so hard to protect his identity?  Double 
standards, perhaps, or is there a Catholic or cultural thing I'm not 
understanding?
 
Thanks - I always learn so much from this group.

Alicia

Hello Janet.

I think I had contact with you in the past. I am sorry to tell you, 
but my Cervantes ancestors are all from the Zacoalco area (Santa 
Catarina, San Marcos, Atotonilco el Bajo, San Andres, Los Pozos). 
Also, I strongly believe that my Ramirez line is from El Crucero, a 
town close to Zacoalco.

However, I do have ancestors from Atenguillo and Acatitlan, which is 
close to Guachinango. My family surnames from this area are Curiel, 
Diaz, Pena, and Casares, but I have not researched these lines a lot. 
Something interesting that I have noticed is that everytime I know of 
someone researching this area, they all have a Curiel branch on their 
family tree. I bet that you do, too. Once, when I was checking a 
baptism book from Atenguillo, I noticed that "Curiel" was one of the 
most common surnames in the index. Up to this date I have confirmed a 
family tie to only one other Curiel researcher, but I am confident 
that all the Curieles around this area descend from a single

And also, why would only a first name be listed for a mother? I see this
all the time while perusing the IGI.

I too have noticed that at times the mother's surname is not listed
on one christening record and is written on others. However, with the
records I've researched, when the surname is not ever mentioned, she
probably was Indian. The father's surname is often not mentioned either if
he was Indian, especially in the 1700s.

~Deena Ortiz~

Hello. During my research, I once found a record of an illegitimate 
child just by chance. I was checking the baptisms in Atotonilco el 
bajo/santa clara, Jalisco of children with the last name Cervantes. 
Most of them were not related to me, but I found a girl whose last 
name was Cervantes. she was the illegitimate daughter of a woman with 
the last name Hernandez and of my greatgrandfather's brother Bacilio 
Apodaca. However, she was not named neither Apodaca or Hernandez. 
Why? Because in the record it showed that this child was not claimed 
by the father, but by the paternal grandmother, Guadalupe Cervantes. 
So, in this case, the child inherited the paternal's grandmother's 
maiden surname. 

I believe there's not a standard about naming illegitimate children, 
since my second great grandfather Evaristo Ramirez kept the last name 
of his father, even though he was a natural child.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "alice_wissing"  
wrote:
> While looking at the

-----Original Message-----
From: alice_wissing
[mailto:alice_wissing@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004
4:56 PM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos]
Names

While looking at the International Genealogical
Index I came across
an ancestor possibly having a child with a woman other
than his wife
during the late 1700's.  The child carried the father's
last name
only (no mother's name attached at the end)and only the mother's

first name was listed.  I was under the impression an illegitimate

child never used his father

While looking at the International Genealogical Index I came across 
an ancestor possibly having a child with a woman other than his wife 
during the late 1700's.  The child carried the father's last name 
only (no mother's name attached at the end)and only the mother's 
first name was listed.  I was under the impression an illegitimate 
child never used his father's last name, so this confused me.

I've ordered a copy of the entry from the History Center, but it 
will take weeks for me to receive it.  In the meantime, does anyone 
know if there were strict standards regarding an illegitimate 
child's use of a father's last name?  And also, why would only a  
first name be listed for a mother?  I see this all the time while 
perusing the IGI.  

Thanks,

Alicia

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