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Hi, Everyone:

I seem to be having trouble posting messages. They keep getting returned as
Undeliverable, but I will keep trying.

Anyways, I read some of the old messages and found another that is very
informative. I have been putting together a family cookbook in order to
preserve traditional recipes. Thanks be to God, my mom had her mother's
capirotada recipe and I was blown away by the ingredients, tomatos, cheese
and such. Now, since I've read that these are some of the ingredients used
for a lenten dish, I am not so dismayed. My mother said that her mother
made it for Lent and it was a family favorite handed down. My grandmother
was called "La Tapatia" and my mother, since she was born in Guadalajara,
was also called that by her aunts, which made her feel very special.

Corrine Ardoin

Soy Roberto Rojas nieto de Maria Teresa Villalobos Sandoval en linea paterna. Mi abuela estaba avecinada en la ciudad de Lagos de Moreno Jalisco, pero al casarse, cambio de lugar de residencia. Mi bisabuela caso en segundas nupcias con alguien de nombre anastacio Huerta. Al morir joven mi abuela se perdio en gran medida informacion concerniente a la familia Villalobos. De la cual posteriormente me entere hay información escrita en un lugar llamado mesa de los Villalobos. La razon del cambio de residencia se debió al oficio comun de aquellos días de los varones (la mineria ). Estoy interesado en profundizar más acerca de las familia Villalobos y comparto está información con la finalidad de que le sea de utilidad a algun miembro de Nuestros Ranchos

Alicia,

I think you asked what "J2" means. I found the description in Gary Felix' website" http://members.tripod.com/~GaryFelix/index63.htm

The description reads: "Semitic origin. Mostly found in the Middle East, Mediterranean and North Africa. About 28% of Sephardic Jews have this origin".

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

http://lomexicano.com/mexicanfoodrecipeglossary.htm#r

While I was using the glossary in the link above, I saw a recipe for Enchiladas Zacatecanas. They are made with shredded pork and a sauce made with roasted green chiles and cream, and they are served topped with cooked shredded carrots and shredded potatoes and cheese, and slices of avocado. Scroll down until you see "Zacatecanas".

I am anxious to try these, since I cannot eat the green enchiladas with that green sauce made with tomatillos. Those are too highly acidic, and I suffer from acid reflux disease. The cream would also further smooth out the acid from the green chiles.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---

I love to try new recipes, especially for the holidays, and I am seldom daunted by the complexity of some. However, I am kind of stumped by the recipe Joseph put up in the files, but I want to try it. It sounds so fancy, what with the meringue topping, and I love desserts with nuts. (By the way, the recipe lists "dos huevos", but in the directions, they only used the whites to make a meringue).

Alicia, maybe you can help me. I was able to translate most of the ingredients using my Spanish-English dictionary, but some things were not listed there, or I don't know where to obtain some ingredients.

Grajeas -- "small sugar plums". Where would I get these? When I lived in Santa Clara Valley, we had sugar plum trees in the yard, dark with yellow flesh, the kind they make prunes from, I guess. Could I substitute dried prunes?

Biznagas ---"candied cactus". Do most Mexican import stores have this?

Molde refractario -- "refractory". Does this simply mean "heat-resistant"?

Batir las claras a punto de turron --- "beat the whites to the point of nougat consistency". Does this just mean to beat the egg whites until they are stiff?

My mother made a capirotada very similar to this; however, she didn't use the peanuts, meringue, candied cactus, grated coconut or sugar plums.

Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA --

Estimado Joseph Puentes:
Te envío mi investigación genealógica. Se trata de un resúmen, pues tengo
más información de las principales líneas que se integran en las diversas
generaciones. No me he limitado a las cuestiones puramente familiares, sino
que he recuperado el contexto de sus vidas en ranchos, estancias y
haciendas. Actualmente investigo los apellidos Romo de Vivar; González de
Hermosillo; Díaz de León; Muñóz de la Barba y Beltrán de la Cueva, que
sonfamilias puramente españolas. Sin embargo, en la línea Ojeda-Palomino y
Candelas-Palacios, encontré diversos ancestros en calidades de castas:
"moriscos", "mulatos", "saltapatrás" y "lobos", todos siendo esclavos hasta
1821, en la servidumbre de la hacienda de "Trancoso", Zacatecas pero
procedentes, ¡que interesante!, de ancestros en el Africa Occidental.
Saludos
P.D. Te pido una disculpa por la demora, pues ha sido por razones de
trabajo.

_________________________________________________________________
Prodigy/MSN. Más Útil Cada Día http://www.prodigy.msn.com

If you’re interested in the Archives of the Indies I want to recommend an excellent book:

Discovering the Americas: Archives of the Indies.

It’s a recent over-sized volume and gives a great overview of the archive itself and its contents, including pictures of original documents, sketches and drawings and actual samples of materials sent from New Spain and other territories, including samples of silk and other fabrics that look brand new, rather than five hundred years old.

I regret that I never made it to the Archives of the Indies in Seville.

I was a royal scholar at the Instituto de Cooperacion Iberoamericano in the Moncloa in Madrid during the summer of 1986, and enjoyed a wealth of acculturation. Every Friday our art professor took us to the nearby Prado Museum where we spent an entire morning experiencing hundreds of masterpieces.

We went on field trips to Toledo where we visited El Transito Synagogue and many other places of interest.

I also got to go to El Escorial. And the Zarzuela Palace in Madrid. And a magnificent Egyptian Temple relocated piece by piece from Egypt ahead of the rising waters of the Aswan High Dam.

But not the Archives of the Indies:(

Even when my sister and I visited Seville for Expo ’92, we somehow missed the archives.

Good Evening to All, Just wanted to let everyone know how much I appreciate Joseph's kindness and patience in helping this novice with the uploading of my folder and file. I continue my research on my Onate and Santelices genealogy in Panuco, Vetagrande, Villa Garcia, and Zacatecas, Zacatecas; Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes; and Guadalajara, Jalisco. Wish me luck, and thanks so much. Alice B.Blake

Esther:

In response to your question for Joseph, the index of the AGI or Archives of the Indies is digitized along with those of the major Spanish archives in a website run by the Ministry of Culture in Spain.

The website is called Archivos Españoles en Red (AER) and the link is available in the LINKS section of the Nuestros Ranchos site.

http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/

As far as using it, you have to sign up for an account and searching is a bit of a crapshoot I have found because many of the search criteria do not work.

As far as searching passenger records, the best bet is to do a general search, use two fields and put the name in one and the work "pasajero" in the other. If the last name is uncommon, just the last name is best but if it is a common name, you will have to try different permutations of the whole name in quotes, i.e. "Jose Godoy", "Jose de Godoy", "Joseph de Godoi", etc.

There are some guides to using AER:

http://www.genealogica.net/aer.html

http://www.cubagenweb.org/ships/e-index.htm

Hi,

I have a research question about the following information. I wanted to
know if anyone knows whether this is true or not. "Mexican customs and
passenger lists do not begin until 1903, except for documents relating to
the expulsion of Spaniards during the period 1820-1850." Also, "all persons
traveling to New Spain had to be cleared by the Casa de la Contratacion in
Seville."

The reason I am looking into passenger lists at this time is because I am
also researching my Cabral/Figueroa line, which almost immediately takes me
to their point of immigration. My great-grandfather Alberto Martin Del
Campo married a woman named Francisca Cabral Gonzalez, a first-generation
born Mexican, whose mother and father immigrated to Mexico, Pioquinta
Gonzalez Figueroa of nobility from Madrid, Spain and Benigno Cabral, a
merchant sailor from Portugal. They eloped, sailing out of Seville,
possibly the 1850's, and got married in Zacatecas against Pioquinta's family
wishes. So, if the customs and passenger lists did not begin until 1903,
does this mean I won't find a record of their immigration?

BTW, someone placed on the IGI two people with these same names as having
been born in Guadalajara, Benigno Cabral and Pioquinta Gonzalez. If they
are the same people as my ancestors, then I think they're wrong, because
they were not born in Mexico. They didn't cite their source for that
information, however.

Corrine Ardoin

Hi,

I have been researching the Martin Del Campo name on the Family Search IGI
and found a couple that may be connected to my family line. It appears
someone has been doing microfilm research on the family, because there is a
lot from the same source, the Nuestra Senora De Guadalupe Church in
Guadalajara, Jalisco. The furthest back I have in my family history is a
Tomas Martin Del Campo who married Nieves Munoz Aviles and that they resided
in Guadalajara. Their son's marriage record spells the names just this way
as I have. The IGI record shows a marriage between a Tomas Martin Del Campo
and a Maria De Las Nieves Munes, which makes me wonder if these are the same
people. I plan to look into this for myself because, if it is them, then I
have found their parents, as well, which will take me one more generation
back in my ancestry. Their parents names given are Alejandro Martin Del
Campo and Tomasa Romero (Tomas's parents) and Jose Ynes Munes and Ysidra
Alcala (Maria de las Nieves' parents). Tomas and Maria de las Nieves were
married on August 31, 1850, according to this record. My Tomas and Nieves,
based on their son's age at his marriage, I guessed would have been married
about 1850-51, so it may be the same people. Still, I have to check on
that. I have made mistakes before, so eager for someone to be the one I'm
looking for!

Another Martin Del Campo tidbit: The name "Martin" means "warlike." Mar is
from the Greek word for war (Mars being the God of War). Del Campo means
"of the fields" or "of the countryside." So, they were the Martins Of The
Fields or Countryside. Looking at Steven Hernandez' information that the
Martin Del Campos he researched came from Revilla de Campos. I looked on
the map and the Campos River runs through there. I wonder which came first,
the people and towns named for the river or the river named for the people
and towns?

Take care,
Corrine Ardoin

Hi, Everyone:

I was again catching up with old archival messages. Almost there. Anyways,
I came across a discussion on the pronunciation of Guadalajara. I, too,
found out it was named after Guadalajara, Spain, an Arabic name. The part
of the name, "al," means "the" in Arabic. Like in "Alhambra," in the Los
Angeles area.

Corrine Ardoin

Genealogia.org.mx] 6301 Re: POR QUE DEJARON DE IMPORTAR LOS ANCESTROS

Hola a Todos:

Saludos desde La Perla de Ocidente, mi bella Guadalajara:

I was going through some back issues of Ancestry
Magazine, and came across an article entitled "A
Footnote to Remember", by Jaime Pacheco. His research
is in the Chihuahua area, but the article is
interesting. Then I found that the article was
on-line.
This is the URL:

www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=8280

What I found interesting was reading about the process
and methodology for problem solving.
I am always looking for new ways to approach and break
through those "brick (or maybe I shoud say "adobe")
walls", or at least reading about how others have done
so.
It is about 6:30 on a Saturday morning here in
northern Virginia - the sky is clear - and the harvest
moon glows like a golden orb in the sky. I hope all is
well with each of you.

natalie coleman

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

How do you get your messages sent in digest mode? I am not too very
computer savvy and havn't been able to find this out on my own.

Thanks!
Corrine

Hi, Everyone:

As I mentioned in my many other messages, I am now adding my quarter's worth
to the discussions. One of the old messages (forgive me if this is already
known and some of you are going, "Well, duh") talks a bit about Spanish
spellings, y for I, etc. I found the following in an Hispanic Genealogy
book (Sorry, it's late and I'm too lazy to find out which book right now):

Interchangeable Letters:
i-y: used interchangeably until less than 100 years ago.
b-v: used interchangeably even today- also "u" for "v".
j,x,g: used interchangeably by 1550, by 1850 "x" not used as Spanish "j"
sound when used before "i" and "e".
c,s,z,ss: used interchangeably in early Spanish, along with "x,". C,s, and z
still used interchangeably, depending on location.
i-e,a-o,a-u,o-u: used interchangeably in early Spanish and in some regions
still today.
ch-ll: used interchangeably depending on region.
b-p,c-g,d-t: as late as 1700, these interchanges can be found, a carry over
from Latin.
l-r: used interchangeably, some regions more than others.
m-n: used interchangeably between vowel and consonant in words, significant
specifically in names.

Latin Influences:
c-q: Latin "qu" becomes Spanish "cu", such as from quando to cuando.
ff-ph: "ph" introduced into Spanish from Latin to express sounds in
Greek-origin words, such as filosofia to philosophia.
Impure "s": from "es" sound at beginning of words in Latin, sometimes "is,"
later dropped, such as espiritu to spiritu.
Insertion of letters: when Latin spelling is followed closely, such as santo
to sancto, bautizar to baptizar.
Letter "h": may be omitted or added or substituted by "g" or "f". "F" is
used in words now having "h", such as fijo to hijo. Persists into 16th and
17th centuries. "H" may be replaced with "g", such as guevo and huevo. You
can pronounce the words outloud, the "h" is silent, so the meaning will
become clear.

I keep trying to send this message. I hope I'm not jamming up things
resending and resending.

Hi, I have been catching up with reading the archival messages, though I
have to be honest I am not reading every single one, but I did find many of
interest I would like to add my own comments to. One told how people say,
"but you don't look Mexican." Well, I have had many people tell me that,
too, and what is hurtful about it, is that they say it as a compliment!
Like, they mean, "Don't worry, Corrine, you don't look at all Mexican, so
you can rest easy." Can you believe it? Well, it's true. I didn't know
that others had this experience, so I am very thankful to them for sharing
about that and about my Mexican ancestors that came to the United States and
became ashamed of being Mexican. I, too, am saying, "This has gone on long
enough in this family. Now's the time to come out of hiding and be proud of
our heritage."

Corrine Ardoin

Hi,

I'm tracing the line of Leonor Cortez Moctezuma, the daughter that was never recognized by his mother Isabel Moctezuma. I have found some records about she was married with Juan de Tolosa, but in others mention that she was married first with Cristóbal de Valderrama, infact the line that goes to Petronila de Moctezuma comes from this one.

Juan de Altamirano (his descendants become the counts of Santiago Calimaya) took care of Leonor Cortez.

I'd like to know if this Leonor Cortez married with Cristóbal de Valderrama is the same that later married with Tolosa. You can check this link:

http://groups.google.com.mx/group/Genealogia-Mexico/msg/62b3788a4ebcaebb

Please don't forget that there was a Leonor Moctezuma (half sister of Isabel).

Does anyone has records about this subject? I mean, records that could prove that the investigation is 100% accurate?

Thank you
Alfonso

Does anyone know what the population was during varying census throughout
the centuries?

Helyn,

Have you seen either of these IGI records:

PEDRO JOSEPH CORREAS
Male
Marriages:
Spouse: MARIA DE LUNA
Marriage: 10 FEB 1779 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
M600818 1736-1807 0445047

JOSE DIONICIO CORREA
Male
Marriages:
Spouse: MA. MARIA LUIZA CORREA
Marriage: 01 JUL 1815 Tepechitlan, Zacatecas, Mexico
Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.:
M600819 1807-1848 0445048

I wanted to know if the parents were listed on either one.

Thanks,
Angie Godina

>
Thank you Rose. I tried that, using Babelfish to translate for me,
but the site would not accept my address or phone number. I will
give it another try tomorrow. Maybe I did something else wrong and
I'll be more successful tomorrow.

Linda

For anyone who is having a difficult time researching in and around Archivos Espanoles en Red. This is how I navigate around the site. I've been using the site for about 3 to 5 years now.

http://aer.mcu.es/sgae/index_aer.jsp

Signing on was difficult for me since I don’t read Spanish very well. I use Google and/or Babelfish for translating spanish.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Once you get your logon, and your on the site, click on "Busquedas".
From the next page go to the upper right hand corner-"Otros Criterios de Busqueda", scroll down to "Contenido" and enter a surname. You can click on "Anadir Contenido" as many times as you need to in order to narrow down a search. I usually do two of them and enter a surname and first name, or a surname and a location. (remember to use different variations of spelling for surnames and even the location name)
You'll have to click on "Otros Criterios de Busqueda" again if you do two or more Contenido's. Because the expanded version disappears. Hit the Buscar button, the site won't let you hit enter on your keyboard.....in fact it'll give you an error. (I still get errors because I'm going too fast). If you get an error, just click on the back button on your Internet Exployer/ Netscape navigator.

I tried Archivos y Fondos and found it wasn't as easy as what I'm used to doing.

As an example: "Lope" on one line and "Ruiz" on the other line. Volla! Lope Ruiz de Esparza's passenger information appears on the first page.

When the results appear and there is a green and red camera icon- those are the digital documents. I click on the red camera and the digital window appears which downloads the document. I usually multi-task and while I have the window up downloading the documents, I work on another search....The thing to remember is that if you click on another camera you override the previous digital information.....sometimes I get carried away and forget that I needed the previous digital information and have to go back to the results page again.

I have saved several digital documents on my computer and they will save as JPEGS.

I hope this informaton helps those new genealogist out there

Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Fresno, CA

I'm afraid I don't remember who had Mauricio Tovar in her line but he was mentioned and now I have a connection but not to my family.. My question is he's living in District of Jerez but was he and his wife Maria Petra Escobedo originally from Tlatenango? I've found children in the IGI and wondered if it was the same family in Jerez so I can enter them in my records
thanks, Linda in B.C.

AliceBB wrote:

>Good Morning, Yes, thank you so much for your efforts. That indeed is my greatgrandfather and that is exactly where my trail for Francisco Santelices or Rosalio Onate using online sources has ended. I'm waitng on micorfilm
>
well you are so so fortunate that this is your great grandfather and
great grandmother (I assume unless this is another marriage). This gives
you the location and hopefully the marriage record will tell you where
he and she originally were from. Hopefully the record will give the
names of their parents. Hopefully the continued to live in Panuco and
some of their children were born and raised in Panuco. That film you are
waiting for is the key to a great start of your genealogy search. Now
that you have the basis to make your start you need to gear up to dig in
and search that film. Make sure you make copies of that record and write
down the film number, volume number (on the film) and page and record
number if they are available. Everything you find on your family you
need to carefully write down your sources so someone else looking at the
record can easily duplicate your research. . .which is what people 5
generations from now will be doing and be very thankful to you for
making that part of the research easy for them.

Also if you want to get daring and make the assumption that your great
grandparent started their family in Panuco why don't you try ordering
this film to see if you might not find some of their children on it:

Title
Registros parroquiales, 1658-1936

Authors
Iglesia Católica. San Juan Bautista (Pánuco, Zacatecas) (Main Author)

Notes
Microfilme de manuscritos en el archivo de la parroquia.
Algunos tomos incluyen índice.
Parish registers of baptisms, confirmations, marriage petitions,
marriages, and deaths from Pánuco, Zacatecas, Mexico.
Some records are gathered into books that reflect social class.
Some volumes include indexes.

Subjects
México, Zacatecas, Pánuco - Church records

Format
Manuscript (On Film)

Language
Spanish

Publication
Salt Lake City, Utah : Filmados por la Sociedad Genealógica de Utah,
1974-1987

Physical
44 carretes de microfilme ; 35 mm.

Film Notes
Note - Location [Film]

Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1892-1899 - FHL INTL Film [ 1093330 ]

When searching the FamilySearch.org and the IGI. Try a exact name search with both parents surnames only.

1. Enter both surnames in the last name field.... i.e. Gonzales Calvillo
2. Enter Country....i.e Mexico
3. Check the box (Use exact spelling)

This will give you everyone in Mexico with the parents Gonzales and Calvillo. Try different corruptions of the surnames. Calbillo, Gonsales, Gonzalez, Goncales, Goncalez. It can be time consuming....but it's better than not finding anything when in fact your families are really there...or until the LDS church can load all the extractions in.

It's true sometimes L looks like S's on documents. Don't be afraid to try it.....i.e Moya, Moia, Molla

Also, If you know the region, try a batch search....this is very fun. In fact I just taught a lady two weeks ago who was stuck on her family, and with this trick she ended up finding nearly the the siblings and where the parents were married.

1. enter last name only
2. enter region
3 enter state

This will give you everyone in that state, scroll thru until you find someone within your town and time period. It doesn't matter if there not yours. Select that person. Go to the area where the batch number is located. Click on the batch number. Enter any name you like in any field. I.E. fathers first name only.....best to use mothers last name in the mothers last name field. If entering mothers last name only all women will appear and sometimes you will find miss spelled names on the father...that's how I helped my new friend.

There is no need to enter complete names, sometimes less is better.

Have Fun....

Rose Gonzales-Hardy
Fresno, CA