CALAVERA POEMS

Hi Yolanda,
Thanks for the confidence, but I'm very limited in the
creativity department.  What a wonderful gift that your suegrita gave her
children.
i



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Yolanda Bobby
Perez
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 6:29 PM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ranchos] CALAVERA
POEMS

Gracias Irma,  that was my first
calavera ever.  My husband says that one must be inspired when writing one
and that the person it's about must be your guide.  Mi suegra, que en paz
descanse, wrote one for each of her children and they treasure
them.  Give it a try and you might surprise
yourself.    I did!
Yolanda Medina
Perez
 

Irma GomezLucero
wrote:
Excellent Calavera.  How cool is that. 
Muy bien dicho!
Irma



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
Puentes
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:39 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject

Romero ancestors [ranchos] Re: Digest Number 651

Hello Emilie and Linda,
   
I also have some Romero ancestors:
 
 Antonio Romero who married Maria de Jesus Castellano
in La Barca, Jalisco (Feb. 12,1820)
 
They had the following children:
 
Jose-Ramon  & Dario-de-Jesus  Bap. 12/21/1820
(Tala, Jalisco)  East of Guadalajara.
Ma. Ygancia-del-Refugio Bap. 1832  Union de San
Antonio, Jal.  --Stone's throw from Tepatitlan...
Pablo-Rafael-del-Refugio Bap. 1821 Tamazula del Refugio,
Jal.  --little further...
Joaquin  Bap.1837 Atotonilco, Jal---Stone's throw from
Tepatitlan
Ma.-Guadalupe Romero (My maternal grandmother's Great
Grandmother)
 
 Don't know much else about my Romeros.  It would
be interesting to see who your G Grandfather, Manuel's parents are.  Makes
me wonder though if there's a connection.  Maybe some of the names
above  might tie into yours?  I would be interested if you find
anything after looking at the marriage record that Arturo
mentions.
 
 
Irma


Tlaltenango Census - Miramontes Family





aajay1073 wrote:

Steven,

As an FYI... the Census was posted in the file section

I've deleted it from the file section. . .its only in the links area.



joseph

 and is also 
available in the link section.  As a note, the census doesn't give 
any specific information on families just on landowners/head of 
household.

I too am following the Miramontes Family from Tlaltenango.  Just 
wondering if you want to exchange some info...

Thanks,
Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Steven F. Hernández" 
 wrote:
  
I have not checked my email in a very long time, but this email 
    
caught my
  
eye right away.  Lorenzo de Miramontes is my ancestor so I am 
    
interested if
  
it mentions any of his immediate family, as well as the family of 
    
his
  
brothers, sisters, and/or his parents and other children.  

How would you send such a document?  Would it be a computer file or 
    
the
  
actual copy

Mexican Border

Glo,

Here is some information:

Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hildalgo

Maps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:National-atlas-territorial-
acquisitions.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Territorial-acquisition-uscensus-
bureau.jpg

If the links wrap be sure to recreate in address bar.

- Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "glo Sandoval-Fuentes" 
 wrote:
>
> I would like to hear further on this because I always thought that 
Mexico 
> did own California too, like till the beginning of the 1900's?
> 
> 
> 
>                ~~glo~~
> 





Mexican Border

I would like to hear further on this because I always thought that Mexico
did own California too, like till the beginning of the 1900's?




              ~~glo~~







From: "Edward Serros" 
Reply-To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Re: Mexican Border
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 16:32:03 -0000

Angie,

As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico owned much of
the
Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). Spain
owned the
Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I hear the
statement that
Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people remember the
dates well or

fully understand the entities involved.


Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073"  wrote:
>
> Emilie,
>
> Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone
> with a similar experience as your sister...  There response was "I
> didn't cross the border it

Tlaltenango Census - Miramontes Family

Steven,

As an FYI... the Census was posted in the file section and is also 
available in the link section.  As a note, the census doesn't give 
any specific information on families just on landowners/head of 
household.

I too am following the Miramontes Family from Tlaltenango.  Just 
wondering if you want to exchange some info...

Thanks,
Angie


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Steven F. Hernández" 
 wrote:
>
> I have not checked my email in a very long time, but this email 
caught my
> eye right away.  Lorenzo de Miramontes is my ancestor so I am 
interested if
> it mentions any of his immediate family, as well as the family of 
his
> brothers, sisters, and/or his parents and other children.  
> 
> How would you send such a document?  Would it be a computer file or 
the
> actual copy of the original manuscript?  I will pay you good 
moneyyou're
> your trouble.  Please send it to my email address:
> 
> PacoHernandez73@m...
> 
> I now use this address way more than

Mexican Border

Ed,

Sorry...I have a tendecy to simplfy things and generalize...  I fully 
understand what you mean.

Thanks,
Angie

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Edward Serros"  wrote:
>
> Angie,
> 
> As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico 
owned much of the 
> Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). 
Spain owned the 
> Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I 
hear the statement that 
> Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people 
remember the dates well or 
> fully understand the entities involved.
> 
> 
> Ed
>




Mexican Border

Angie,

As a point of clarification, the independent country of Mexico owned much of the 
Southwest for only a few decades (1810/1820 time frame to ~1848). Spain owned the 
Southwest for centuries. The only reason I bring this up is that I hear the statement that 
Mexico owned California all the time and I am not sure people remember the dates well or 
fully understand the entities involved.


Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "aajay1073"  wrote:
>
> Emilie,
> 
> Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone 
> with a similar experience as your sister...  There response was "I 
> didn't cross the border it crossed me!"
> 
> Here in Southern California...even though almost all the cities and 
> streets are in Español.  People seem to forget that Mexico use to own 
> all of the Southwest States.  And even though the border was moved to 
> its current location, many of the people stayed.
> 
> As for me, I have been able to successfully trace most

Records for "No Pagados" and some others.

Joseph,
 
Count me in.  Let me know when you are
ready.
 
Elvira
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:45
AM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Records for "No
Pagados" and some others.

Oigalo, Arturo! buen idea Jose Roman!

Arturo if you find
a new source of records in Colotlan and/or Totatiche, let's see if the LDS
library would consider sending a crew. In fact if you let them know ahead of
time that you are making the trip they might give you "tips" on how to prepare
for a "future" microfilming trip. I think this along with your call for
volunteers for the Colotlan Census is something that could very much benefit
future genealogist. you could make a difference!

Along that lines I've
been thinking of making a call for volunteers, but am not ready yet. My
project is the Notario records of Guadalajara. I was thinking that if 25
people volunteered to look at 1 or 2

Records for "No Pagados" and some others.

Jose Roman:
 
 
What you are suggesting is exactly what I did for
the town of San Juan de Guadalupe, Durango.  I had been trying to get info
from there for about  25 years and the priests would not relent.  The
registro civil was okay but that was it. I found out that the LDS church would
pay for the microfilming and I started campaigning.  I was fortunate to
meet the president of the Sociedad Genealogica del Norte de Mexico (Benicio
Sanchez). I told  him my situation and he started campaigning 
with both the San Juan  de Guadalupe and the registro civil  to obtain permission to film the
records. They were filmed about 2 and a half years ago and are now in the LDS
library.  I really wanted them filmed because a big chunk of my family
settled there over 200 years ago. 
 
It took me about five years of campaigning and
educating the priests about what microfilming is and  selling the idea of
preservation. I had to hard sell the fact that the Mormon Church would pay
for

CALAVERA POEMS





Yolanda Bobby Perez wrote:

Gracias Irma,  that was my
first calavera ever.  My husband says that one must be inspired when
writing one and that the person it's about must be your guide.  Mi
suegra, que en paz descanse, wrote one for each of her children and
they treasure them.  Give it a try and you might surprise yourself.   
I did!
Yolanda Medina Perez

no digas mas, me vas hacer llorar! Gracias Yolanda.






Irma GomezLucero wrote:
Excellent Calavera.  How cool is
that. 
Muy bien dicho!
Irma



From:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of
Joseph Puentes

Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:39 AM

To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [ranchos] CALAVERA POEMS


forgive me. . .I meant to reply the same day but decided to
wait and

then promptly forgot.



wow! you make me feel like a god. . .how many can say they've had poety


written for them. I'm sure

Records for "No Pagados" and some others.

Oigalo, Arturo! buen idea Jose Roman!



Arturo if you find a new source of records in Colotlan and/or
Totatiche, let's see if the LDS library would consider sending a crew.
In fact if you let them know ahead of time that you are making the trip
they might give you "tips" on how to prepare for a "future"
microfilming trip. I think this along with your call for volunteers for
the Colotlan Census is something that could very much benefit future
genealogist. you could make a difference!



Along that lines I've been thinking of making a call for volunteers,
but am not ready yet. My project is the Notario records of Guadalajara.
I was thinking that if 25 people volunteered to look at 1 or 2 films a
year that we could start giving the Nortario records a much better
index than is currently available. There is real "gold" in those
records for many and possibly for many of us, but the way they are
catalogued its like looking for a needle in a haystack. I'm not sure
but if we took one film and

Records for "No Pagados" and some others.

Hi:
 
When a new record or group of records is found in the source original (manuscripts), and it is not preserved in other media, I think that we should contribute to preserve them. One way to do this is write a notice to the "microfilm production project of the Mormon Church", because they has demonstrated that they can resolve this hard labor with their economic resources; the Mexican government generally not pay attention to this work because for the cost that they can't like to finance.
 
Is only a idea!
 
JRGL.
Mexico City.

Joseph Puentes  wrote:

Great Stories Elvira. . .i didn't know about the "No Pago" records but just had a feeling that there were and continue to be an assortment of records in each parish that have not been microfilmed and have not been made available to the general public. Your stories show this is true. Thanks for sharing and keep your accounts coming.

If you ever want to get some of your families oral history recorded and up on my podcast let me know. This

CALAVERA POEMS

Gracias Irma,  that was my first calavera ever.  My husband says that one must be inspired when writing one and that the person it's about must be your guide.  Mi suegra, que en paz descanse, wrote one for each of her children and they treasure them.  Give it a try and you might surprise yourself.    I did!
Yolanda Medina Perez 

Irma GomezLucero wrote:
Excellent Calavera.  How cool is that. 
Muy bien dicho!
Irma



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Puentes
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:39 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] CALAVERA POEMS

forgive me. . .I meant to reply the same day but decided to wait and
then promptly forgot.

wow! you make me feel like a god. . .how many can say they've had poety
written for them. I'm sure this will make my wife jealous, I can wait to
tell her!

Thank you Yolanda, what a nice thought and yes I do believe I'm getting
help from my primos, tios, tias, etc.

muchisimas

[Fwd: Mariano Gonzalez-Leal Speech]

thanks Emilie for this contribution:



-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Mariano Gonzalez-Leal Speech
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:43:20 -0800
From: Emilie Garcia
To: makas@...




Hi, Joseph,
 
I don't know if we can attach files to send to the group in an
e-mail, so I am sending the attached file to you to see if you think it
is appropriate for the group.  It is a speech made in 1998 by Mariano
Gonzalez-Leal to the II Encuentro Internacional Oratorio de San Felipe
Neri Mexico 1998.  I have seen this author mentioned by the group so I
started browsing the internet to see where I could find his books, and
I found this.  Apparently he was speaking to a group of priests, and he
was appealing to them to help us in our role in the third millenium.
The speech touched on some of what some of us have been exclaiming
about:  that the average Anglo here is so

CALAVERA POEMS

Excellent Calavera.  How cool is that. 
Muy bien dicho!
Irma



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph
Puentes
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:39 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] CALAVERA
POEMS

forgive me. . .I meant to reply the same day but decided to wait
and
then promptly forgot.

wow! you make me feel like a god. . .how
many can say they've had poety
written for them. I'm sure this will make my
wife jealous, I can wait to
tell her!

Thank you Yolanda, what a nice
thought and yes I do believe I'm getting
help from my primos, tios, tias,
etc.

muchisimas,

joseph


Yolanda Medina-Perez
wrote:

>A tradition in Mexico is the writing of a CALAVERA for

>friends,family, public personalities and politicians.  Calaveras
are
>meant to be funny, they are not meant as eulogies, but are mild

>teasing.  There's usually some sort of rhyme, and they can be

>several lines to several stanzas in length.  They can also be poems

>of

Zaldívar surname from Zacatecas.

Hi, there! I am descended from the Zaldivars you've mentioned below. However, my PROVEN descent from them does not carry forward the Zaldivar surname. My great-grandmother was Francisca Saldivar, d/o Geronimo Saldivar and Petra Gomez; Geronimo Saldivar was the s/o Narciso Saldivar and Maria Antonia Morillo. (It's through Maria Antonia's mother, Juliana del Carmen Villavicencio that my family descends from the Zaldivars mentioned in your note to me.) Narciso was the s/o of Juan Josef Zesario Saldivar and Antonia Rossalia de Llamas; and Juan was the s/o Joseph Saldivar b. around 1700 in Zacatecas and his second wife Maria de la Luz Ortis. Joseph's my Zaldivar brick wall. I don't know anything more about him other than he had sons with his first wife. Sincerely, Marge Vallazza:)



On Nov 8, 2005, at 9:36 AM, José Román González López wrote:


Hi Margarita:

 

In the Coahuila-Nuevo Leon area, there are multiples families that have as your ancestors the "Zaldívar" from Zacatecas. In my

Bautismos de Hijos Legitimos

No. But I'm planning to research my ancestors from
Panuco this month.  If I do find any Zaldivars, I'll
let you know.

Albert Duarte Prieto
Santa Maria, California

--- Margarita Vallazza  wrote:

> Do you have any Zaldivars in your Panuco ancestry? 
> Marge:)
> On Nov 7, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Alberto Duarte wrote:
> 
> >
> >  How do you expect Americans to know the history
> of
> >  another country or group when they know very
> little
> >  about their own history?  If you don't believe
> me,
> >  just ask them. 
> >
> >  Emile, you are doing way better than me.  I can
> only
> >  trace my ancestors back to 1675 in Panuco,
> Zacatecas.
> >
> >  Alberto Duarte Prieto
> >  Santa Maria, California
> >
> >  --- Emilie Garcia 
> wrote:
> >
> >  > Yes, Arturo,
> >  >
> >  > It is so frustrating to know that Anglos here
> don't
> >  > have a clue about our history.  They are
> amazed when
> >  > I request records for 1640, or mention that I
> just
> >  >

Mexican Border

Emilie,

Just wanted to comment on what you wrote below...I once heard someone 
with a similar experience as your sister...  There response was "I 
didn't cross the border it crossed me!"

Here in Southern California...even though almost all the cities and 
streets are in Español.  People seem to forget that Mexico use to own 
all of the Southwest States.  And even though the border was moved to 
its current location, many of the people stayed.

As for me, I have been able to successfully trace most of my family 
ancestors to the 1700's in Colotlan and Totatiche, Jalisco.  I have 
hit some brick walls but I am currently trying different angles.  My 
fahter did cross the border, he came to the U.S. in the 1950's during 
the Bracero program.

Angie Godina
So. California


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia"  
wrote:
>My sister (born in Colorado as I was) once was told by her boss at 
work, "Well, Alicia, now that you have adopted this country as your 
own

Colotlan 1785 Census

Arturo,

 

I would be willing to assist on the translation of the 1785 Colotlan Census. Now one question, is that Simanca España or Salamanca España?

 

In either case let me know if you need my assistance.

 

Gracias............Alicia Avelar Olmos de Carrillo...........San Jose, Ca, originara de Nochistlan, Zac Mexico.

Arturo Ramos wrote:

There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the
Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized.

I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the
group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it.  I think
it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I
know, it has not previously been published.

The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at:

ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2

Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.



Zaldívar surname from Zacatecas.

Hi Margarita:
 
In the Coahuila-Nuevo Leon area, there are multiples families that have as your ancestors the "Zaldívar" from Zacatecas. In my family tree I have ancestors with Zaldívar surname: 1) Vicente de Zaldívar y Reza who born about 1599/1601 in Zacatecas and dead about 1661 en Saltillo, Nueva Vizcaya, he was son of Juan Guerra de Reza and Magdalena or Ana de Mendoza; Vicente married twice, one with María de Sosa, daughter of Alonso de Farías and Ana de Sosa, for this couple I have seven children in my records: Vicente, Mariana, Agustín, Margarita, Inés, Ana and María; the second marriage was with Juliana de las Casas (when she was widower of Vicente, then married with Diego Fernández de Montemayor, her second husband), Juliana was daughter of Bernabé de las Casas and Beatriz Navarro y Rodríguez; in my information, their had only a
son: Juan. Vicente Sr. was the companion of Juan de Oñate to the Nuevo Mexico expedition; Vicente is the father of various important people that

Colotlan 1785 Census

There is a 1785 Census of the Colotlan region that is held at the 
Archives of Simanca in Spain and has bee digitized.

I was thinking that perhaps we could get a few volunteers from the 
group to help transcribe it and then perhaps even publish it.  I think 
it would be very useful for many people in the group and as far as I 
know, it has not previously been published.

The document can be found on Archivos Espanoles en Red at:

ES.47161.AGS/19.8//SGU,7015,2

Let me know if you are interested in helping out on this project.




Trip to Jalisco & Zacatecas

Josie:

If I remember correctly, Estaban Valdes Salazar's family in Totatiche 
are relative newcomers since their ancestor only immigrated to the area 
from Spain in the mid-1700s.  There is actually an older Valdes line in 
the area who were originally "Llanos y Valdes" that goes way back... 
one of the first families to settle in Jerez, Zacatecas in the 1500s 
and then a branch moved to what is now Villa Guerrero to resettle the 
main hacienda there after one of the many indigenous uprisings that had 
led it to be abandoned.  That family is very prominent... lots of army 
officers and to date about half of the mayors of Villa Guerrero are 
Valdeses from this line.


>>Hi Arturo! I just now had time to try to catch up on my e-mail (Mickey
Garcia and I were in Monclova, MX  for a few days) and just read the 
above message you sent a few weeks ago.  You mention that you are going 
to try to interview Esteban Valdes Salazar while you are in Mexico 
during December and January.  I am