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Alberto; Thank you for your various replies to my postings over the months
past. This is a site filled with good people. You are one.

I live in Whittier,  California

Again, thank you,

Jose Luis Macias

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alberto Duarte"

To: 
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: Altos de Jalisco

Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos and
never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- latina1955@... wrote:

Hi,

My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
Madrigal, Duarte.  I have
started doing some research, but have not taken the
serious time yet.   There are
many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
related (but I think  people
just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be aware
is not as  common in
Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
Rocha name is  connected to
families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's

I have just joined the Rancho group.  I am currently a resident of 
Washington, DC, originally from San Gabriel, California.  I am in the 
process of compiling a family history.  Central to this task is a 
genealogical database.  I have already compiled a genealogy going 
back as far as the mid 1700s in Totatiche, Jalisco for some of my 
lineages.

Thus far I have used oral histories and Church of Latter Day Saints 
resources (based on church records in Totatiche) but I have now begun 
collecting written histories of the region and plan to do some field 
research in Guadalajara, Totatiche and Colotlan later this year.

I am particularly interested in history of the names RAMOS, ARANZAZU, 
REZA, GONZALEZ, GARCIA, QUINTANILLA, PINEDO, LEMUS

The following is the full list of surnames in my GEDCOM database thus 
far:

RAMOS, PINEDO, GARCIA, GUTIERREZ, REZA, RIOS, GONZALEZ, ARANZAZU, 
LEMUS, GRANO, QUINTANILLA, MADERA, MIRAMONTES, RODRIGUEZ, TORRES, 
FLORES, ENRIQUEZ, CAMPOS, LEMUS, ROJAS

The article on the yarn paintings was especially wonderful, thank you 
for sharing it.  I found in Jerez these Indios are invisible people.  
The men still dress in the white trousers and the women and children 
in colorful long skirts and head scarves, they were selling beautiful 
bead work in the Plaza in Jerez.  I was told not to make eye contact 
with them!  The locals truly looked through them so what they were 
selling was to the tourists since the local's didn't see them! I was 
told they live outside of town and are very poor.  Some things are 
slow to change.

Linda

Joseph,

In all the previous posting, I think you get the idea of what went on in the past regarding 
Spanish first names and surnames. I have reviewed thousands of documents from the 
18th, 19th and 20th century in Mexico.  It appears quite clear that there was a relatively 
lax attitude toward names and even surnames in Spanish communities. In my Felguerez 
line, one of the mates (depending on what document you were reading) went by Dolores 
Garcia or Maria Encarnacion Garcia or Carnacion Garcia. Same person. The hard part is 
when a family decides to change the last name altogether, e.g. Don Juan de Oñate is 
classic example. 

I could complicate the issue more by speculating on the literacy rate at any point in time/
location and how sober the padre was when he was writing but I won't go there.

Ed

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alberto Duarte  wrote:
> You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
> Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
>

She's probably related to my great-grandfather's first wife, Eleuteria Tovar.:) Marge:)

On Jul 9, 2005, at 12:17 AM, Alberto Duarte wrote:

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother

Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name

written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria

Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria

Vasquez Tobar.



Alberto.

Santa Maria, California

You think that is confusing? My great grandmother
Maria Dolores Vasquez Tovar from Jerez had her name
written sometimes as: Maria Dolores Tobar, Maria
Dolores Tovar, or Maria Vasquez Tovar, or Maria
Vasquez Tobar.

Alberto.
Santa Maria, California

--- Emilie Garcia  wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores

Joseph,

I have never come across a man with only the name Jose at baptism.  I asked my wife, Gloria, and she says that she has seen a number of men given only the name Jose at baptism.  Gloria researches mainly Aguascalientes, Jalisco and Puerto Rico.  She has done hundreds of extractions in her own research.  

My own experience, in Senecú, taught me to be flexible in naming people.  In the case of my ggggrandfather he showed up as: Carpio, Juan, Trinidad, Policarpio and combinations of all.  Finally I figured out that he was named Juan Trinidad Policarpio.  I was able to do this by extraction from the microfilms.  I find it incredible that anyone could do it using the IGI online.  I guess you have noticed that the names used in recording marriages is usually different from the baptism records.  Someday I'll read the notes on the Council of Trent to see if the RCChurch mandated that children in the western hemisphere be named José or María.  

I wouldn't be too quick to assume that

I agree

Been there...done that on many occassion.  

Heard years ago priests, in late 1700's,  scripted
"Jose and/or Maria" to distinguish gender.
What say you?

Jose Munoz
Yuba City, Ca.





--- Emilie Garcia  wrote:

> Joseph,
> 
> After many years of searching the IGI and
> microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was
> named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I
> run into the same things you have.  It seems that
> the priests would also often abbreviate these three
> common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or
> Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David,
> Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see
> Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last
> one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never
> heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people
> named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is
> sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los
> Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also
> noticed in the

Joseph,

 

After many years of searching the IGI and microfilms, I think that everyone in Mexico was named Jose or Maria, or Jose Maria, or Juan, since I run into the same things you have.  It seems that the priests would also often abbreviate these three common names.  Juan was often used with Juan Jose or Juan Francisco. More often I see Jose--Jose David, Jose Gabriel, Jose Miguel, etc.  Sometimes I see Juan de Dios or Jesus de la Cruz.  Would that last one be called just Cruz by his family?  Yet I never heard of anyone called just Dios. I have seen people named Santiago or Santacruz or just Santos. Maria is sometimes Maria de los Santos, or Maria de los Dolores, or Maria de Jesus, etc.  I have also noticed in the films that all children baptised or born on or near a

Don't feel left out.  My wife is from Los Altos and
never heard of my last name (Duarte) until she met me.

Alberto Duarte
Santa Maria, California

--- latina1955@... wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> My husband's surnames include Rocha, Ortiz,
> Madrigal, Duarte.  I have  
> started doing some research, but have not taken the
> serious time yet.   There are 
> many Madrigales in this area - most claiming not
> related (but I think  people 
> just forget).  The Ortiz name, as you might be aware
> is not as  common in 
> Mexico, at least not in these parts, however the
> Rocha name is  connected to 
> families from Los Altos area.  The Duarte's were
> supposedly  one of the first to 
> settle his small town - however when I went to the
> local  church to get historical 
> data, it does not mention one single Duarte!
>  
> Thanks for your feedback - I was thinking that my
> posting had not gone  
> through....
>  
> Esperanza - Chicago area
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Discover Yahoo!

I don't think so. My husband and his mother were from Ecuador, SA and they never use that term.

Marge

On Jul 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Joseph Puentes wrote:

Does anyone know if "Rancho" is a term used in the same context as we use it in Mexico in other Spanish speaking countries?. . .I'm mostly interested in if Central and South Americans call their small communities Ranchos?



thanks,



joseph

Rougemont, NC

makas@...



John Gonzalez wrote:

 

 

Gracias Alicia:

 

Rancho is only one of many words in Spanish that have been "borrowed" or adopted by the English language. Here are a few more: Barbeque=Barbacoa, Lariat= La reata, Lasso= Lazo, Buckaroo= Vaquero, Mustang= Mosteño.  these are just a few that come to mind...Iam sure there are a lot more. 

 

John Gonzalez

Wildomar, CA

1gnzlz@...

 

----- Original Message -----