Dr.mt

Genealogy Tool Kit Published by Foundation for the National Archives

Published by papa_salvador –
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Genealogy Research

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Published by murcielago – Fri, 2012-04-27 18:00 | Permalink

Comment

Is NR able to 'buy' this kit and allow members to donate for its use?

Raymond Medrano

On Apr 27, 2012, at 6:48 PM, shcorona@gmail.com wrote:

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> April 18, 2012, 10:14 a.m. EDT
> Genealogy Tool Kit Published by Foundation for the National Archives
> WASHINGTON, April 18, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Step-by-Step Guide to Family Research at the National Archives
> The Foundation for the National Archives announces the publication of the Genealogy Tool Kit: Getting Started on Your Family History at the National Archives, written by National Archives genealogy archives specialist John P. Deeben.
> This 160-page step-by-step guide was published by the Foundation and launched in April 2012 to coincide with the celebration of the National Archives' release of the 1940 U.S. Census. The Foundation has long supported

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Published by murcielago – Fri, 2012-04-27 18:00 | Permalink

Comment

Is NR able to 'buy' this kit and allow members to donate for its use?

Raymond Medrano

On Apr 27, 2012, at 6:48 PM, shcorona@gmail.com wrote:

> Home
> News Viewer
> Markets
> Investing
> Personal Finance
> Industries
> Economy/Politics
> Trading Deck
> Jobs
> Log In
> Games
> Alerts
> Portfolio
> press release
> April 18, 2012, 10:14 a.m. EDT
> Genealogy Tool Kit Published by Foundation for the National Archives
> WASHINGTON, April 18, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Step-by-Step Guide to Family Research at the National Archives
> The Foundation for the National Archives announces the publication of the Genealogy Tool Kit: Getting Started on Your Family History at the National Archives, written by National Archives genealogy archives specialist John P. Deeben.
> This 160-page step-by-step guide was published by the Foundation and launched in April 2012 to coincide with the celebration of the National Archives' release of the 1940 U.S. Census. The Foundation has long supported

Read full comment ➜

FABIANA DIAS DE TISCARENO

Published by chilerey54 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Saludos a todos, I was checking out Guadalajara dispensas #film 168130 image 1219 -bottom righthand side the last Tronco with
Bernabe Martin y Gertrudis Pedroza
then vino Maria Martin married to

Canuta Padilla Gallo Research Digest, Vol 40, Issue 11

Published by mimasep1959 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Primeramente seria bueno preguntarle a la persona que te dio la
informacion y repetirla como se te dio.

Comments

Published by tioallan – Sat, 2012-04-21 18:30 | Permalink

Comment

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Me gustaria confirmar si tu bisabuelo Benigno Gutiérrez Padilla, era hermano de Norberto Gutiérrez Padilla , esposo de Librada Gutierrez, de ser asi me gustaria contactar contigo para intercambiar datos.

Saludos

Comment

Hola Adrian gusto en saluarte, y te confirmo que mi bisabuelo benigno gutierrez y Norberto Gutierrez si fueron hermanos, y como bien tu dices Norberto caso con Librada Gutierrez y aunque tal vez ya tienes esta informacion te la doy por si acaso no fuera asi. Norberto es de el 7 de junio de 1865 y caso con Librada el dia 12 de febrero de 1890 en jalos. ella era hija de Evaristo Gutierrez y de Maria Melquiades Gonzales. Y como informacion complementaria te platico que esta Maria Melquiades Gonzales era hermana de mi bisdabuelo Juan Gonzales por el lado materno de mi papa. saludos y con gusto compartiere lo que poseo de informacion Adrian cuando tu gustes saludos

Comment

Benigno, perdon quie era la esposa de Benigno?

Miguel Gutierrez

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gutierrez_ezequiel777@hotmail.com
> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:26:26 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] benigno gutierrez padilla
>
> Hola Adrian gusto en saluarte, y te confirmo que mi bisabuelo benigno gutierrez y Norberto Gutierrez si fueron hermanos, y como bien tu dices Norberto caso con Librada Gutierrez y aunque tal vez ya tienes esta informacion te la doy por si acaso no fuera asi. Norberto es de el 7 de junio de 1865 y caso con Librada el dia 12 de febrero de 1890 en jalos. ella era hija de Evaristo Gutierrez y de Maria Melquiades Gonzales. Y como informacion complementaria te platico que esta Maria Melquiades Gonzales era hermana de mi bisdabuelo Juan Gonzales por el lado materno de mi papa. saludos y con gusto compartiere lo que poseo de informacion Adrian cuando tu gustes saludos

Comment

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Hola Miguel, yo tengo registrados dos matrimonios de Benigno, el primero con fecha 24 de octubre de 1866 con Maria Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla hija de Simon Gutierrez y Rita Padilla y el segundo en el año 1892 con Isabel Gutierrez Padilla, hija de Pablo Gutierrez y Refugio Padilla.

Estos datos los pueden corroborar los primos Irma o Ezequiel..

Saludos

Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Published by oldcar53 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

This is just a heads up to anyone doing research in Nochistlan but specific to film # 226675, Bautismos 1870-1873, it's full of errors, listing the wrong names or surnames at least 20-30 % of the time

Comments

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Fri, 2012-04-20 17:30 | Permalink

Comment

Alicia,

Are you saying that the priest when recording these vital records
made these errors or are these errors LDS input errors?

Can you give one example...?

Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 8:42:44 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

This is just a heads up to anyone doing research in Nochistlan but specific to film # 226675, Bautismos 1870-1873, it's full of errors, listing the wrong names or surnames at least 20-30 % of the time so make sure to double check off of other records the surnames of the grandparents or even for that matter of the parents. Too many mistakes to list!!
I wish I could write and notify someone to make the corrections but I guess I'm at least 140 years too late.

Un aviso a todos los que hacen estudios en family search, especificamente los archivos del rollo# 226675 de Bautismos de Nochistlan, Zacatecas, 1870-1873. Contiene

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I don't believe it was the priests that filled out the records but a scribe.. I have also found many mistakes in Jerez records with transfering parents and grandparents or just plain wrong.. but remember most of the time for baptisms anyway the Mother was not there so people are guessing or she died and they never really knew who the grandparents were.  I've also seen records where the words ran together so someone who could not read was obviously copying them without knowing where they break to form a word.
just my 2 cents worth.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Alicia,

Are you saying that the priest when recording these vital records
made these errors or are these errors LDS input errors?

Can you give one example...?

Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alicia Carrillo"
To: research

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Linda,

Do you think the actual preparation of the records were done before the actual ceremony or during/after... ?

As in my own Portuguese ancestry research...
Over 70% of parents/grandparents/godparents could not read nor write...they were at the mercy of these vital records being recorded correctly...but we have found that not to be the case, thankfully it's the exception and not the norm...

Thank you Alicia for the heads-up/reminder that some records do have errors...

Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:30:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

I don't believe it was the priests that filled out the records but a scribe.. I have also found many mistakes in Jerez records with transfering parents and grandparents or just plain wrong.. but remember most of the time for baptisms anyway the Mother was not there so people are guessing or she died and

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat you ask a good question but I've never heard and don't remember how it was done when my kids were baptized?  I would swear someone in the old records just took notes and put them in their pocket and wrote them into the records later.. I've learned it usually takes more than one record to be sure of the names involved. Like you I've found most of my lines could not read or write, especially the women in Zacatecas, Michoacan and Jalisco. I do also think the marriage information records were not always correct when they say someone could not write. Since our families never saw the records there was no one to make corrections.
Pat I'm not sure if you have family from Jerez but I did just update my files on Rootsweb. com yesterday.  File name is Mexico then go to the index to see if any of your Corbera/Corvera lines are there.
Linda in Everett.

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:07 PM
Subject: Re:

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat I forgot to add that I have started adding a ~ at the top of records of people I am related too.  The files cover so many years I very often forget how and who I'm related too.  It's amazing now that I'm doing that I can really see how often the same families married into the same lines for so many decades.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Pat you ask a good question but I've never heard and don't remember how it was done when my kids were baptized?  I would swear someone in the old records just took notes and put them in their pocket and wrote them into the records later.. I've learned it usually takes more than one record to be sure of the names involved. Like you I've found most of my lines could not read or write, especially the women in Zacatecas, Michoacan and Jalisco. I do also

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Linda,

Sounds like a great idea. You're so right, with many names in a data base, it's so easy to forget if one is relate or not.

I have used (mt) and (ydna) next to a direct line ancestor's name, it helps when viewing a data base listing of all individuals.

Pat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 10:34:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Pat I forgot to add that I have started adding a ~ at the top of records of people I am related too. The files cover so many years I very often forget how and who I'm related too. It's amazing now that I'm doing that I can really see how often the same families married into the same lines for so many decades.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Linda in Everett...

Thank you so much for your added comments. When my daughter was baptized, we had to make arrangements prior to the actual ceremony, and then after the ceremony the priest signed the certificate. That signed copy was then given to us for our records. Sadly, Grandparents were not included. That was in 1969 in California.

I'll check out your Rootsweb site... I appreciate your input! This Corbera/Corvera line has become very frustrating, but I'm determined to figure it out... ;-)...

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 10:01:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Pat you ask a good question but I've never heard and don't remember how it was done when my kids were baptized? I would swear someone in the old records just took notes and put them in their pocket and wrote them into the records later.. I've learned it

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

The errors I speak of are entry or recording errors created by the scribe or the priest, I have no way of knowing who it was. Here's a case where they spelled the first name wrong for the maternal grandfather. See the 3rd entry on the bottom left, for Las Pilas, for Maria Clara, hija legitima

The maternal grandfather's name is Procopio Gonzales but instead it states Refugio Gonzales. I know his name because it's listed on the birth record of 4 of her other siblings and I can go on and on with so many other entry errors. I was so wishing I could call someone and tell them, you made a mistake, but then I realized  I was over 140 years too late.                    Alicia, San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Alicia,

Are you saying that the priest when recording these vital records
made these errors or are

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Sorry, forgot the link, here's the link to the  record noted below; https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15670-42583-14?cc=1410092&wc…

Here's another error, the entry is for the rancho named"Duranes"2nd to the left, Jose Roman, it lists his mother as Bonifacia Muños, it should be Bonifacia Macias. Bonifacia Macias' father was Nazario Macias and her mother was Zeferina Muños. I know this because I have been tracking this family and I have 6 other siblings listed for Jose Roman or Jose Ramon. He gave Bonifacia her mother's last name instead of her father's last name.    https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15670-42753-14?cc=1410092&wc…

And I have so many other errors noted on this film.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Pat,

The errors I speak of are entry or

Read full comment ➜

Comment

WOW! not even close...must have been a bad day for that priest or scribe.

I had a situation where the father's last name was recorded as being Cordero, but his father, the child's paternal grandfather's surname was recorded as Corbera...Guess the father could have been a Cordero with a step-father of Corbera

I have found many transcription errors of LDS input... Carrera for Corbera - Cabrera for Corbera when the document clearly has the correct spelling of Corbera... and the list goes on...

When humans are involved there will be errors...but so thankful that we can actually view many of these records online now... Many "thanks," to LDS...

Errors not only 140 years ago... on Tino's birth record Oakland CA his mother's maiden surname of Perez was entered as Paris... and my in-laws could read and write in Spanish and English, but they didn't catch that error...

Very interesting this quest we find ourselves on in the name of family history research... ;-))

Pat

----- Original

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Pat,

Here's another error in this film. It shows the Abuelo Paterno as Cresencio Gutierres when it should be Cresencio Guerrero, the spouse of Cornelia Madero of the rancho called Sombreretillo. For this family line I have tracked 277 individuals in my database and were it not for the data I have on file, I would not know this was another entry error by the parish scribe or priest.

Alicia

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15670-43014-86?cc=1410092&wc…

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

WOW! not even close...must have been a bad day for that priest or scribe.

I had a situation where the father's last name was recorded as being Cordero, but his father, the child's paternal grandfather's surname was recorded as Corbera...Guess the father could have been a Cordero with a step-father of Corbera

I have

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Alicia,

I have a question, once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries?

Tino's maternal grandmother was baptized as being "hija natural," but on her "Informacion Matrimonial," she was noted as being "hija legitima."

Was that because by the time she married her parents were married?

Why do some people have pages of "informacion matrimonials," while others have very limited marriage information? Was it based on the wealth/status of the individuals involved and their ability to pay?

Pat

Comment

once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries?
Pat, I don't know the answer to this question, but it's very good question. Maybe someone who's more knowledgable than me can answer it?

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Alicia,

I have a question, once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries? 

Tino's maternal grandmother was baptized as being "hija natural," but on her "Informacion Matrimonial," she was noted as being  "hija legitima."

Was that because by the time she married her parents were married?

Why do some people have pages of "informacion matrimonials," while others have very limited marriage information?  Was it based on the wealth/status of the individuals involved and their

Read full comment ➜

Comment

my grandmother was hija natural but 20 years later she names her Father on her marriage record, she even took his surname even though the man never married her Mother.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries?
Pat, I don't know the answer to this question, but it's very good question. Maybe someone who's more knowledgable than me can answer it?

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

Alicia,

I have a question, once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries? 

Tino's

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Linda and Pat, so I guess there's no hardfast rule ??

Alicia

________________________________
From: Erlinda Castanon-Long
To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

my grandmother was hija natural but 20 years later she names her Father on her marriage record, she even took his surname even though the man never married her Mother.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Alicia Carrillo
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores
 
once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does that "status," continue on if and when that child marries?
Pat, I don't know the answer to this question, but it's very good question. Maybe someone who's more knowledgable than me can answer it?

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thank you Alicia and Linda,

I'm beginning to believe that it's best when one reaches adulthood to just claim "hija legitima," status... too difficult to explain the other. In Tino's ancestor's situation, she was bapatized as "hija natural," but the name of the father as well as that of the A.P. and A.M. were all mentioned. I did locate the marriage record for her parents, and they did marry after she was born...so by the time she married her parents were married and alive...

Thank you for your comments/added information.
Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 10:47:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

my grandmother was hija natural but 20 years later she names her Father on her marriage record, she even took his surname even though the man never married her Mother.
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Alicia

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I have seen situations in which the parents of a child are married a year
or two before the marriage of the child. It makes one think the reason the
parents married was so the child could be listed as a legitimate child in
the marriage record. I take it that the baptism of the person you speak has
the names of the parents even though she was an hija natural. Is that the
case?

Armando

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Pat Corbera wrote:

>
>
> Alicia,
>
>
> I have a question, once a child is baptized as being "hija natural," does
> that "status," continue on if and when that child marries?
>
> Tino's maternal grandmother was baptized as being "hija natural," but on
> her "Informacion Matrimonial," she was noted as being "hija legitima."
>
> Was that because by the time she married her parents were married?
>
> Why do some people have pages of "informacion matrimonials," while others
> have very limited marriage information? Was it based on the wealth/status
> of the individuals

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Armando,

The situation that you mentioned I had never thought to check that out, but I will do so. I have come across a couple of direct line ancestors that married after the birth/baptism of the their children. I will see if that marriage may have happened shortly before the marriage of one of their offspring.

Yes, the child's baptism record of (30 Nov 1871) noted as "hija natural," mentioned the mother, the father, as well as the A.P. and A.M. The parents were married 22 May 1873, almost 18 months after the Nov 1871 baptism.

Thank you for adding to this thread...

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Armando"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 6:32:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Nochistlan-Bautismos 1870-1876-Errores

I have seen situations in which the parents of a child are married a year
or two before the marriage of the child. It makes one think the reason the
parents married was so the child could be listed

Read full comment ➜

Comment

To follow up on the errors on film # 226675 for bautismos de Nochistlan, there were many entries made showing the wrong year. Film started with December of 1870 and continued into 1871 and suddenly they reversed back to 1870 which I knew was a mistake and this link has an entry by the bishop or obispo stating that they should be for 1871.

The priest must have been dyslexic or had ADHD

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15670-43606-20?cc=1410092&wc…

De nuevo con los Ramírez de Prado...

Published by Salvador94 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos, especialmente a los interesados en esta familia que tuvo un tema de foro girando en torno a ella hace pocas semanas en este sitio.

Comments

Published by mendezdetorres – Mon, 2012-04-23 09:45 | Permalink

Comment

Enrique,

Hasta hoy, revisando mis correos electronicos, me doy cuenta que has avanzado profundamente en el tema de los Ramirez de Prado y los Perez de guzman. Aun, no se nada sobre estos Garcia Montero o Garcia de Rivas, pero seguramente debido a la epoca y lugar deberian originar de otro lugar. Es muy interesante que hubo otros conexciones con los Ramirez de Prado al norte de Mexico especialmente, Texas y Nuevo Mexico. Si podias escribirme a mi correo personal sobre el tema seria fabuloso. Ahora, que tal los Ramirez de Prado de Michoacan? El Fr. Marcos Ramirez de Prado, Arzobispo de Valladolid?

Saludos,
Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Comment

Hola Daniel:

Te agradezco tu respuesta y seguimiento a este tema. Considero que es primordial el estudio de esta familia ya que creo es mucho muy interesante, seguro encontraremos algo muy bueno en esto. Me gustaría poder contactar con alguien que tuviera mucho conocimiento de Chihuahua en aquellos años, los Ramírez de Prado del norte del Virreinato deben de tener un solo tronco y seguramente la información de esta familia debe estar por algún lado, además por ser al parecer de origen noble.

Por el momento, no creo que nuestra investigación nos lleve a Michoacán, primero hay que resolver el misterio de estos del Parral para llegar a los michoacanos aunque ten por seguro que de alguna manera estaban relacionados con Fr. Marcos Ramírez de Prado.
No sé si te diste cuenta que publiqué la información de otro sacerdote también de apelido Ramírez de Prado que tuvo importantes cargos en Aguascalientes y en el Norte de México no recuerdo si Zacatecas u otro lugar y dice ser natural de

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De Armas Family

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

So i am sort of having like a brick wall im stuck with Ambrosio De Armas And Quiteria De Velasco.I know the had around 5 5 kids and they were from Nochistlan.If anybody can help me im having such a ha

Mariana Reyez

Published by Dennis_Duke_Romo –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Father was Miguel Reyes mother Espridiona Gomez had a twin Germana Reyes. Born in Encarnacion de Diaz Jalisco Mexico . Father widowed and later married Dominga Prado.

Discussion on Guadalaja Dispensas at NGGS 2012

Published by Claudia_Reynoso –
Forums
Announcements and Events

Hello all,

Comments

Published by Jorge_Elias – Tue, 2012-04-24 22:20 | Permalink

Comment

Seguro será una presentación súper interesante y profesional como tu trabajo en la Web. Que pena no poder estar allí. Esperaré pacientemente el resumen.

Creo que hay tanta información en los detalles de cada documento de investigación matrimonial que es un gran tesoro poder acceder a ellos con el catálogo que presenta guadalajaradispensas.com

Cada documento resuelve algunas incógnitas y suscita otras. A veces me he preguntado por qué hay quienes piden dispensas para evadir las amonestaciones, por ejemplo. generalmente quienes lo hacen me parece se apoyan en su liderazgo social y económico. En fin, desde la caligrafía, el lugar de donde proceden los documentos, las distintas clases de dispensas que se piden, las multas y penitencias, etc. todos me parecen puntos de apoyo para investigar cada documento y con él cada personage y cada familia.

Muchas gracias por tu trabajo y mucho éxito en la conferencia.

Jorge Elias
Miami, FL

DNA testing 2-day sale

Published by Visitor (not verified) –
Forums
Announcements and Events

Several of Nuestros Ranchos members have shown interest on DNA testing. I learned that Familytreedna has announced a two day sale on new DNA tests and upgrades (Friday 20th and Saturday 21st).

Comments

RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Linda,

Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings.

Comments

Published by longsjourney – Tue, 2012-04-24 16:15 | Permalink

Comment

Pat you are right, I have Cordero not Corbera.. sorry abt that!
Do you have a Jerez connection?
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda

Linda,

Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information.  I didn't see any Corvera/Corbera listings.  I will check out the Cordero and Cabrera listings in hopes that my Corberas may be linked with these possible spelling variations...

I will continue to view your site for other surnames that appear in my family history search.

Once again thank you.. you have done a wonderful job in sharing your findings...

Pat Silva Corbera
Tracy CA

Comment

Linda,

A Jerez connection, not that I'm aware of... but since I'm having a hard time locating Corbera connections, it very possible. There appears to be Corvera/Corberas sprinkled through-out Mexico.

No problem with Cordero not being Corbera... there are so many spelling variations I keep telling my husband at this point in my research I'm beginning to believe our last name could even be Smith :-).

Pat

---- Original Message -----
From: "Erlinda Castanon-Long"
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:13:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda

Pat you are right, I have Cordero not Corbera.. sorry abt that!
Do you have a Jerez connection?
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: Pat Corbera
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 3:41 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] RootsWeb Websote - Attm - Linda

Linda,

Your RootsWeb website is a fountain of information. I didn't see any

Read full comment ➜

Benigno Gtz Research Digest, Vol 75, Issue 23

Published by mimasep1959 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola Primo Miggy,

Benigno Gutierrez se caso dos veces. Su primera esposa fue Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla y su segunda (mi bisabuela) fue Maria-Ysabel Gutierrez Padilla.

Comments

Published by tioallan – Mon, 2012-04-23 21:09 | Permalink

Comment

Adrián Márquez Padilla

Gracias Irma por la información, Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla, hija de Simon Gutierrez y Rita Padilla, acta de matrimonio con Benigno Gutierrez:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18684-53252-29?cc=1874591&wc…

María Emeteria Gutierrez Padilla fue hermana de mi bisabuela materna Maria Refugio Gutierrez Padilla.

Ysabel Gutierrez Padilla, hija de Pablo Gutierrez y Refugio Padilla...

Saludos

I need help reading this baptism document

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

So i found the parents of Victoriano Ruiz and Maria Ysabel Albares but there is a problem i need help on figuring out Maria Ysabel mothers first name and last name im guesing her first name is Maria h

Comments

Published by beutelsp – Sat, 2012-02-18 17:11 | Permalink

Comment

Moises B. Huizar
En la Iglesia parroquial de Nochistlan. en 28 dias del mes de enero de 1808, yo, el presbitero Don Rafael Higinio Mendez De Torres como teniente de esta Feligresia, bautice solemnemente y puse los santos oleos a una nina, que dijeron haber nacido el 28 mes a las 4 de la manana poco mas o menos. Hija legitima de y de legitimo matrimonio de Don Victoriano Ruiz y de Dona Maria Ysabel Albarez, espanoles del rancho " (???)" de esta Feligresia. Abuelos Paternos: Don Jose Antonio Ruiz y Dona Maria Felipa Gonsalez. y maternos Don Jose Maria Alvarez y Dona Maria De La O Duran., asimismo espanoles de dicho rancho. Se le puso por nombre Maria Sebastiana Ynes De La Santisima Trinidad. Fueron sus padrinos Don Rafael Mastromedo Zeballos y Dona Manuela Servantes Negrete, espanoles de este pueblo a quienes administre el pan espiritual y demas obligaciones. Es para que conste. Lo firmo con el Sr cura propio.
Juan Xavier De Zuniga Rafael Higinio Mendez De Torres

Comment

Moises,

This baptism record is very interesting, some families that I have studied are the Ceballos, Cervantes-Negrete and even the priest should be my relative. D. Rafael Higinio Mendez de Torres, not sure how, but I would like to find out how he is related to me. I had no idea one of our family members went to Nochistlan and was the officiating priest. This is really nice.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by Joseph_de_Leon – Sat, 2012-02-18 12:38 | Permalink

Comment

It looks like Maria de la O Duran to me

Jose Carlos de Leon

Comment

Abram

To improve your proficiency in reading and understanding these documents, I would suggest the following. It is a moderate amount of work initially, but it will, in a short time, greatly improve your ability to read these documents:

(1) Enlarge the image a lot to make it easier to read. If you can't enlarge it enough with Family Search, download the image and use image software (the one that comes with Windows is ok, others are better. I use Picassa, which is freeware.)

(2) Transcribe the document, as written, with the all abbreviations and mis-spellings. This, by itself, will make the document clearer; you may not need to do the next step.

(3) Use google translation to translate from Spanish into English the parts that are unclear (note that some clauses will be in Latin, such as "in facie Ecclise" which the Spanish-English translation will ignore).

Mis-spelled words and abbreviations will not get translated.

The google translation is a long ways from perfect, and

Read full comment ➜

Correcciones de árbol

Published by garibaldi –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Alguein me podria orientar como hacer cambios en mi árbol? Me concontré con un error y debo corregirlo.

Comments

Published by Armando – Sun, 2012-04-22 21:30 | Permalink

Comment

Si nadie soluciona tu problema en dos o tres días recuerdame y trataré de
hacerlo cuando tenga tiempo. ¿cual programa de genealogía usas?

Armando
On Apr 22, 2012 10:51 PM, wrote:

> Alguein me podria orientar como hacer cambios en mi árbol? Me concontré
> con un error y debo corregirlo.

Entierros "humildes" and "de limosna"

Published by V.Q.C. –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hi, I would like to know what the difference was between entierros "humildes" and entierros "de limosna". I have also seen in records, that people actually gave money to the church (fabrica de ?

Comments

Published by oldcar53 – Sun, 2012-04-22 16:30 | Permalink

Comment

Entierro humilde was a humble burial. It was a simple burial, did not include high mass with a cross and candles

Entierro Mayor would include the capa, cruz, (cross) and ciriales (candles)
Entierro Humilde is a humble burial - Fee was paid for the burial
Entierro de Limosna -  A Pauper's burial

At least this is how it was explained to me.

Alicia,
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: "sanjeronimolosbarbosa@yahoo.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:57 PM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Entierros "humildes" and "de limosna"

Hi, I would like to know what the difference was between entierros "humildes" and entierros "de limosna". I have also seen in records, that people actually gave money to the church (fabrica de ? pesos) so that the corpse could stay buried for a couple of years. I have also seen that in the burial records of San Martin Hidalgo of the 1820s, next to the corpse's race (e.g. español, yndio, mulato) the priest

Read full comment ➜

Published by Joseph_de_Leon – Sun, 2012-04-22 15:14 | Permalink

Comment

I assume it refers "humildes" to the Indios and "de limosna" as to a no-charge burial, but let's see what others have to say.

Jose Carlos de Leon

Fw: (6110) Jaime Holcombe 20 Feb 1695

Published by celestino_villalobos –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Hola a todos.

Aguascalientes, Ags. Febrero 20 de 1695. Exp.

Comments

Published by celestino_villalobos – Sun, 2012-04-22 14:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hola a todos.

Aguascalientes, Ags. Febrero 20 de 1695. Exp. 73 .- Dispensa de tercer con cuarto grado de consanguinidad.- Francisco Nuñez, castizo de 30 años de edad vecino y natural de Villa de Aguascalientes, hijo legitimo de Salvador Nuñez y de Maria Vasquez: con Rosa Maria de Ayala, española de 22 años de edad, natural y vecina de esta villa, hija legitima de Salvador de Villalobos y de Doña Angela de Ayala. Declaracion del pretenso: Que Maria Vásquez, mi madre y la madre de Salvador Villalobos, padre de la pretensa, fueron primas hermanas. Se otorgó la dispensa en la Ciudad de Guadalajara, en 9 de marzo de 1695. 19 fojas.

Family Search ??

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Iv'e been trying to locate an informacion matrimonial in the year 1762 from Nochistlan but i can't find it no where.Can someone please help?

Help please on my Lomelin ancestor?

Published by abram101 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Im pretty much stuck on this the Lomelin individual his name is Sebastian Lomelin he married Josefa Hurtado but i do not have their marriage record i descend from the offspring Maria Margarita Lomelin

Familia Hurtado

Published by ivraga –
Forums
Genealogy Research

Saludos amigos, he encontrado (tal parece) el inicio de mi árbol genealógico, pero me dice que Joseph Hurtado nacido entre los años 1655 y 1663 en el puesto de la Barrera, jurisdicción del rincón

Comments

Published by Armando – Fri, 2012-04-20 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

Fue hijo de padres no conocidos.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-18567-41563-8?cc=1874591&wc=…

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:39 PM, wrote:

> Saludos amigos, he encontrado (tal parece) el inicio de mi árbol
> genealógico, pero me dice que Joseph Hurtado nacido entre los años 1655 y
> 1663 en el puesto de la Barrera, jurisdicción del rincón de León y
> avecinado en la feligresía de Lagos o en Nostanejo cerca de Jacona en las
> inmediaciones de Unión de San Antonio y radicado en El carrizo de los
> Hurtado Municipio de Lagos de Moreno y casado con Micaela De Anda
> Altamirano el 4 de marzo de 1690.
> ¿Alguien sabe con exactitud la fecha de nacimiento de Joseph Hurtado y el
> nombre de sus ascendentes?
>
> saludos
> profr. Raúl Hurtado Pérez

Assistance with terminology

Published by gpf13 –
Forums
Genealogy Research

I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".

Comments

Published by dpdelgadol – Sat, 2012-03-17 21:00 | Permalink

Comment

George.

The phrase in English is as follows [with Spanish in brackets]. I gave [di] ecclesiastical burial [sepultura ecclesiastica, note the mix of Latin and Spanish orthography] with a 'low burial mass' [con entierro menor]with a 'donation' of [en fabrica de] etc... The word 'fabrica' as used in this document is not modern, some dictionaries don't even list its meaning as used here. When an amount is proferred the term 'limosna' is not used because that word denotes an act of charity on the part of the parish. Church liturgy has different levels. For example there is difference between a high mass and a low mass. In some localities I have seen the use of 'con cruz baja' or 'con cruz alta' depending on whether or not the church choir, a procession, and other items were used in the service. Much of this information may not be applicable to current practices due to many liturgical changes. (I did view the film online.)

As for the changes wrought by Benito Juarez, I won't even

Read full comment ➜

Comment

David

Thank you; I appreciate the help.

"Entierro menor" seems to be most common, even for people addressed as Don or Dona. Very rarely is there is Vigil and funeral Mass.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Published by mendezdetorres – Mon, 2012-04-16 08:30 | Permalink

Comment

George,

I remember noticing this in many death records, many of my ancestors had no distinction as entierro menor or entierro mayor, but my 5th great grandmother Maria de los Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor y Lopez Valdes had an entierro mayor which had sparked initial interest to find out more about it.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Mon, 2012-04-16 12:15 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel,

Where and when was your 5th GGM born/baptised... and who were her parents?

Pat Silva Corbera

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 8:29:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thanks!

George,

I remember noticing this in many death records, many of my ancestors had no distinction as entierro menor or entierro mayor, but my 5th great grandmother Maria de los Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor y Lopez Valdes had an entierro mayor which had sparked initial interest to find out more about it.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by mendezdetorres – Fri, 2012-04-20 11:15 | Permalink

Comment

Pat,

Most of my mother's family is from Aguascalientes, where she was born, some from Jalisco and Mexico City. Maria Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor was born if I remember correctly 1802 or so in Aguascalientes.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by Pat_Silva_Corbera – Fri, 2012-04-20 17:30 | Permalink

Comment

Thasnk you Daniel, Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino"
To: "Nuestros Ranchos"
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:00:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Thanks!

Pat,

Most of my mother's family is from Aguascalientes, where she was born, some from Jalisco and Mexico City. Maria Dolores Martinez de Sotomayor was born if I remember correctly 1802 or so in Aguascalientes.

Daniel Mendez de Torres Camino

Published by dpdelgadol – Sat, 2012-03-17 13:45 | Permalink

Comment

George,

The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of "charging" for the 'services' they provide. The phrase you noted is more of a personal note than sentence.

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: gpf13@aol.com
>Sent: Mar 17, 2012 10:40 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
>I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".
>
>Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.
>
>When I try a

Read full comment ➜

Comment

I always thought "de limosna" meant that the sacrament was given "out of charity" or alms for the poor. I think the rich people always gave donations, but the poor people couldn't.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:33 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
> George,
>
> The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of "charging" for the 'services' they provide. The phrase you noted is more of a personal note than sentence.
>
> David Delgado
> Albany, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: gpf13@aol.com
> >Sent: Mar 17, 2012 10:40 AM
> >To

Read full comment ➜

Comment

That was my understanding, too.   

--- On Sat, 3/17/12, Emilie Garcia wrote:

From: Emilie Garcia
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Date: Saturday, March 17, 2012, 9:31 PM

I always thought "de limosna" meant that the sacrament was given "out of charity"  or alms for the poor.  I think the rich people always gave donations, but the poor people couldn't. 

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:40:33 -0700
> From: dpdelgado@jps.net
> To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
> Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology
>
> George,
>
> The phrase "entierro menor" denotes a type of liturgy or rite associated with a church burial. The word "fabrica" [accent on 'a'] refers to a church building fund. The rest of the phrase refers to the money of the day. Could "se" be the word "de"?, if not then the "se" doesn't make sense syntactically. All the clergy I have met over the years resist the notion of

Read full comment ➜

Comment

David

Thanks for the reply. I took another look at the records, and the actual language varies slightly from one record to another. I may have copied the phrase incorrectly. The whole phrase most often is something like "di sepultura eccca [note: there are 3 c's in the abbreviation] con entierro menor en fabrica seis pesos seis reales". This particular record is on image 287, Asientos Defunciones 1785/98, and is the record for Bernardo Francisco Padilla.

The peso, in the 18th century, was a large silver coin comprised of 8 reales (so-called "piece of eight"; our dollar is based on this coin). Six pesos 6 reales seems to be a significant amount of money, although I have nothing on which to base the purchasing power of the peso.

As I recall, one of the things that drove Benito Juarez's reforms concerning the Church in 1857 were the expenses associated with the sacraments.

George Fulton
Pleasanton, CA

Comment

George,

I discussed "de limosna" with my husband, and he told me about some of the reasons for the Protestant Reformation in Europe. One was "simony", the practice of "selling tickets" out of purgatory to insure Heaven. Also, dukes could even buy the Papacy without even having been priests first. Ex-communication was also a threat held over the heads of people who opposed certain practices. People felt the Church really could condemn your soul to purgatory and brand you an infidel.

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

> To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
> From: gpf13@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:04:34 -0700
> Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Terminology
>
> David
>
> Thanks for the reply. I took another look at the records, and the actual language varies slightly from one record to another. I may have copied the phrase incorrectly. The whole phrase most often is something like "di sepultura eccca [note: there are 3 c's in the abbreviation] con entierro menor en fabrica seis

Read full comment ➜

Comment

To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales. It was entierro humilde or humble burial but I still don't understand what it means when it says "Causo derechos a la fabrica" Does anyone out there know?

En comentarios anteriores alguien pregunto el significado de la frase "Cause derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y seis reales"

Gracias,
Alicia

Comment

Alicia,

I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos, entieros y otros, que sirven para repararlas o para costear los gastos del culto"... Earlier in the full page discussion you see that the word "derechos" is used in the sense of a monetary entitlement. Of course you know that "causo" means that someone paid the costs. Some locations use the phrase without using "derechos" but the meaning is the same.

I hope this is helpful to you.

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: alliecar@pacbell.net
>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 3:14 AM
>To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
>Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>To follow up on previous comments about defunciones or death records, I have been finding in Nochistlan, film # 226940 where it says and I quote, "Causo derechos a la fabrica de 3 pesos y

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Thanks David for this explanation. I knew what causo meant but I just couldn't put it together with derechos de fabrica relating to the deceased at the time of the burial with a specified amount of money. So this would mean that they paid 3 pesos and 6 reales for the burial, is this correct?

Alicia
San Jose, Ca

________________________________
From: David P. Delgado
To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology

Alicia,

I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos, entieros y otros, que sirven para repararlas o para costear los gastos del culto"...  Earlier in the full page discussion you see that the word "derechos" is used in the sense of a monetary entitlement.  Of course you know that "causo" means that someone paid the costs. Some

Read full comment ➜

Comment

Yes, Alicia, they gave that amount of money to the church's fund.

David Delgado
Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
>From: Alicia Carrillo
>Sent: Mar 27, 2012 10:38 PM
>To: "research@nuestrosranchos.org"
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>Thanks David for this explanation. I knew what causo meant but I just couldn't put it together with derechos de fabrica relating to the deceased at the time of the burial with a specified amount of money. So this would mean that they paid 3 pesos and 6 reales for the burial, is this correct?
>
>Alicia
>San Jose, Ca
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: David P. Delgado
>To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:04 PM
>Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Burial Terminology
>
>Alicia,
>
>I found the following definition of the phrase on p. 438 of the Real Academia's dictionary, 1956 edition: "derechos de fabrica: rentas o derechos que se cobran en las iglesias por ciertos actos, como bautizos

Read full comment ➜

Published by longsjourney – Sat, 2012-03-17 10:45 | Permalink

Comment

something I have found in some older burial records is a time limit of 5 years. Does that simply mean they can bury another person in that grave after 5 years? I was told in Jerez, Zac that in the old days more than one person could be buried in the same grave. The older bones were put to the foot of the grave.  Did this happen anywhere else other than Jerez?
Linda in Everett

________________________________
From: "gpf13@aol.com"
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 10:40 AM
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Assistance with terminology

I have seen several death records from Asientos in the mid 1790s with a clause similar to "se entierro menor en fabrica de quatro pesos seis reales".

Other records are annotated "limosna," which I assume means the person was poor, and was buried without a donation or payment to the Church.

When I try a computer translation of this clause (such as with google), the result makes no sense.

Is this amount a donation, or

Read full comment ➜

Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia

Published by ivraga –
Forums
History, Culture and General Discussion

¿Alguien está interesado en adquirir la colección libros de Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia de Don Mariano González-Leal?

Comments

Published by Lamomexico – Fri, 2012-04-20 15:35 | Permalink

Comment

Daniel Francisco Briones

Queria saber si podia compar algunos libros en el coleccion que necesito pero no todos?

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