mtDNA and other DNA

Emilie,

I know we're straying off topic, but just a brief comment about your
reply.  What your neighbor may have been talking about is something
called a trisomy, a rare kind of chomosomal anomaly where there's an
extra chromosome in one of the numbered pairs.  So instead of the
normal XY in a male this individuals have an XYY.  

It is possible that such individuals have exceptional characteristics,
either for good or evil.  One could just as easily become a serial
criminal or a super bright scientist.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
>
> Wow, Victor, I printed out your wonderful explanation below.  I
think I am beginning to grasp something.  I remember learning
something about chromosomes from school so very long ago.  Also, the
man next door talked about some monster criminals, murderers, who were
shown to be "YY".  I thought I recalled that men were "XY" and women
were "XX".  YY's would be genetic monsters, no?  They should be

Maternal Lineage in Tepetongo/Huejucar-Re: [ranchos]

Elvira and Victor.......thanks to both of you for the great
explanations!  I am learning so much from all of this!  Josie in San
Antonio



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of elviraz
Sent:
Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:01 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Maternal Lineage in
Tepetongo/Huejucar-Re: [ranchos]

Emilie,
 
Joseph, please bottom of message.
 
Eemilie: Re your >But those results show that an
African Eve (L1-a) entered into my lineage at some point.
 
In southern Mexico tthere were quite a number of black
slaves and free blacks.  Results like yours would not be uncommon.  In
fact they would be very common in places like Tabasco, southern Sinaloa,
Coahuila, San Luis Potosi, Guerrero state,  and about five other
states.  All of them have large pockets where a large number of blacks
lived.  I suspect that these and Filipino  will be somewhat common in
the Mexican seaports. These are just the special places, however

Capirotada- Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Joseph: 
 
By now you will have received many recipes for "capirotada", the lenten dish.  Each family has its own version but basically it is a bread pudding as Emilie described.  One Lent I introduced it to our mostly non Hispanic office. It quickly lost its lenten character and now is requested as a dessert whenever we have a pot luck gathering or fundraiser.  Capirotada by any other name takes just as good.  What a wonderful group!!  From capirotada to DNA with gusto.
Mary Garana Allen     PS. I am sending you the Garana version by mail.

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Joseph,
 
If you can read recipes in a book and follow them, you could make "capirotada" yourself.  When I went to New Orleans and to League City TX, they served something called "bread pudding" that was just like my mother's capirotada.  My mother was from New Mexico, where the Anglos' southern style cooking was an influence along with everything else.  My mother used to tear up pieces of bread and toast

mtDNA and other DNA

Thank you V.H.!!  Your explanation helped me immensely. You have the traits of a great teacher....  Mary Garana Allen

"v.h.villarreal" wrote:

Josie,

At the risk of oversimplifying this whole thing, I'm posting a few
essential concepts about DNA. Please excuse me if I sound patronizing.

We all have heard that DNA is the blueprint of life.  And it is!  Or
to be more exact, each organism's DNA is its own blueprint of life.
Just think how it is possible to clone an animal (make an exact
genetic replica) from the DNA found in the nucleus of a single cell.
And notice that in theory a clone could be made from practically every
cell in the body, as most cells have a copy of all their DNA, their
full genome.

Although each cell with a nucleus has their full genome it only has a
small section of it activated, the specific section that contains the
instructions that each cell must carry out.  Imagine a huge theater
performance with many, many actors, where every
actor has a copy of
the

mtDNA and other DNA

Please see comments below:
 
Elvira
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 19,
2005 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] mtDNA
and other DNA

 
 
 Also, the man next door talked about some monster
criminals, murderers, who were shown to be "YY".  I thought I
recalled that men were "XY" and women were "XX".  YY's would be genetic
monsters, no?  They should be locked up or killed. They are not really
human if they exist.  I wonder if my neighbor was
joking.>
 
 
This is not joke.  There are males or
females who have an exta x or an extra y, however, they are not criminals just
because they have that something extra.  In fact, unless you take the
tests, no one can tell.   Many famous athletes (mals and females)
have had an extra y or x and they were accomplished individuals and
famous. The theory that advanced that idea has been proven false.
 
This

Maternal Lineage in Tepetongo/Huejucar-Re: [ranchos]

Emilie,
 
Joseph, please bottom of message.
 
Eemilie: Re your >But those results show that an
African Eve (L1-a) entered into my lineage at some point.
 
In southern Mexico tthere were quite a number of black
slaves and free blacks.  Results like yours would not be uncommon.  In
fact they would be very common in places like Tabasco, southern Sinaloa,
Coahuila, San Luis Potosi, Guerrero state,  and about five other
states.  All of them have large pockets where a large number of blacks
lived.  I suspect that these and Filipino  will be somewhat common in
the Mexican seaports. These are just the special places, however, In Mexico
Blacks went to all corners of the country.  I Know people from Puebla
who have black backgounds.  By the way, Some of those Mexican blacks moved
to California. Goevernor Pico and family did. 
 
Regarding blacks in Mexico, there are pretty good records
of when Blacks arrived in Mexico and for how long a period there were slaves in
Mexico.  In

DNA and the Today show.

Bien Dicho José Román



hay muchos en nuestra comunidad (afuera de Ranchos) que no saben que
son de raza mezcla. Si somos de Espanol, Yndio, Negro, Moro, y otros.
Tenemos que vernos que somos de la misma sangre y juntamos no separamos
(unir no separar) de nuestros primos.



gracias otra vez para sus comentarios y contribuciones



joseph



José Román González López wrote:

Hi Emilie:
Thanks for your msg.
 
I had has a great reading of vital records (parish and civil)
for my Genealogy, and to an others, that work is my principal source of
information; the DNA projects are relatively new for my knowledge, this
is very impacting for me (a little time more, and I could be "s - t - o
- n - e - d", por poco me quedo "de una pieza", como decimos en
español), and I considered it a important advance to the Family History.
 
Talking about the integration of a new culture
(Latin-Americans), as the beginning of a new "raza" or "mezcla de
razas" (White, Indigenous, Negroe, Asiatic

Capirotada





Emilie Garcia wrote:

Alicia,
 
Now I recall that my mother would make the capirotada around
Easter or Lent.  She also would only serve cheese enchiladas on Fridays
during lent, no meat dishes.  She never made enchiladas with meat,
anyway.  She was from New Mexico and made her enchiladas flat, stacked
up, with only onions, cheese and sauce and a fried egg on top.  I had
mine without the fried egg and no onions, much to her consternation,
since she had to make only mine separately from everyone else's.  I
also wouldn't eat the salsa she made with what she called "chiles
curtidos" (I think that is what she called them).  She made tamales for
Christmas and New Year.  I miss sitting down in front of the TV to
watch the Rose Bowl parade on New Year's Day with a plate of her
tamales.
 
Joseph, we can't wait much longer to make capirotada or tamales
ourselves.  Mother is gone!  We are on our own.  We must not deny
ourselves.  Let's look up the recipes on the

Capirotada

Alicia,
 
Now I recall that my mother would make the capirotada around Easter or
Lent.  She also would only serve cheese enchiladas on Fridays during lent,
no meat dishes.  She never made enchiladas with meat, anyway.  She was
from New Mexico and made her enchiladas flat, stacked up, with only onions,
cheese and sauce and a fried egg on top.  I had mine without the fried egg
and no onions, much to her consternation, since she had to make only mine
separately from everyone else's.  I also wouldn't eat the salsa she made
with what she called "chiles curtidos" (I think that is what she called
them).  She made tamales for Christmas and New Year.  I miss sitting
down in front of the TV to watch the Rose Bowl parade on New Year's Day with a
plate of her tamales.
 
Joseph, we can't wait much longer to make capirotada or tamales
ourselves.  Mother is gone!  We are on our own.  We must not deny
ourselves.  Let's look up the recipes on the internet.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard

mtDNA and other DNA

Emilie.......I feel so
much better reading your post!   I was beginning to think I was
developing "Juvenile Alzheimer's"........I also remember something about this in
school......and.....also "so very long ago!"  :-)    Thanks
for making me feel better!     Josie in San
Antonio



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Emilie
Garcia
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 1:03 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] mtDNA and other
DNA

Wow, Victor, I printed out your wonderful explanation below.  I think
I am beginning to grasp something.  I remember learning something about
chromosomes from school so very long ago.  Also, the man next door talked
about some monster criminals, murderers, who were shown to be "YY".  I
thought I recalled that men were "XY" and women were "XX".  YY's would be
genetic monsters, no?  They should be locked up or killed. They are not
really human if they exist.  I wonder if my neighbor was joking. 

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show - Capirotada

Oh, Victor,
 
I get it now.  When you said "Heinz 57", it reminded me of
something my mother and my aunt would say when they were getting ready to fix
dinner and they hadn't shopped or planned a menu for the meal.  "Bueno,
pues, hacemos un guiso pendejo". I don't understand "pendejo" (my Mother used to
call me Pendeja when I did something stupid).  They would chop up or grind
whatever meat was at hand and make a quick stew in a skillet with whatever
vegetables were at hand, and they would serve it over mashed potatoes or with
"sopa de arroz" (Spanish rice) and fresh homemade flour tortillas or biscuits on
the side.  I always would put butter on my warm toasty tortillas, true
"pocha" that I am.  The guiso always came out so good.  Like
Joseph, I miss the food of my childhood, and as much as I can, I try to
reproduce it by cooking from scratch like they did.
 
I asked my husband what he would call the mixture of races in Mexico, and
he said "una revoltura [de razas].  I

mtDNA and other DNA

Victor......thanks for the explanation on DNA, and you do
not sound patronizing.  I appreciate the detail that you provide regarding
DNA.  I have been so involved in searching for my ancestors
that I never gave DNA a thought until now.  This adds more flavor to
the research that I love!
 
I noticed that I only have four "HVR1 differences from CRS"
(mutations) in my mtDNA results posted on the database for Family Tree DNA while
others have five, six and more.  What does this indicate?  I
understand that the CRS is used as a basis for comparison with mtDNA and that,
in my case, I have four instances of differences from the CRS.......what I do
not understand is......is this a good thing?  :-)   Am I trying
to read too much into this? 
 
Thanks again, Victor, for your help......and thanks to the
other members of this group who have helped me!  I appreciate
it!
 
Josie in San Antonio

From:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
v.h.villarreal

mtDNA and other DNA

Wow, Victor, I printed out your wonderful explanation below.  I think
I am beginning to grasp something.  I remember learning something about
chromosomes from school so very long ago.  Also, the man next door talked
about some monster criminals, murderers, who were shown to be "YY".  I
thought I recalled that men were "XY" and women were "XX".  YY's would be
genetic monsters, no?  They should be locked up or killed. They are not
really human if they exist.  I wonder if my neighbor was joking.  I
know that often I don't get the jokes.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:50
PM
Subject: [ranchos] mtDNA and other
DNA

Josie,

At the risk of oversimplifying this whole
thing, I'm posting a few
essential concepts about DNA. Please excuse me if
I sound patronizing.

We all have heard that DNA is the blueprint of
life.  And it is!  Or
to be more

Capirotada- Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show

Joseph,
 
If you can read recipes in a book and follow them, you could make
"capirotada" yourself.  When I went to New Orleans and to League City TX,
they served something called "bread pudding" that was just like my mother's
capirotada.  My mother was from New Mexico, where the Anglos' southern
style cooking was an influence along with everything else.  My mother used
to tear up pieces of bread and toast them then made a simple syrup and layered
the toasted bread with grated cheddar cheese and raisins and then pour the hot
syrup over it and let it sit awhile.  If you look up a recipe for
Southern-style bread pudding, you could make yourself some capirotada. 
There are so many versions of it.  I really liked the one in the South with
bourbon sauce in it--yum!  Don't any of the restaurants in your area serve
bread puddings?
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA ---
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November

mtDNA and other DNA

Josie,

At the risk of oversimplifying this whole thing, I'm posting a few
essential concepts about DNA. Please excuse me if I sound patronizing.

We all have heard that DNA is the blueprint of life.  And it is!  Or
to be more exact, each organism's DNA is its own blueprint of life. 
Just think how it is possible to clone an animal (make an exact
genetic replica) from the DNA found in the nucleus of a single cell. 
And notice that in theory a clone could be made from practically every
cell in the body, as most cells have a copy of all their DNA, their
full genome.

Although each cell with a nucleus has their full genome it only has a
small section of it activated, the specific section that contains the
instructions that each cell must carry out.  Imagine a huge theater
performance with many, many actors, where every actor has a copy of
the whole script but some actors only have to read a few lines or a
few pages at most.  So it is with cells; each one has differentiated
to play a

DNA and the Today show.

Jose Ramon,
 
Cuando leo tus correos siento que escribes con tanta pasion y mucha sabiduria. Es un honor para el grupo que seas uno de los integrantes. Agregas algo muy rico a la mezcla de Ranchos. Yo tambien busco con anhelo mis raices mestizas, castas o indigenas y creo que mantengo una mente abierta para poder ver lo que se presente por enfrente.
 
Jose Ramon,
 
When I read your postings I feel that you write with much passion and knowledge. It's an honor for this group to have you as a member. You add much to the knowledgeable mix of Ranchos ( I am not very knowledgeable yet! ). I too search with zeal for my mestizo, caste or indigenous roots and I believe and hope that I should always keep my mind open so that when the facts present themselves, whatever they may be I will be open and present to the reality.
 
Thanks for your contributions,
 
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

José Román González López wrote:
Hi Emilie:
Thanks for your msg.
 
I had has a great reading of

Arturo's comments about Gary Felix Mexico DNA project

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Arturo Ramos"  wrote:
>
> Gary is only focused on yDNA... paternal lines and his group is very 
> much focused on the "conquistadores" and Spanish lineages.
> 
> The mtDNA data for Mexico shows that most of the maternal genetic 
> material in modern Mexico is indigenous and given the demographic 
> collapse that occured shortly after contact with the Spanish, and the 
> subsequent movement of indigenous labor around the country, the mtDNA 
> information would draw a very different picture than the data Gary is 
> gathering.
> 
> We might be able to trace the ethnic groups of our indigenous 
> ancestors or at the very least learn about the migration patterns and 
> settlement waves that resulted in the indigenous population of Mexico.

Arturo, 

I asked Gary Felix to comment on your email. I think we all understand that the Americas, 
particularly Mexico and South America, are the mixing of three major cultures/races: 
European

DNA and the Today show.

Hi Emilie:
Thanks for your msg.
 
I had has a great reading of vital records (parish and civil) for my Genealogy, and to an others, that work is my principal source of information; the DNA projects are relatively new for my knowledge, this is very impacting for me (a little time more, and I could be "s - t - o - n - e - d", por poco me quedo "de una pieza", como decimos en español), and I considered it a important advance to the Family History.
 
Talking about the integration of a new culture (Latin-Americans), as the beginning of a new "raza" or "mezcla de razas" (White, Indigenous, Negroe, Asiatic, etc.) in America, I know that this is called "mestizaje"; but if the interaction between different etnias or cultures, in other places (not in America) as the DNA Project is showing, I think that Victor (saludos Víctor), is regarding to a new concept which is need describe it with another word, only
for the "mezcla" before of the "mestizaje" in the New Spain (and other places of

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

I have uploaded an article into the files section of Ranchos2 that 
explores the relationship between genetics and Latin American 
(particularly Mexican) history.  It has some intersting data on mtDNA 
distributions among different ethinc groups in what is now the U.S. 
and Mexico.

Genetics and Latin American History.pdf

Surprisingly, the fact that we are all haplogroup A points to our 
maternal ancestors coming to the region after Spanish contact 
(probably from further south) since the groups indigenous to the area 
we are studying tend to have relatively high levels of haplogroup B 
populations.

The following is a link to a very well researched Spanish language 
article on the indigenous populations of the Colotlan/Bolanos area at 
the time of Spanish contact:

http://www.ejournal.unam.mx/historia_novo/ehn09/EHN00907.pdf



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Josie T. Trevino"  
wrote:
>
> Hi!  
>  
> Someone once explained to me that the mtDNA results were, in some

Believe--- Re: [ranchos 2]

For your information and if you want to post some questions about DNA: 

This is the link to the Ybase Forum moderated by Gary Felix.
http://www.ybase.org/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=511

(You have to register and get a username to participate)



--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
>
> well it wouldn't be me to talk on DNA stuff, well not much anyway.
> 
> why not ask Gary Felix and then forward the group any answers you might 
> receive. or go to that discussion group moderated by Gary that Ed 
> mentioned.
> 
> I just don't know enough to comment.
> 
> joseph
> 
> beelieve wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone in our group,
> >  I am always so very interested in everything I read from our group.
> > I am new at this whole thing but am s l o w l y learning. Much thanks 
> > to Joseph,Arturo and Deena for all your intro help. My DNA results( 
> > via National Geographic special/family tree) on the maternal side are;
> > HER Haplography BE
> > HER differences from

Trevino match, DNA and the Today show - Capirotada

Sorry, Emilie.  That was supposed to be a humorous remark about our
diverse genetic make up in Mexico in reference to all the different
haplogroups of Ed's grandparents.

I was just trying to find an equivalent expression to "heinz 57" in
the US, when someone has a mix of several ancestries.  

Capirotada is a typical sweet Mexican dessert made up of a lot of
ingredients, as Joseph remembers.

Victor


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Emilie Garcia" 
wrote:
>
> Victor,
> 
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"?  However, that word is not
in my Spanish dictionary.  I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza". 
What say you, Jose Roman?  What do they call it in Mexico?
> 
> Emilie Garcia
> Port Orchard, WA ---
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: v.h.villarrealmailto:raices_regias@y...> 
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.commailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com> 
>   Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:00 AM
>   Subject: [ranchos] Re: Trevino match, DNA and the Today show
>

Capirotada

Joseph and Emilie,
 
You are invited over for capirotada but you must wait until Lent. Capirotada is a lenten food as it was usually made with day old bread and tortillas and any leftover fruits, nuts and cheeses. It was meant to be penitential, who would have thunk that it would be a much coveted Mexican gourment dessert.
 
My husband is famous for his lenten capirotada, not as in Emeril TV famous but as in San Jose local family famous.
 
Alicia Carrillo
San Jose, Ca

Joseph Puentes wrote:



Emilie Garcia wrote:

> Victor,
>
> I thought they called it the "Mestizaje"? However, that word is not
> in my Spanish dictionary. I found "mescladura" and "mezcolanza".
> What say you, Jose Roman? What do they call it in Mexico?

Victor is in Mexico as much as Jose Roman. Donde vives Victor?

Victor can you put a little capirotada in a jar and send it to me?:

Joseph Puentes
PO Box 12123
Durham, NC 27709

I haven't had capirotada in over 20 years and i absolutely love it. My
mom didn't make it every

Haplogroup A ancestor---we are a match

Hi! 
 
Someone once explained to me that the mtDNA results were,
in some cases, the result of Spaniards marrying the "local girls" ........is
this what you are referring to, Arturo?    I do not understand
these numbers.....I am just trying to make heads or tails out of it......and to
justify the $$$$ I spent to get these numbers!  :-)  
Seriously, I don't mind spending the money if it will give
me some clues as to my ancestors, the migration pattern they followed,
etc.  I have only researched about three or four generations on my Dad's
maternal line and three or four on my Mom's maternal and paternal lines so I
have a long way to go.  I have been focusing on my Dad's paternal Trevino
lineage and go "way back" to about the 1400s in Spain. 
 
I really enjoy reading the messages everyone is sending
regarding Y-DNA and mtDNA because I am slowing learning a little here and
there.  What I really like is finding out that I have matches to a few in
this group, Linda, Victor

Believe--- Re: [ranchos 2]

well it wouldn't be me to talk on DNA stuff, well not much anyway.



why not ask Gary Felix and then forward the group any answers you might
receive. or go to that discussion group moderated by Gary that Ed
mentioned.



I just don't know enough to comment.



joseph



beelieve wrote:

Hello everyone in our group,
 I am always so very interested in
everything I read from our group.
I am new at this whole thing but am s
l o w l y
learning. Much thanks to Joseph,Arturo and Deena for
all your intro help. My DNA results( via National Geographic
special/family tree) on the maternal side are;
HER Haplography BE
HER differences from CRS
16172C
16183C
16189C
16217C
16391A
16519C
 I have not as of yet been contacted
from anyone with a similar match, but I am hopeful there is someone out
there. Also if ANYONE can help me make heads or tails of what of  these
numbers mean, I sure would like your help.I know my ancestors were from
Zacatecas, Mexico. When I first

Why Brothers DNA???---Romero DNA





Linda R Romero wrote:

First I'd like to thank everyone who has sent me information and  
suggestions for my research into my Romero/de la Torre surname.   
Though I've been to SLC several times, research is slow.  I am late  
in answering you because of our preparations for our winter trip to  
Arizona.  All the last minute obligations, home repairs, and doctor  
visits are taking longer than anticipated.  However, the latest DNA  
postings have stopped me in my tracks.

My mother is English/German/Scottish/Irish/etc. but my mtDNA seems to  
track pretty close with my Dad, who was born in Jalisco.

so you did your Dad's mtDNA but not his YDNA???

if you did your dad's YDNA (not sure) then why would you do your
brother's YDNA? it would be the same as your dad, that is unless he
just wants to have it done for his own interest.



joseph


16428[A]
16256[T]
16270[T]
16399[G]
249[G]
263[G]	
73[G]
16362[C]

My brother has agreed to have his DNA tested for my research.  I have