sharing my mtdna results

Linda,
 
How exciting to know and feel that you are grounded and have a direct connection in the Americas! I guess the bloom where you are planted really applies for you.
 
Felicitaciones ...................Alicia Carrillo
                                        San Jose, Ca

Erlinda Castanon-Long wrote:

Good morning,

Just got my mtdna results back, don't understand most of but my
female line is group A which is pre-Columbian, they take it back
30,000 years... guess we've been here a while! The A group extends
down into South America so our female Indio ancestor was native
born...  Our male ancestors may have been from Spain but they
married Native American women along the line.

This test does not show any of the women from our male lines, just
female to female so it doesn't prove our Espanol or Mulato blood but
the records prove that, so ...I'm happy just having a more complete
picture of our family tree. My proven female line is from Jalisco
Mexico.

Has anyone else in

Padrinos?

Joseph:

I don't think that Padrinos were necessarily blood relatives.  I know 
that in my family, neither of my parents' padrinos are close 
relatives.  This is purely based on anecdotal evidence, but I think 
padrinos were often childhood friends, with which the parents had a 
close comeraderie or even respected members of the community (since 
traditionally, these would take in the child should he or she be 
orphaned, etc. and one would want the child to be well raised).

Given the prevelance of clusters of names (due to surnames often 
being assigned to indigenous people, etc.) it is likely that two 
(unrelated) friends in a rancho would have the same surname.

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
> 
> I know that in most cases the padrinos were members of the family. 
But 
> other than showing this is via examination of the records how do we 
> know? Were there many examples of non blood relatives being the 
> Padrinos? I guess I'm more interested in

explanation of a ventosa

I remember a curandera doing the "Egg
ritual" to an aunt when I was younger. They would rub the egg all over the body
while praying . . . Once they had rubbed the egg completely they would crack the
egg in a glass of water and read the egg. The egg would tell the curandera
wether there was a curse/negativity/future reading on the person. They
would finish the ritual off with herbs (rosemary & others i dont remember)
rubbed all over the body again.
 
~janet in South
Cali.



From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erlinda
Castanon-Long
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:58 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] explanation of a
ventosa


My first cousin, from Jerez Zacatecas sent me this
explanation of a
ventosa so I thought I'd share it.  It's a real
combination of
spiritual with physical which is old world... any comment
from the
Dr. in our group?

A ventosa is as follows:  Mother
would get a meduim size water
glass and pour a little

explanation of a ventosa

My first cousin, from Jerez Zacatecas sent me this explanation of a 
ventosa so I thought I'd share it.  It's a real combination of 
spiritual with physical which is old world... any comment from the 
Dr. in our group?

 A ventosa is as follows:  Mother would get a meduim size water 
glass and pour a little alcohol  into it and swirl it in the glass; 
then she would light it with a match and immediately place it on the 
area where the sprain was. The heat  would cause the muscle to pull 
upward into the glass and that would release the tension on it. The 
glass would remain there a few seconds and then she would repeat the 
procedure. My husband used to enjoy getting them whenever he had a 
back problem. She used them mostly on the torso. The extremeties she 
would massage with her hands after she applied an ointment. The one 
thing she did not believe in was "el mal de ojo". She called that 
brujerias (witchcraft). This is where they would apply a raw egg on 
the body and this would

sharing my mtdna results

Good morning,

Just got my mtdna results back, don't understand most of but my 
female line is group A which is pre-Columbian, they take it back 
30,000 years... guess we've been here a while! The A group extends 
down into South America so our female Indio ancestor was native 
born...  Our male ancestors may have been from Spain but they 
married Native American women along the line.

This test does not show any of the women from our male lines, just 
female to female so it doesn't prove our Espanol or Mulato blood but 
the records prove that, so ...I'm happy just having a more complete 
picture of our family tree. My proven female line is from Jalisco 
Mexico.

Has anyone else in this group done the mtdna?

Linda from Wa.

HVR1 Haplogroup
 A
 
HVR1 differences

from CRS
 16111T
 
  16223T
 
  16290T
 
  16319A
 
  16335G
 
  16362C
 
  16526A
 

 
   
 





Padrinos?



I know that in most cases the padrinos were members of the family. But
other than showing this is via examination of the records how do we
know? Were there many examples of non blood relatives being the
Padrinos? I guess I'm more interested in if  anyone has ever
witnessed a padrino with the same surname of one of the parents
actually being a non blood relative
. Has anyone ever seen this?




Where can I go to read more information on how our relatives picked
Padrinos and the likely hood that they were blood relatives of some
degree?



thanks again you guys are great,



joseph

information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

I would just like to add a comment to interesting information.  Spain was influenced tremendously by the Mohammedan peoples' occupation.  From 711 a.d. to 1492 a.d. Spain experienced the assimilation of many cultural traditions from Semitic, Arabic- and Aramaic-speaking peoples.  Names, behaviors, foods, etc., were brought to Mexico and other parts of the western hemisphere by the invaders from Spain.  Not everyone who left Spain was a Catholic Christian- willing to kiss the Pope's ring.

Davd in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Pacorro73@...
Sent: Jul 24, 2005 2:31 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: information on records & "Guardar  Reposo 40 días"

The forty day tradition following childbirth is quite ancient.  It is part of the Mosaic Law, the Law of Moses, and appears in the Old Testament in the Bible.  Without a doubt the ancient Hebrews and other people of the Middle East practiced this tradition, including in Anatolia, modern day Turkey.

What does this mean?

great I just went and re-examined the original record and found what I
thought was the 5th of October was really the 25th of October making the
13th of the current month much easier for me to comprehend.


thanks David

joseph

David P. Delgado wrote:

Joseph,

It means "...He was born on Saturday the thirteenth of the current month..."

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes 
Sent: Jul 24, 2005 2:47 PM
To: LosRanchos 
Subject: [ranchos] What does this mean?






"Que nacio Sabado trece del corriente..."

"He was born Saturday the 13th of previous month"

?????????

thanks,

joseph




 

SPONSORED LINKS


What does this mean?

Joseph,

It means "...He was born on Saturday the thirteenth of the current month..."

David in Albany, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Puentes 
Sent: Jul 24, 2005 2:47 PM
To: LosRanchos 
Subject: [ranchos] What does this mean?






"Que nacio Sabado trece del corriente..."

"He was born Saturday the 13th of previous month"

?????????

thanks,

joseph




SPONSORED LINKS
http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Aguascalientes+mexico&w1=Aguascalientes+mexico&w2=Aguascalientes&w3=Zacatecas&w4=State+code&w5=Jalisco&w6=Criminal+offenses&c=6&s=114&.sig=8Mx

information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

The forty day tradition following childbirth is quite ancient.  It is part of the Mosaic Law, the Law of Moses, and appears in the Old Testament in the Bible.  Without a doubt the ancient Hebrews and other people of the Middle East practiced this tradition, including in Anatolia, modern day Turkey. 

 

Either because of Jewish tradition or becuase the Spanish Christians were adhering to the fact that for 40 days after Jesus was born, Mary was considered unclean according to Mosaic Law.  After the 40 days were over, both the mother and child were purified.  Here's the Biblical verse:

 


Luke 2:22-24 22And when the forty days of their purification according to the law of Moses were fulfilled, they brought him [Jesus] up to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord 23(as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord), 24and to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
 
 EL DÍA DE LA PRESENTACIÓN

A los cuarenta días del nacimiento de Jesús, María y José se levantaron temprano. Era un día normal en el que María haría su primera visita al templo como se acostumbraba entonces que cada mujer hiciese después del parto. Pusieron carga en una bestia, tomaron al niño y se pusieron en marcha hacia el templo de Jerusalén. José llevaba un par de tórtolas en una canasta...

 
 
The forty-day threshold belief;

People in Anatolia call any sickness experienced by the mother or the baby and any failure to regain health within 40 days of giving birth as "the falling forties" or some similar name such as name; "kirk basmasi", "kirk düsmesi", "kirk karismasi", "logusa basmasi", and "aydas". It is a common belief that a number of living things and objects will harm mother and newborn baby in the forty-day period after birth. Practices and measures to prevent the 'falling forties' are very common.

In order to prevent the 'falling forties';

- Mother and baby are not allowed out for forty days,

- Care is taken not to bring together women and newborn babies who have not passed through this forty-day period.

The falling forties in a baby used to be related to poor development and weight loss. Various religious and magical practices were considered to be a remedy to prevent the falling forties.' Nowadays, such practices are almost extinct.

Forty-day precautions;

Washing the mother and child within 40 days of birth to prevent them falling ill within that period is known as "making the forties". It is commonly referred to as "kirklama", or "kirk dökme" and "kirk çikarma".

The practice is commonly carried out on the 40th day after birth. This period differs according to region, however, and may be carried out on the 7th, 20th, 30th, 37th, 39th or 41st day. Although there may be some differences in procedure in different regions, the aim is the same.

"Making the forties" is still a common practice today as in the past among those customs and practices related to birth.

 

 
 
 
Hope this helps.
Steven H.
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peggy Delgado

To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 23 Jul 2005 23:32:39 -0700
Subject: RE: [ranchos] Re: information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

I have a coworker who is of Indian descent and they, too, have a similar custom.  The new mother stays abed and the relatives do all the housework, preparation of food, etc.  The mother is not allowed to do anything but take care of the newborn.  The duration of this custom is 40 days.
 
Peggy Delgado
-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Emilie Garcia
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:06 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

When I was working at a hospital in Silicon Valley, we hired several Vietnamese immigrants (mostly women) as interpreters.  They too have the custom of the new mother not leaving her bed for an extended time (how long I can't remember).  During this period the mother was waited on hand and foot by her family and served her meals at bedside to eat alone.  They were mostly Buddhists.  How curious that such a custom is practiced world-wide!  I wonder if the Bible or the Koran or Buddhist, etc. teachings all dictate that practice for new mothers?
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA. 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentest
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"
 

Was it literal or was it not. I bet that in different time periods this
rule went from being widely practiced to not. Let's find out.

okay many people have relatives they are visiting when they go to
Mexico. . .let's start asking the old ones what they remember. We don't
need to make this the center of our investigation but a couple of
questions in passing makes for keeping the conversation interesting.

a civil discussion like this is so interesting. . .thank you all for
participating.

joseph

v.h.villarreal wrote:

>I really doubt that this is an accurate interpretation or a widespread
>practice even in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por 40 días" or
>resting for 40 days wasn't supposed to be taken that the mother should
>stay in bed, not taking a bath, etc. rather that she should "keep the
>husband away from her bed for 40 days", if you know what I mean... 
>
>Victor
> 
>






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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS








information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

I have a coworker who is
of Indian descent and they, too, have a similar custom.  The new mother
stays abed and the relatives do all the housework, preparation of food,
etc.  The mother is not allowed to do anything but take care of the
newborn.  The duration of this custom is 40 days.
 
Peggy
Delgado
-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Emilie
Garcia
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:06 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: information on
records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

When I was working at a hospital in Silicon Valley, we hired several
Vietnamese immigrants (mostly women) as interpreters.  They too have the
custom of the new mother not leaving her bed for an extended time (how long I
can't remember).  During this period the mother was waited on hand and
foot by her family and served her meals at bedside to eat alone.  They
were mostly Buddhists.  How curious that

old world remedies

thank you Linda for the wonderful story of your gr-grandma Tula. .
.great story about her skills and knowledge. We have truly lost a lot of
knowledge when our old people pass away without trying to learn as much
as can from them.


My Grandmother Virginia Diaz (dob: Dec 15, 1886 Las Animas, Jalisco) was
a curandera of sorts. She knew some medicines but not as in depth as
I've heard others describe, but she did learn the art of midwifery. I
heard a story of how my sister went into labor and was going to the
hospital but stopped by to see my Grandma on the way. My Grandmother
said that the child was improperly positioned and if my sister wanted
her to repositon the child. Of course my sister said yes and by a series
of hand manipulations with my sister laying in a blanket that was being
pulled to put pressure on my sisters stomach the child was persuaded to
reposition properly. My sister said that she then went on to the
hospital and had a very very easy birth considering it

Fee

True that you can't keep people out without password protecting it, 
but typically people won't find your site unless you advertise 
somewhere.  Believe me, I've set up a couple of sites and monitored 
the activity and the only people that accessed the site were those 
that I gave the URL to.  One site was for a family reunion and 
another was for my daughter's girl scout troop.  People were not 
exactly flocking to those sites.

I don't know if you read the bottom of the info page on genealogical 
society pages, but here is what it says:

"IMPORTANT: After you have your site up and operational, please send 
the URL of your homepage to websites@.... The Websites 
Webmaster will add you to the Guest Pages Index at RootsWeb, which 
should help increase the amount of traffic your page receives." 

The above implies that unless we give Rootsweb the URL to our site we 
would not be added to their index.  That means that doing a search on 
the Rootsweb pages would not find our site.  The

information on records

My maternal grandmother was always known to us as Felicina.  She was 
not even aware of the fact that her legal "civil" name was Evangelina 
until she was required to obtain an official birth certificate for an 
immigration or social security process.  Thank God that the person 
working at the registrar was smart enough to look around a bit and 
find her certificate under her "other" name by matching her parents, 
place of birth, etc.  I think that she even had her birthdate wrong 
by a few days.  Her civil name was Evangelina and nowhere in her 
civil record did the name Felicina appear.  I think this is a pretty 
common phenomenon.  The other is the six brothers whose name 
is "Jose" but each goes under some other name such that "Jose de 
Jesus" is called Chuy, Jose Antonio is called "Tonyo" and Jose 
Francisco is called "Pancho".  


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Alicia Carrillo  wrote:
> This is so interesting and too much of a coincidence.
>  
> My tia who´s my

old world remedies

I just talked with my relative who's mother, Paula Castanon (1896) was 
the midwife, she said her mom would help the Dr. in there town near 
Fresno Ca. for births and that was in the 20's, 30's and 40's. She 
also mentioned that here stateside we get 6 weeks pregnancy leave... 
that's 42 days so is it just an old world custom?  

She also said her Mom did ventosas. People would come to her home when 
they had muscular problems. She was good at massaging backs, arm and 
ankle sprains and she also used special herbs but my relative couldn't 
remember what they were.. I had never heard that word before so I'm 
still learning!

Linda in Wa.



information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

In a message dated 7/22/2005 8:51:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
raices_regias@... writes:

I really
doubt that this is an accurate interpretation or a widespread
practice even
in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por 40 días" or
resting for 40 days
wasn't supposed to be taken that the mother should
stay in bed, not taking
a bath, etc. rather that she should "keep the
husband away from her bed for
40 days", if you know what I mean... 

Victor, actually I think that you both are correct.  I grew up with
the same tradition, that the women had to stay IN HER HOUSE, DO NO PHYSICAL
LABOR during the first 40 days.  In extended family situations, the mother
or spinster sister would come, help with the older children and do the cooking
and cleaning.  It was generally believed that if you did not take care of
yourself during this critical time period, it would make you weak (perhaps even
die), and could possibly affect you from having future children.  The men
accepted this

old world remedies

it would seem the the women of the world over time 
developed "traditions" that worked to keep them healthier, happier 
and connected with other women.  Birth control didn't exist as we 
know it and large families were the rule both by religion and by 
economics in Mexico. It sounds like 40 days worked the world over.

My fathers aunt was a midwife in the district of Jerez Zacatecas.  
She learned her trade from her mother, Gertrudis Caldera (1869).  It 
was a mixture of religion and Indian medicines.  If someone died, 
she knew all the litanies by heart and was always called and never 
failed to go, she spend hours teaching her daughter to recite them 
by heart too. In El Durazno she was also the one who directed 
preparing the body for burial.  She delivered babies, fixed aches 
and pains, gave us Yuerba-Buena for tummy aches and had a remedy for 
everything. She was a blend of superstitious and religious. In doing 
the genealogy I find her Garcia ancestors were Indio and her Alcala

String around the waist

The following is an excerpt from another website that describes Cambodian customs.  When I was working at the hospital, I noticed a distinct physical resemblance between some of the Mexicans and the Cambodian interpreters.  Now here is a description of a similar custom found in Mexico---the string around a pregnant woman's waist.  It is coming back to me somewhat--what that pregnant woman told me about wearing a string around her waist--I believe she said it was to ensure a good pregnancy.
 
Emilie
 
********************************
 
 Many Cambodian villagers believe that a pregnant mother and new born infant are vulnerable to the attentions of mday daem, a spirit who is considered to be the mother of the child in a previous life.  The previous mother is thought to be still emotionally attached to the child.  If the original mother finds fault with the current mother, either during pregnancy or once the baby is born, the spirit mother will try to take the baby back, and this will

More on MultiCultural Health Practices

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:9YVmCDC1V8MJ:www.phac-aspcgc.ca/dca-dea/publications/pdf/multicultural_bf_e.pdf+40+day+post-partum+customs&hl=en#16

The link above has more on multicultural health practices.  Scroll down to bottom of page 16 (start of the Hispanic section which goes to page 20).  Also see the section on India, where it describes the practices during the 40 day postpartum period.  It seems these customs evolved over thousands of years.  I didn't check the links to the other cultures, but I'm sure customs are similar.  Still didn't find anything on the custom of tying a string around the pregnant woman's abdomen.

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard, WA

 

 
 


 



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Program for Multicultural Health: Cultural Competency

http://www.med.umich.edu/multicultural/ccp/culture.htm

The above link is for an index for multi-cultural health practices.  The "Mexican" link brings up the subject of the "cuarentena".  There are several entries.  Other practices were also mentioned such as one handed down from the Aztecs where they place a knife on the pregnant woman's abdomen (I forget why).  Not mentioned is the practice described to me by some Mexican immigrants of tying a string around a woman's abdomen during pregnancy.  The "Somalian" link describes the same 40 day post-partum period observed by Mexicans and Vietnamese that I knew about.  Other cultures have that same custom. Where could it have originated?  It doesn't seem to be Catholic or Christian.

Emilie Garcia

Port Orchard, WA

 






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information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

When I was working at a hospital in Silicon Valley, we hired several Vietnamese immigrants (mostly women) as interpreters.  They too have the custom of the new mother not leaving her bed for an extended time (how long I can't remember).  During this period the mother was waited on hand and foot by her family and served her meals at bedside to eat alone.  They were mostly Buddhists.  How curious that such a custom is practiced world-wide!  I wonder if the Bible or the Koran or Buddhist, etc. teachings all dictate that practice for new mothers?
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard, WA. 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentest
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Re: information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"
 


Was it literal or was it not. I bet that in different time periods this
rule went from being widely practiced to not. Let's find out.

okay many people have relatives they are visiting when they go to
Mexico. . .let's

information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"


Was it literal or was it not. I bet that in different time periods this
rule went from being widely practiced to not. Let's find out.


okay many people have relatives they are visiting when they go to
Mexico. . .let's start asking the old ones what they remember. We don't
need to make this the center of our investigation but a couple of
questions in passing makes for keeping the conversation interesting.


a civil discussion like this is so interesting. . .thank you all for
participating.


joseph

v.h.villarreal wrote:

I really doubt that this is an accurate interpretation or a widespread
practice even in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por 40 días" or
resting for 40 days wasn't supposed to be taken that the mother should
stay in bed, not taking a bath, etc. rather that she should "keep the

husband away from her bed for 40 days", if you know what I mean...

Victor






40 Days-thanks Victor

http://www.aina.org/books/aov.htm

Birth And Baptism

Pregnant women promise that if they have a son they will offer him to
serve the church. But if they have a daughter a sum of money or in kind
they will give to the church as a gift. When the child is born it is
immediately bathed in cold water and sprinkled with salt and wrapped him
cloths. They have learned from what Prophet Khezkiel wrote: "On the day
you were born your biblical cord was not cut, you were not washed in
water and you were not wrapped in cloths."


A son brings more happiness to a family than a daughter. Just like
Armenians when a boy is born all boys quickly go to the relatives of the
newly born boy, bless him and receive gifts.


Baptism

According to custom the child is baptized on the seventh day of its
birth. One day before baptism, the godfather is informed and in the
morning he goes to the mother of the child and takes with him a sheep if
he is wealthy. He takes the child and gives it to his wife

information on records & "Guardar Reposo 40 días"

I'm not an "expert" on this issue, but I do remember
that when I had my first child in 1973, my Nana (born
and raised in Mocorito, Sinaloa) told me about the
fact that in Mexico, the women were confined to
bedrest for the 40 days following the birth of their
children, and that they did not bath for those 40
days.  I never thought to ask her if this was for any
perceived medical reason or superstions of some sort.

Olivia

--- "v.h.villarreal" 
wrote:

> I really doubt that this is an accurate
> interpretation or a widespread
> practice even in the old days.  "Guardar reposo por
> 40 días" or
> resting for 40 days wasn't supposed to be taken that
> the mother should
> stay in bed, not taking a bath, etc. rather that she
> should "keep the
> husband away from her bed for 40 days", if you know
> what I mean...  
> 
> Victor
> 
> --- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Irma GomezLucero
> 
> wrote:
> > I recall telling my mom & aunt about a family
> baptism