Dr.mt

Pedro Muñoz - son or not son of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez ?

Published by 4nt0n10 –

Good morning,

I figured as a new recent member I could pose my first question (many more to follow haha) and be hopeful that someone can shed some light on a roadblock.

My inquiry involves my ancestors Pedro Muñoz and Maria Gonzales, married in 1672 in Lagos de Moreno. Unfortunately the matrimonio record does not list the pretensos parents names nor have I ever encounter the información matrimonial.

I have located the baptisms of 7 children.

After letting this line sit for a while I went on familysearch where individuals have designated
-Pedro Muñoz as the son of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal

Maria Gonzales as the daughter of Francisco Gonzales de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres

This baffles me, since I can only draw 2 conclusions to connect Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez as Pedro’s father
1. The madrina of Pedro and Maria’s son Miguel (born 1683) was Mariana Muñoz (well documented daughter of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez)
2. Some of Pedro’s grandchildren (children of his sons) are listed with the full surname of “Muñoz de Jerez”

I however can draw other conclusions why it may not be true since
1. Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa Gómes de Portugal were married in Sept 1658 - this tree on family search has no sources but claims Pedro was born 1660, meaning he would be around 12 years old marrying in 1672 (although could work, since their first child was born 3 years later in 1675, he would be ~15)
2. My Pedro Muñoz, Maria Gonzales, and all the children were documented as “mestizos” when clearly Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez and Ana Josefa are always listed as “españoles” (although Pedro’s grandchildren -the ones who all began utilizing Muñoz de Jerez” are all listed as “españoles”

The 1669 padrón for Lagos does not show any household of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez (which I have documental evidence that his family were residents of León, Guanajuato around this time period)

The 1676 padrón for Lagos the household of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez is present -sans any Pedro in the household- but is of essentially no help since by 1676 Pedro is already married with a child.

I suppose has anyone ever come across any other documental proof of Nicolás Muñoz de Jerez having a son named Pedro? Perhaps a will/testimony? Any land grants? Anything essentially with mentioning of children or possessions. Or is my Pedro not even of this family.

I took the initiative to message the profile that posted this ancestry and the user didn’t address nothing other than the fact that he was banned from genealogical groups and went on a rant about how everyone disputes his information, how unfairly he is treated blah blah blah.

In any event this line intrigues me greatly since Pedro and Maria are twice my ancestors. And is also of great interest since many of my ancestors for multi generations on other lines were part of the Muñoz de Jerez family’s ownership.

Any help or guidance is appreciated

Published by R.A.Ricci – Mon, 2025-11-24 20:56 | Permalink

Comment

Can you cite a primary source?   A few years ago a genealogist that lived in Colorado did much research on this line, and she could not find any primary sources.  

I have seen that many people take it as a given, but I still would like to see a primary source.   

Published by MunozLine – Sun, 2025-11-23 06:26 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Rick

I understand your skepticism. My friend looked into my genealogy, and got back to me a few days later saying I was related to Manuel the 1st saying he needs to take a knee and kiss the ring next time he see's me stuff like that.  I thought he was pulling my leg and decided to look into it and prove him wrong.

The more I looked into it the more it made sense. King Manuals 1 son  Luís Duke of Beja of Portugal never married Violante Gomez or at least there is no record of it. She was labelled a Converso from Jewish to Christianity after the Christian Reconquista  of Spain. as a result their children were considered illegitimate. The church was reluctant to marry a Converso or baptize a converso child. The name "Gomez de Portugal". comes from Violante Gomez, and the de Portugal part comes from Luis Duke of Beja of Portugal. 

This is link to one of the sources I found.

  https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/mcdonald-family-site/I509485.php

Thanks

David M.

 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sat, 2025-11-22 21:33 | Permalink

Comment

I have never seen the evidence as to who his father is.   Though I did see that he descended from a Jewish woman.  The thing is that when I see the posts that say his father was the king they list someone that wasn’t his mother. 

Rick A. Ricci

Published by MunozLine – Sat, 2025-11-22 08:01 | Permalink

Comment

After reading your post I could not see a link to my paternal Munoz line. 

One name that I noticed was Ana Josefa Gómez de Portugal. 

One of the founders of Lagos De Moreno was man named Juan Gomes de Portugal or Capitan Juan Gomes de Portugal. He was married to Cathalina LOPEZ de la MAdrid de la Cuadra y de NAVA Lopez.

They got married about 1558 at Spain.

Juan was the illegitimate grandson of Manuel1st king of Portugal. Juan had up to 17 children. 

When I see the name ending with Gomez de Portugal in the Lagos de Moreno area I assume there is a link to Capitan Juan and his link to royalty.

Good luck on your hunt!

David M.

Genealogy Research

Revisiting Diego Reynoso y Renteria and Juana Lozano

Published by Lee Ingram –

Greetings,

A recent forum topic (separate thread) that was sorting out the various Christoval Lozano's prompted me to revisit the parentage of Juana Lozano, who was married to Diego Reynoso y Renteria.

Christoval Reynoso y Renteria was a son of Diego Reynoso y Renteria and Juana Lozano.  Christoval Reynoso y Renteria did leave marriage information in both his marriages, the first in 1735 (to Gertrudis Flores de la Torre, and the last in 1741 (to Anna Maria Gonzalez de Rubalcava).  

In his 1741 marriage to Anna Maria Gonzalez de Rubalcava he was noted as the widow of Gertrudis Flores de la Torre. It was also noted in this record that he was the son of Diego de Reynoso and Juana Lozano. The 1741 marriage information record (Mezquital del Oro) provided the relations between earlier Rubalcava family members (Matias and Joseph Rubalcava),  which are all noted at the following record:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-15212-19282-45?cc=1804458

Besides the 2nd marriage information listed above, it was also known that Christoval Reynoso y Renteria and Maria Gertrudis Flores de la Torre were dispensed in 1735, as shown in the index at the following record:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9S9-WZ1R?cc=1937239

The issue with the 1735 marriage dispensation was that it could not be found. This was "partially solved".

Christoval Reynoso's mother (Juana Lozano y Flores de la Torre) had always been a mystery until recently, when her parentage was revealed in misfiled tronco's found in a December 1734 Monclova (Coahuila) marriage dispensation record for Juan Menchaca and Maria Sapopa Flores y Valdes. 

This is still not a complete marriage dispensation, but to Juchipila area researchers, the misfiled tronco's provide the parentage of Juana Lozano y Flores de la Torre, and hopefully can fill in a few gaps to the the Juchipila based Christoval Lozano family.

The tronco's are as follows:

Tronco 1:
Cathalina Moscoso Sandoval and Maria Moscoso Sandoval were sisters.
Maria Moscoso Sandoval was the mother of Christoval Lozano, who was the father of Juana Lozano, who was the mother of Christoval Reynoso y Renteria (groom).
Cathalina Moscoso Sandoval was the mother of Josefa (Gonzalez) Rubalcava, who was the mother of Nicolas Flores de la Torre, who was the father of Maria Gertrudis de la Torre (bride)
-
Tronco 2:
Nicolas Flores de la Torre and Josepha Flores de la Torre were brother/sister.
Nicolas Flores de la Torre was the father of Nicolas Flores, who was the father of Maria Gertrudis Flores de la Torre (bride)
Josepha Flores de la Torre was the mother of Juana Lozano, who was the mother of Christoval Reynoso y Renteria (groom).

The tronco's are listed at the following link:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6X9G-77?cc=1874591

Regards,

Lee

Genealogy Research

Sierra de Pinos: Juan Diaz de Leon “El Viejo”

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –

Hola primos y primas,

I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon “El Viejo” and Francisca de Ortega, through their son, Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo,” and his marriage to Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor. From them, I descend from 2 sons: Jacinto Diaz, m. Sebastiana Gil, and Joseph Diaz, m. Antonia Delgadillo, the 2 lines reconnecting with the marriage of their grandchildren, Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carrillo-Diaz de Leon.

Recently, I came upon some notary records, which might establish when this family first settled in Sierra de Pinos. I thought I might share them here, for review and discussion.

First, though I have later generations well-documented, I don’t have a hard fix on the first. According to Don Jaime Holcombe, in his Varias Cartas (p. 171), Juan Diaz de Leon and Francisco Ortega had seven offspring:

a. Maria de Ortega, m. Hernan Perez de Mojica. With issue.
b. Pedro Diaz de Leon, b. 1615-1619. Testigo on various IM’s in Pinos, possibly married to Josefa de Santiago, with issue.
c. Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo”, m. Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, md 17 Aug 1648, Pinos. With issue.
d. Antonio Diaz de Leon, b. 26 May 1621, Pinos. (Holcombe)
e. Antonia Diaz de Leon. (Holcombe)
f. Luis Diaz de Leon. (Holcombe)
g. Joseph Diaz de Leon, b. 13 Jun 1630, Pinos (Holcombe); was a testigo 21 Dec 1648, age 20.

I’ve only found records for four (a, b, c & g); would anybody have anything else on this family group?

BIRTH OF JUAN DIAZ DE LEON EL VIEJO

From 2 IM’s for which he was a witness, we can establish that Juan Diaz de Leon was born around 1580:

10 May 1650 IM for Joseph Gonzalez and Anna de Casteñeda; Juan Diaz de Leon El Viejo (as he’s listed) gave his age as “around 70” (ca. 1580). Left image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B75W-C?mode=g&i=133&wc=3PS…

21 Feb 1651 IM for granddaughter, Antonia Perez Mojica and Gines Carrion; his age is given as “over 60” (before 1591). Left image:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B75N-3?mode=g&i=90&wc=3PS9…

MINE & LAND REGISTRATIONS

In the San Luis Potosi Registros de Minas 1604 Exp 1-5, on 1 Mar 1604, Juan Diaz de Leon files claims on no less that 7 mines, located in Pinos. Credible witnesses present were Jorge Leal, Diego Delgado and Maria Fernandez Pinto. Other miners/individuals named are Francisco Gonzalez, Antonio Gutierrez?, Leonor de Segura, Julian de Santa Maria, Diego Camacho, Juan de Morales, Juan Ruiz de Roza, Maria de Ortega, Juan del Campo, Francisco Lopez, Pedro Anrrq.z?, and Juan Dias.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S7DY

On the same roll, from a document dated 27 Oct 1604, Juan Diaz de Leon registers “a sitio en el Descubrimiento de Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Cuzco [de Sierra de Pinos],” with a main house, a compound for Indians, and an ore mill and smelter for his metals; located in la Cieneguilla de las Encinillas, on a water hole, it was bordered by the properties of Jorge Leal, Juliana de Sotomayor, and Julian de Santa Maria.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-S74T

This is likely when Encinillas became the family seat of the Diaz de Leon, though Juan Diaz was already in the area, previously: found at the General Archives of the Indies in Sevilla, is a map, dated 12 Nov 1603, of a proposed town, “to be founded on the Goleta plains, 4 leagues from the mines of Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos.” It shows the proposed layout of a town, with streets, a plaza mayor, and lots, assigned to individuals. One of the lots is assigned to Juan Diaz de Leon (one block south of the main plaza).
Código de Referencia: ES.41091.AGI/27.17//MP-MEXICO,51
Archivo General de Indias
Mapas y Planos
Mapas, planos, etc.: México
Planta de la nueva población que se ha de hacer en los llanos de la Goleta, a cuatro leguas de las minas de Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion de Sierra de Pinos.

I hope you find this information useful, and comments, questions and corrections are welcome.

Gracias y Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Published by trdiazdeleon – Thu, 2025-11-20 07:18 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny, 

Thank you for these insights !

I am curious about how you were able to confirm that Francisca de Ortega was indeed the daughter of Luis Maldonado (himself the son of Luis Maldonado and Inés Sánchez de Ortega). Based on your previous comments on the topic (above), I had understood that we were still uncertain which Luis Maldonado was her father. How did you arrive to this conclusion ?

Kind regards

Tristán Díaz de León

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Wed, 2025-11-05 16:06 | Permalink

Comment

Hola Tristan,

This is a boilerplate document used by notaries for when people wanted to grant someone authority to handle a task for them - basically, to retain someone for a job. If you look at other documents in this same batch, you’ll notice they use the same template. Here’s the opening paragraph:

“Sepan quantos esta carta vieren como yo, Francisco Marin Manzano, vecino y minero de este pueblo, otorgo y conozco que doy todo mi poder cumplido de derecho bastante a Francisco de Ortega y a Juan Diaz de Leon, vecinos en las minas de Sierra de Pinos y a cualquier de ellos solidum.”

Afterwhich, there is a page of legalese, followed by a blank space allowing for specifics - typically, the reason for the power granted (from handling lawsuits, to handling sales, to collecting runaway livestock, among other tasks). There doesn’t appear to be any additional information here, only that the power was granted in said town and on said date, and that it was signed by the granter.

To me, the name of the first recipient looks more like “Francisco de Hortega” rather than “Francisca” - which would make more sense, since if it were Juan Diaz’s wife, as this was a legal document, they’d have named him first, and identified her as his wife. If it is Francisco de Ortega, I don’t know who he was: perhaps he is Francisco Sanchez de Ortega, who was an early resident in SLP and Pinos, and who was originally from La Palma, Canarias, where Francisca Ortega’s father, Luis Maldonado, was from: Luis Maldonado’s mother was named Ines Sanchez de Ortega, so they might even be related.

Cool find. I’m loving those new filters FamilySearch has added, linked to the AI: I’ve spent many an hour foraging through every image on those film rolls, looking for any info on our ancestors, and now it’s so much easier!

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by trdiazdeleon – Thu, 2025-09-18 10:02 | Permalink

Comment

Dear all,

I have identified a new document regarding Juan Díaz de León which is dated 1603 : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-SSZT?view=fullText&keywords=Juan%20D%C3%ADaz%20de%20Le%C3%B3n&lang=fr&groupId=

I'm afraid I can't read it but it seems that it concerns Francisca de Ortega as well. Could someone try to understand the topic of this document ? 

Tristan Díaz de León

Published by Rose Hardy – Sun, 2023-07-09 22:16 | Permalink

Comment

I am also related to Juan Diaz de Leon and his daughter Maria Ortega. I've been doing work in San Luis Potosi and Guanajuato. I've noticed the city of San Luis Potosi in San Luis Potosi has been people from Sierra de Pinos.

Great work.

Rose Gonzales-Hardy

Published by RG7814 – Fri, 2023-05-26 06:52 | Permalink

Comment

Hola primos!

Amazing the amount of work all of you have put in and I have learned so much as far as the lineage but I would like to learn more as to who these people are. I descend from Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo" and his son "El Mozo", and then  Andres DDL. I was wondering if anyone had information as to what their Juan's role was in regards to Pinos? I know his name is on the map in 1603 and owned some mines, but is there any other info anyone else can share? 

Thank you so much!


Rosendo Gutierrez-Diaz

Published by R.A.Ricci – Thu, 2021-02-25 02:47 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Manny,

When I was a kid, family members would say that Vikki Carr was a distant cousin of ours. I did her family tree and found that she is repeatedlyrelated to my family as she has ancestors from all over Los Altos de Jalisco. I wanted to let you know that she also descends from Andres Diaz de Leon-Duron and Maria Estefania Carillo.

Vikki Carr was her stage name. Part of her father’s ancestral family was mainly from Los Altos de Jalisco, and the other part was mainly from the state of New Mexico. She is also is related to coach Tom Flores through her Altos de Jalisco ancestral roots and is related to quarterback Jim Plunkett through her New Mexico ancestral roots.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hola prim@s,

I was surprised to see that I hadn’t posted this yet, but then I remembered that this site was down for a while. This is another testamento of Juan Diaz de Leon “el Viejo,” dated 17 Jan 1636, antedating the other by almost twenty years. This one gives us some new information, in that it names his wife, Francisca de Ortega, as the daughter of Luis Maldonado. It says she received no dowry when they married, and that everything that they had, they gained together. It also names two previously unknown sons: Diego Diaz and Luis Maldonado (confirmed in Oct 1638 in Pinos). These two obviously died young and likely left no offspring, since none are mentioned in Juan Diaz de Leon’s second testamento.
As to the identity of Luis Maldonado, Francisca de Ortega’s father: there were two early residents of San Luis Potosi - Luis Maldonado and his brother, Capitan Miguel Maldonado, both born in La Palma, Islas Canarias, sons of escribano publico Luis Maldonado and doña Inés Sanchez de Ortega. The younger Luis Maldonado died by Sep 1603, and I don’t know if he ever married. It’s possible that Francisca de Ortega is the daughter of either Luis Maldonado, and that doña Inés Sanchez de Ortega is the source of the “Ortega” used by Francisca and her daughters.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Great work Manny!

Based on the information that you provided that they were from the Canary Islands, I compiled a possible ancestral line for Francisca Ortega. The dates and places match.

Alvaro Sanchez de La Fuente had at least two wives Ines Sanchez de Ortega descends from both wives.

1)- Alvaro Sanchez de La Fuente m. Beatriz Anaya
2)- Hernan Sanchez de la Fuente m. Ines Gutierrez
3)- Francisca Gutierrez m. Pedro Hernandez de Rociano
4)- Esteban Hernandez Ortega (Aka Esteban Hernández Rociano) m. Isabel de Aday (daughter of Hernan Gómez and Francisca De Aday)
5)- Leonor de Ortega m. Diego Perez de Villanueva (son of Maria Sanchez (aka de la Fuente ) Zambrana and Juan Perez de Villanueva

[Leonor Ortega and Diego Perez de Villanueva are closely related. They have grandparents that are half siblings. ]

Probably (upgraded from possibly)
6)- Ines Sanchez de Ortega m . Luis Maldonado
—————
Possibly (Manny Diez Hermosillo identified Francisca Ortega’s father as Luis Maldonado)
7)- Francisca Ortega m Juan Diaz de Leon

The “Sanchez de La Fuente”/“Sanchez de La Feria” family was nobility.

The Perez de Villanueva ancestry appears to be of Jewish Converso origins and attempts were made hide to this fact and give it a false history of “cristiano viejos”. They were involved in the textile industry and the buying and selling of sugar. The false ancestry involved the surname “Fernandez de Bettencourt”.

There is a descent from The Bethencourt family but it is through Francisca de Aday (aka Francisca Ramos). This line goes back many generations into France.

———————————————————————————————————————
Second line of descent from Alvaro Sanchez and Beatriz de Anaya:

1)- Alvaro Sanchez de La Fuente m. Beatriz Anaya
2)- Hernan Sanchez de la Fuente m. Olaya Rodríguez Zambrana
3)- Francisco Sanchez (aka Francisco Zambrana) m. —— [ I will add her name later as I am still studying the different surnames she also used]
4)- Maria Sanchez de La Fuente Zambrana (aka Sanchez) m. Juan Perez de Villanueva
5)- Diego Perez de Villanueva m. Leonor de Ortega

Probably (upgraded from possibly)
6)- Ines Sanchez de Ortega m . Luis Maldonado
—————
Possibly (Manny Diez Hermosillo identified Francisca Ortega’s father as Luis Maldonado)
7)- Francisca Ortega m Juan Diaz de Leon

Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci
Book•Mygenes2000

Comment

If Manny is able to find evidence that the Luis Maldonado that is the father of Francisca de Ortega is the same Luis Maldonado that is married to Ines Sanchez de Ortega then we can connect to an aboriginal ancestry from Islas Canarias. These aboriginals have dna that they share with a community from North Africa. Many of these aboriginals were light skinned and blond according to some sources. If you descend from this line, your dna results may show a small percentage of French and North African ancestry. The French coming from the Bethencourt ancestral line.

Comment

Thanks for your contributions, Rick.

I still don’t know if Francisca de Ortega descends from Luis Maldonado cc Ines Sanchez de Ortega. For all I know, she was from Ayamonte, like Juan Diaz de Leon, and they married before arriving in Mexico. I’m just running on assumptions, since I know they had a continuous presence in San Luis Potosi.

As for the Luis Maldonado who lived in SLP, I was hoping to find his testamento, but all I could find is the inventory of his shop, which was submitted on 5 Sep 1603 by his executor, Diego Romero. It doesn’t name his parents, so I don’t know how RMB knows that he was the son of Luis Maldonado and Ines Sanchez de Ortega.
I did find a promissory note dated 2 Mar 1603, in which Luis Maldonado and his son-in-law, Juan Diaz, agreed to pay Jacome Jinoves 255 pesos. I don’t know if this Juan Diaz is our Juan Diaz de Leon, since in most notarized documents, ours used the compound surname. Unfortunately, this Juan Diaz couldn’t sign his name - but then, neither could ours, until at least 1631, anyways. Diego Romero was their creditor for this transaction. Interestingly enough, on 25 Nov 1604, Juan Diaz de Leon sold his entire mining operation in SLP to the same Diego Romero.

While Luis Maldonado has been illusive, his supposed brother, Capitan Miguel Maldonado - who I know was son of Luis Maldonado cc Ines Sanchez de Ortega - appears with great frequency in the archives. From various records, we know that brothers Felipe and Alonso de Fraga Corbalan were his nephews. They were the sons of Juan de Fraga Corbalan cc Isabel Diaz de Avila, of La Palma, Canarias; Isabel Diaz de Avila was daughter of Diego Sanchez de Ortega and another Isabel Diaz de Avila. The obvious link would be through Ines and Diego Sanchez de Ortega, who were likely siblings, so Miguel Maldonado and the Fraga brothers were at least 1st-cousins, 1-time removed:

Probable parentestco:
Diego Sanchez de Ortega-1-Ines Sanchez de Ortega
Isabel Diaz de Avila-2-Miguel Maldonado
Felipe de Fraga-3

Another cousin was Francisco Sanchez de Ortega, who submitted his testamento on 29 May 1620. He was son of Juan Sanchez de Ortega and Maria Ponce de Leon. His executors were his cousins Alonso de Fraga and Simon Ponce.

Simon Ponce was son of Cristobal Ponce and Luisa Perez. He submitted his testamento on 12 Oct 1633 and his executor and heir was his cousin, Alonso de Fraga. He was to be entombed in the same crypt as his cousins, Miguel Maldonado and Felipe de Fraga.
There was another Cristobal Ponce who lived in early SLP, who according to RMB, was also a cousin of Miguel Maldonado, though I don’t know how they’re related. So apparently, there was an entire network or cousins in early SLP, all from La Palma, Canarias.

Hope you’re all well!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Comment

Thank you Manny!

I will again take the information that you have provided and work to see if I can find the ancestry of the cousins in Las Canarias.

Keep up your excellent work. If we do find that there is a connection to the family that I posted, then I will post the very interesting history of their ancestors. It goes back a long way and there is a lot of documentation regarding this adventurous family.

Take care,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by trdiazdeleon – Sun, 2020-10-11 09:47 | Permalink

Comment

Hello everyone,

I have a small information that could be useful in the origins of Diaz de Leon family. As we all know now Juan Diaz de Leon, El viejo, was from the city of Ayamonte. While searching for his license to New Spain, i found a document called "Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Isabel de León, criada del licenciado Alonso de Villalba, natural de Ayamonte, hija de Francisco Hernández Cataño e Isabel Díaz de León, a Charcas." The document is dated 1603 which is the same year as when Juan Diaz de Leon was registered in Pinos's map. I think this might be a lead on Juan Diaz de Leon's origins.

Tristan Diaz de Leon

Published by jeantavera – Thu, 2019-12-05 10:36 | Permalink

Comment

Puedo decir que el año de su nacimiento esta alrededor de 1591 según su testamento fechado el 25 de agosto de 1655 en la ciudad de San Luis Potosí, dejo el siguiente fuente y link para su valoración:

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHWT?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 55 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6YR?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 56 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

"México, San Luis Potosí, registros varios, 1570-1882," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H6KV?cc=2040013&wc=MX… : 21 May 2014), Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27 > image 57 of 58; Archivo Histórico del Estado de San Luis Potosí (San Luis Potosí State Archives, San Luis, Potosí).

Saludos Familia descendiente de Díaz de León.

Atte. Jean H. Tavera 12va. Generación Descendiente de Juan Díaz de León.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2016-04-20 12:03 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny,

You did not list a second marriage for Juan Diaz de Leon. In my records I do have him married first to Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor but I also have a second marriage in 1669 to Juana Trujillo. Is this a mistake in my records? I also have children by this marriage.
Thanks for all your help,
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Hi Rick,

I believe the Juan Diaz de Leon, who married Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, and the one who married Juana Trujillo, were 2 different people, because Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor died a widow and was buried 03 Apr 1713, in Pinos. So, there's no way Juan Diaz could've married Juana Trujillo en 2os, since he died before Jacinta (right image): https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-YT7D-R?mode=g&i=140&wc=3P9…

The one married to Juana Trujillo might be their son, the same who married Josefa Luisa Garcia de Nava, or he might be the son of Pedro Diaz de Leon and Josefa Gutierrez, who baptized a Juan, 02 Aug 1643, Sagrario SLP (right image):
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GG2L-99QG?mode=g&i=486&wc=…

There's also the possibility that he descended from an entirely different family. There's a Tomas Diaz de Leon cc Maria de la Mota, who baptized Ysabel, 10 Jul 1622, in Puebla de Zaragoza, Pue; there was also another Juan Diaz de Leon cc Barbola Bautista, who baptized Catalina, 02 Feb 1623, in Santa Catarina Martin, Mexico DF. Both couples drop off the map, so I haven't been able to track them.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Dear Manny,

Thank you for clarifying that it is a different Juan Diaz de Leon. I will separate them in my records. I had Jacinta as the first wife but other genealogists had Jacinta as the second wife with Juana Trujillo as the first. I wonder if he had two households at the same time? Until we get more information, they will stay in my records as two separate people.
Thanks again,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Wed, 2016-03-30 14:04 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny,

Ex President of Mexico Lopez Portillo descends from Diego Ochoa Garibay. There are also connections through my Padilla and Martinez de Sotomayor lines.

I told this information to my sister and she replied that she knew Lopez Portillos brother and knows his family. She also told me that my great aunt married ex president Fox's maternal uncle. I had some information on my second cousins but did not have the connection to Fox in my files. One of My grandmothers half-sisters was my baptismal godmother. Her daughter, Norma is the person who gave me some information on this branch of the family a long time ago, but It did not have connection to Fox, just the name of another great aunts husband, their children and grandchildren.

My oldest sister is not a genealogist, but when I inform her of my research, she has often come up with additional information that is invaluable to my work.

I would like to research more Mexican ex president genealogies. Do you know of any books or sites that will provide more information?
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Hi Rick,

I’m unaware of any literature on the genealogies of presidents - it would be fascinating, I’ll ask around, and do some digging.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hola primos,

Again, I owe a debt of gratitude to our prima, Mary Lou, for sharing the index of SLP testamentos; with the information given, I was able to locate that of Juan Diaz de Leon “El Viejo,”

Protocolos notariales 1655, vol 2 exp 22-27;
Exp 27, 26 Aug 1655, img55
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-958X-HHWT?mode=g&i=54&wc=M…

We now have his parents’ names, and his probable place of origin: Juan Diaz de Leon and Ynes Dominguez de Garfias, vecinos y naturales de la Villa de Ayamonte (Huelva) en los Reinos de Castilla.

He names 6 surviving children, born from his marriage with Francisca de Ortega (who still lived, and who would administer his “bienes”):
Ana de Ortega
Maria de Ortega
Francisca de Ortega
Pedro Diaz de Leon
Juan Diaz de Leon
Fray Antonio Diaz de Leon (del Orden de ????? Anyone?)

All 3 daughters were married, and all of his children were over the age of 25 (born before 1630). As mentioned in the index, his children were his heirs, and albaceas were his son, Juan Diaz de Leon, and grandson, Juan de Rebolloso, vecino del Cerro de San Pedro (probably the same Juan de Rebolloso mentioned in RMB’s “Diccionario…” p. 536, as “minero. Estante en el Cerro de San Pedro,” and who would be son of either Ana or Francisca de Ortega, since Maria de Ortega married Hernan Perez de Mojica).

According to Holcombe’s “Cartas,” Juan Diaz and Francisca de Ortega baptized Joseph Diaz de Leon, 13 Jun 1630, in San Matias, Pinos. I believe this is him, as a testigo on the 21 Dec 1648 IM of Cristobal Garcia and Ysabel Mendoza; his age is given as 20 years. What a beautiful signature he had!:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-B7TS-9?mode=g&i=58&wc=3PS9…

He apparently died before Aug 1655, since he’s not listed as an heir.

So, all of the Diaz de Leon in SLP and Nueva Galicia descend from Pedro and Juan “El Mozo,” respectively, in accordance with family lore.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Dear Manny,

Congratulations on this find. What wonderful news to extend this family to Huelva. Finding Juan Diaz El Viejo de Leons parents, juan Diaz and Ynes Dominguez de Garfias now brings the ancestral search to Spain. I have spent most of my research lately on researching family lines on the Iberian peninsula and southern France.

Dear Mary Lou,

Thanking you very much for providing the resources for Mannys research.

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

You are all so very welcome. I am impressed with the volume of work and research that you are doing and glad that my contributions are helping. I have so much more that I want to get out there. Have not had much access to my archives, but in a couple of weeks that will change.

Mary Lou

Comment

Hola primos,

Here's the revised family group for the first generation of Diaz de Leon, with my notes from the 26 Aug 1655 testamento of Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo." I hope you all find this useful:

Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo," hijo de Juan Diaz de Leon & Ynes Dominguez de Garfias, vecinos y naturales de Ayamonte.
Francisca de Ortega, hija de ?

a. Ana de Ortega, m. ? Rebolloso
b. Francisca de Ortega, m. Simon Lopez de Olivares (2 daughters: Josefa de Olivares & Antonia de Valdes)
c. Maria de Ortega, m. Hernan Perez de Mojica
d. Pedro Diaz de Leon, m. Josefa de Santiago y Gutierrez
e. Juan Diaz de Leon "El Mozo," m. Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, im. 08 Aug 1648, San Matias, Pinos
f. Fray Antonio Diaz de Leon (Jesuit?)
g. Joseph Diaz de Leon, b. 13 Jun 1630, San Matias, Pinos (Holcoombe). Testigo on IM 21 Dec 1648, San Matias, Pinos; age 20.
h. Luis Diaz de Leon (Holcoombe).
i. Antonia Diaz de Leon (Holcoombe).

Heirs: Pedro Diaz de Leon and Juan Diaz de Leon.
Albaceas: sons, Pedro Diaz, Juan Diaz & Fray Antonio Diaz, and grandson Juan de Rebolloso.
Tenedora de Bienes: Francisca de Ortega su mujer.
Tutora y Curadora de hijos menores: Francisca de Ortega su mujer.

Bienes: casa de vivienda en San Luis Potosi; casa de vivienda con su solar en Sierra de Pinos, ? de minas; 3 esclavos: Mulata Ysabel? (page torn) y sus hijos, Juan y Pedro.

NOTES:

On introduction, says his parents were "residents and natives of Ayamonte," rather than "residents of Nueva Espana," implying that they didn't pass to Indies. Therefore, Juan Diaz de Leon "El Viejo" was likely born in Ayamonte, Huelva.

Juan Diaz de Leon requested that he be buried in the parrish church of San Luis Potosi.

Joseph Diaz, Luis Diaz and Antonia Diaz died before Aug 1655.

On 2nd image, says "...al tiempo (...) case con Francisca de Ortega mi legitima mujer ni la dicha ni yo no trujimos bienes conocidos ningunos..." No dowry?

Daughter Ana de Ortega was probably married to Juan de Rebolloso, a merchant in early SLP. She apparently had a son named Juan de Rebolloso, who might have been the miner in Cerro de San Pedro.

Daughter Francisca de Ortega issued her testamento in Feb 1661 before Pedro de Avalos in SLP (1661 protocolos begin in May 1661, so not available online).

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny,

This is great work. Thank you for providing us with this information. Juan Diaz de Leon and Francisca de Ortega are my ancestors too. I had a couple of questions. you mention she had no dowry, does that means something that she had no dowry. also you mention the house in sierra de pinos "casa de vivienda con su solar en Sierra de Pinos" what does solar mean?

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hi Danny,

You're welcome.

It was customary for the families of brides to give a dowry, when a daughter married. I don't know the significance of why there was no dowry, it just seems odd, since dowries were the norm, with the landed classes.

A "solar" is a "lot," or a parcel of land.

Here is Francisca de Ortega II's testamento, 12 Feb 1662. Her mother was still alive. She received a dowry of 2,500 pesos.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G58X-H7N4?mode=g&i=53&wc=M…

Saludos,
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Dear Manny, 

For the records, José Díaz de León died on August 5th, 1650 in the city Xalapa (Veracruz) "en las casas de la morada de Juana Gómez viuda". I don't know what kind of business brought him there and why he was so far away from Sierra de Pinos. He did had time to confess and receive all the sacraments.

Link : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GP48-99DF?wc=3P3B-GP6%3A176854101%2C176854102%2C178353801%26cc%3D1883382&lang=fr&i=524&cc=1883382

Bests, 

Tristán Díaz de León

Published by Nandin – Mon, 2016-02-15 08:21 | Permalink

Comment

Hello, Manny.

Glad to see your interest in San Luis Potosi where I was surprised to find several of my lines (Galvan, de la Cerda, Diaz Infante, Montanez and Marquez to name a few). Here's a link to a research paper that may help you. It covers SLP testaments from 1642 to 1671. It's a summary report and I believe only those persons who died are named. There's a Diaz de Leon. Don't know if he is your line.

From time to time I will add files to my Dropbox GENEALOGY folder. It will be a mishmash of drafts, finished papers, Family Group Sheets, handwritten notes and extractions and just stuff that may help others.

Mary Lou

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

Comment

Hello Danny,

The names Diego Camacho and Juliana de Sotomayor caught my eye, too. I think I've seen Diego Camacho in the San Luis Potosi archives, but I've never seen Juliana de Sotomayor before, that's a new name to me. They may be related to the Martinez de Sotomayor.

Rick,

I've seen it written "Delgado," too, but I think it's a "typo" or even an abbreviation. I haven't seen a link between the Delgado of Pinos and the Delgadillo of Nochistlan.

Mary Lou,

That is likely the same Juan Diaz de Leon - he did have sons named Juan & Pedro, and he would have died around 1655. I haven't determined whether he had a grandson named Juan de Revolloso, but that should be easily remedied. Great lead, thanks! And thanks for sharing your notes & files - I imagine there is a "silvermine" of information in there!

Gracias y saludos a todos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Hi, I am researching De La Cerda, from Sierra De Pinos, Zacatecas.
Ursula De La Cerda Contreras.
For some reason after 25 or more years of research I just in the past few days was able to greatly expand my Zacatecas, San LuisPotosi and Aguascalientes lines.

Comment

I have lots of de la Cerdas in my ancestry. how far back have you gone?
here's some of the de la Cerdas on the Wikitree.

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/L%C3%B3pez_de_la_Cerda-6

Danny C. Alonso

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 11:02 PM, wrote:

> Hi, I am researching De La Cerda, from Sierra De Pinos, Zacatecas. Ursula
> De
> La Cerda Contreras. For some reason after 25 or more years of research I
> just
> in the past few days was able to greatly expand my Zacatecas, San
> LuisPotosi
> and Aguascalientes lines.
>

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Sun, 2016-05-01 16:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hola primos,

Wow, I started this thread to nail down the 1st generation of the Diaz de Leon, of Sierra de Pinos, and it looks like we’ve done just that!

Mary Lou just uploaded some extractions from the early San Matias, Pinos, baptisms (thanks, again!):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yop1j3tqornd0xh/AABnVNtOvuDJtcuW0Gk5vgBHa?or…

As expected, among them appear Juan Diaz de Leon and Francisca de Ortega (baptisms for sons Antonio and Joseph), as well as their 3 daughters, Ana, Francisca and Maria de Ortega. Though hard dates aren’t yet posted, years are, and relationships are confirmed. We now know that Ana de Ortega aka Ana Diaz married Juan de Rebolloso, who was likely the same who was a merchant, in early SLP. We also have the birth year of their son, Juan de Rebolloso (1621), who was one of his grandfather’s albaceas.

More to come!
Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny, this is great news. Im interested in knowing as much as I can about the Diaz de Leons. They were one of the first old families I connected to.

Danny C. Alonso

Comment

Hola prim@s,

Most Diaz de Leon’s, born before 1750 and living in Sierra de Pinos and surrounding communities, can be traced back to Juan Diaz de Leon cc Francisca de Ortega, one way or another. Nonetheless, there are still some individuals who have eluded identification. I’ve managed to catch up with some, which I’ll share here, for those of you who may descend from these families.

Santiago Diaz de Leon married Juana de Espitia, aka Juana de Cuenca, on 1 Jun 1674, in Aguascalientes. Their parents aren’t named, and their IM is lost. On their marriage record, he is called Andres Diaz de Santiago, and on other records, he’s listed as Santiago Diaz [de Leon], Andres Diaz, and on one, as Andres Garcia.

From their timeline, Juana de Cuenca y Espitia can be a granddaughter of Antonio de Cuenca and Juana de Espitia, of Aguascalientes, though I still don’t know who her parents are (they aren’t Joseph de Cuenca cc Teresa de Araiza Medina, who had a daughter named Juana, but she married Nicolas Valades).

As for the origin of Andres Diaz, aka Santiago Diaz, my first candidate was Andres, son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, baptized 20 Aug 1653, in San Felipe Apostol, Gto. This makes sense, because several of their children married in Aguascalientes, But then, “Santiago” made me think of a possible connection to Pedro Diaz de Leon cc Josefa de Santiago, which would reconcile his use of “Diaz de Santiago.”

The first clue to his identity came in the form of an IM that Sarod77 located and sent to me: Joseph Miguel Diaz de Leon and Marcela Martina Bernal, 16 Dec 1781, Nra. Sra. de Belen, Asientos. Miguel Diaz was son of Francisco Gordiano Diaz and Micaela Carrillo, and Marcela Bernal was daughter of Vicente Bernal and Gregoria Josefa Diaz: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DHQQ-7JW?i=590&wc=M6QX…

According to witnesses, the bride and groom were at 5 degrees consanguinity, therefore they didn’t need a dispensation. A tree is given:

Juan Jose Diaz-1-Santiago Diaz
Jacinto Diaz-2-Joaquin Diaz
Andres Diaz-3-Joseph Diaz
Francisco Gordiano Diaz-4-Gregoria Josepha Diaz
Jose Miguel Diaz-5-Marcela Bernal

The groom’s pedigree corresponds with what I had, “Juan Jose Diaz” being Juan Diaz de Leon “El Mozo,” who was married to Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor. Santiago Diaz is said to be his brother, therefore, Santiago Diaz de Leon is son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Francisca de Ortega. But this is not possible, because they had no son named, “Santiago.” Furthermore, from records that I had found, Santiago Diaz had no son named “Joaquin”: Jose Diaz, who was father of Gregoria Josefa Diaz, mother of the bride, was the son of Santiago Diaz and Juana de Espitia. So, the witnesses added a generation. The tree should look like this:

Jacinto Diaz-1-Santiago Diaz
Andres Diaz-2-Jose Diaz
Francisco Gordiano Diaz-3-Gregoria Josefa Diaz
Jose Miguel Diaz-4-Marcela Bernal

This places Santiago Diaz at 1 degree with Jacinto Diaz, meaning they were brothers, and both sons of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor. He is Andres, baptized 20 Aug 1653, San Felipe Apostol, Gto. ¡GOL!

This also places the bride and groom at 4 degrees, meaning they required a dispensation, though they managed to slip under the radar - for the time being.

A couple of weeks after sending me the first IM, Sarod77 sent me another document, dated 4 Sep 1789, and in San Matias, Pinos, with a note saying that I was right, “there was no Joaquin Diaz.” Apparently, 8 years later, Miguel Diaz and Marcela were censured by the Church, for being at 4 degrees consanguinity. I’m not sure what the outcome was, since a portion of the document is written in Latin, which I don’t understand. Nonetheless, this confirms that Santiago Diaz is the son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BSXJ-7?i=633&wc=3P91-D…

Case closed. Thank you, to Sarod77, for cracking that one open for us!

Santiago Diaz de Leon and Juana de Espitia had five children that I know of, all born on Encinillas in Sierra de Pinos:

1. Juan Diaz de Leon Espitia, m1. Petronila Muñoz de Pineda, 20 Mar 1700; m2. Ana Manuela Campos, 7 Jul 1740, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
2. Maria de Espitia Diaz, m. Domingo Gomez Castro, 23 Apr 1703, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
3. Nicolasa Diaz Espitia, b. 21 Jan 1687, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
4. Joseph Diaz de Leon Cuenca, b. 10 Apr 1689; m. Maria del Castillo Martin, 02 May 1713, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
5. Sebastiana Diaz Espitia, b. 9 Apr 1692, San Matias, Pinos, Zac; m. Miguel Monterrubio Olaldes, 9 Nov 1718, Nra Sra de Belen, Asientos, Ags.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Another mystery has been María de la Encarnación Díaz de León, a resident on Rancho de Las Letras, in Sierra de Pinos. She never married, but she had at least three illegitimate children, born on Letras between 1743 and 1759:

1. Maria Josefa Diaz de Leon, b. 1743, m. Joseph Manuel Santoyo Orzua, 3 Oct 1766, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
2. Antonia Josefa Diaz de Leon, b. 1748, m. Vicente Diaz de Leon Lopez, im. 16 Sep 1769, San Matias, Pinos, Zac.
3. Joseph Maria Diaz de Leon, b. 28 Oct 1759, San Matias, Pinos, Zac; m. Maria Guadalupe Delgado Perez, 15 Feb 1790, Inmaculada Concepcion, Cienega de Mata, Ojuelos, Jal.

Her pedigree is revealed in the 16 Sep 1769 dispensation for her daughter, Antonia Josefa Diaz’s marriage to Vicente Diaz de Leon, son of Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Dolores Lopez de la Cerda: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6LSD-WP?i=196&wc=12512…

The bride and groom were at 3 & 4 degrees of consanguinity, his father and her grandfather, both named Joseph Diaz, being 1st-cousins. The groom’s father was son of Joseph Diaz and Antonia Delgadillo, and grandson of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor. We now have the name of Encarnacion Diaz’s father, which is Joseph Diaz (“El Viejo”), whose father would be a son of Juan Diaz de Leon and Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor, but which son?

The answer came while looking through the San Matias, Pinos confirmations: I found María de la Encarnación, hija de Joseph Diaz and Catalina de Islas, confirmed on 19 Jul 1753: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BKWR-S?i=182&wc=3PS3-H…

¡GOL! This Joseph Diaz was son of Jacinto Diaz de Leon and Sebastiana Gil, and Catalina de Islas was daughter of Nicolas de Dios Islas and Josefa Delgadillo, of Nochistlan, Zac. This is the missing piece to the puzzle, now we have the full tree:

Juan Diaz de Leon cc Jacinta Martin de Sotomayor
Joseph Diaz- 1-Jacinto Diaz
Joseph Diaz ”El Mozo”- 2-Joseph Diaz “El Viejo”
Vicente Diaz-3-Encarnacion Diaz
- - - - - - - -4-Antonia Josefa Diaz

I should mention, that the groom’s parents, Joseph Diaz de Leon and Maria Dolores Lopez de la Cerda, were dispensed at 3 degrees, because their grandmothers were sisters (Jacinta Martinez de Sotomayor and Maria de Martinez de Islas de Sotomayor, who were daughters of Andres Martin Camacho de Sotomayor and Maria de Isla).

The brides parents were also dispensed, at 4 degrees, because their great-grandmothers, were sisters (Maria de Isla and Magdalena de Lavezaris, daughters of Benito de la Isla).

There was another Maria de la Encarnacion, who lived on Letras and who had an hijo natural named Esteban Diaz de Leon, who married Nicolasa Becerra on 13 Sep 1733, in Pinos. I don’t know if this is the same Maria de la Encarnacion, since this one is never given a surname, and would’ve given birth to Esteban around 1710, some 30 years before the birth of the next child, and 49 years before the birth of the last. Improbable.

Saludos!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Thanks Manny for all the information. I am new to Nuestros Ranchos and it has been a longtime that I wanted to answer to this post. I am searching all the members of the Díaz de León family. Andrés/Santiago did cost me some problem also.
There is another Díaz de León that is causing me problem: Agustina Díaz de León, española, that died on 20th of June of 1773 at Puesto de las Encinillas,jurisdicción del Real de Sierra de Pinos:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BM9D-B?i=61&wc=3P9B-T3…

We can also find her in the Padrones of Pinos of 1764:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BF-3358-T?i=495&cat=…

Encinillas was the living place for many years of the Díaz de León Family and she is mentioned next to the families of Francisco Gordiano and Andrés Díaz de León. That might suggest a link with two brothers. I believe that she could have been a daughter of Andrés Díaz de León and Dionisia Durón-Gutiérrez. She is mentioned as viuda when she passed away but I haven’t found any records that might correspond to her on Family search. Do you have any clue on this person?

Thanks!

Tristán

Comment

Dang, Tristan,

I just looked at your tree - you are PURO Diaz de Leon! How many times? I’m only twice, but the rest of your tree looks like my abuelo’s. Encantado conocerle, primo!

Agustina Diaz de Leon - I haven’t connected her yet. But seeing how she lives between the other children of Andres Diaz cc Dionicia Duron, I think it’s likely she’s also their child. As Rick says, they had 6 children when they married, one, being Geronimo Roman, and I only count four, that I have found, who were born before 1728. Agustina could be the 5th, though it’d still be good to find something to verify it. I’ll keep my eyes open. Here she is in the 1765 padron, if you don’t already have it (right image, right column):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-BKW3-Z?i=232&wc=MC76-R…

Phelipe Moran drops off the map, so I wonder if he and Agustina were ever married? I know Paula’s marriage record says she was legitimate, but those aren’t always accurate. Do you have anything on their other children?

Thanks, and great work!
Manny Diez Hermosillo

Comment

Manny,
Juan Díaz de León is 11 times my ancestor ! Spanish families were much connected during this time as you know. Concerning Andrés Díaz de León and Dionisia’s children, I was able to identify 6 children for the moment:

- Andrés Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : Born around 1716 in Asientos and died on 20th of December of 1774 in Palo Alto, jurisdiction of Ciénega de Rincón. He was married to María Estefanía Carrillo y Díaz de León.

- Elena Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : Born around 1718 and died on 6th of November of 1772 in Encinillas, jurisdiction of Pinos. She had an illegitimate child with Jacinto Díaz de León y de Islas, her cousin. They made a dispensation but I think that the marriage never occurred.

- Francisco Gordiano Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : Born around 1722 in Asientos and died on 30th of May of 1805 in Asientos. He was married to Margarita Micaela Carrillo de Sandi y de Salcedo.

- Cacilda Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : Born around 1723 in Asientos and died on 10th of November of 1780 in Encinos, jurisdiction of Sierra de Pinos. She was married to Matías de Castañeda y de Carvajal.

- Antonio Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : He died on 11th of November of 1752 in Encinillas, jurisdiction of Pinos.

- Nicolasa Díaz de León y Durón-Gutiérrez : She was married to Antonio Díaz Tirado y de Castañeda.

I think that, Antonio and Nicolasa could have been born after 1728. However I didn’t search for her IM for the moment to know her age.

PS : I thought that Geronimo Roman was a previous husband that Dionisia had. I guess that I didn’t read correctly the dispensa for Andrés and Dionisia. Mi español no es tan bueno y no es muy fácil leer actas del siglo 18 jaja

Tristán

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2016-02-15 01:08 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Manny,

Thanks for posting the information. Some members of Antonia Delgadillos family sometimes used Delgado instead of Delgadillo. Do you know if Antonia Delgadillos family is related to the Delgados that you commented about recently?

Thanks again primo,

Rick A. Ricci

Published by dcalonso – Sun, 2016-02-14 22:46 | Permalink

Comment

Manny,

This is great work. Juan Diaz de Leon is my ancestor too. I wish I knew something to add, but I dont. I was curious though about the witnesses and other property owners in 1604, Diego Camacho and Juliana de Sotomayor and if you think they're related to the Martin Camacho/Martn de Sotomayor family.

Danny C. Alonso

Genealogy Research

New Member

Published by rian –

¡Saludos a todos!

I am very excited to be joining this group. I live in California, USA, and I trace my ancestry back to the early Mexican settlers who came to California between 1769 and 1848. I am currently investigating my family's lines in Ahualulco, Jalisco.

Some of the families I am researching are: VÁSQUEZ, GÓMEZ, CORONA, DE ARAIZA, CORTÉS, DE YSASI/ISSASI, TIZNADO, ALVARÉZ, "CASTELO," RODRÍGUEZ, PATRÓN, DE LEÓN, DE HARO, PACHECO, DEL VALLE, DE SOTO, DE ÁVILA, ESPINOSA, LUGO.

I look forward to collaborating with everyone!

Atentamente,

- Rian R. (https://nuestrosranchos.org/rian)

Published by rian – Wed, 2025-11-12 18:15 | Permalink

Comment

Hola, Rick,

He pasado mucho tiempo investigando la historia de los huérfanos Lorenzana. ¿Has leído “California’s Littlest Settlers: Journey to the End of the World” por Salomé Hernández? Se publica en línea aquí.

Soy un descendiente Lorenzana y igual mi familia es de Watsonville.

¡Saludos!

R.

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2025-09-12 20:10 | Permalink

Comment

Obispo Francisco Antonio Lorenzana dejo una herencia a los hijos de una señora(ita).   Despues dijeron que se Los hijos de dejo a unos huerfanos.  Deacendientes de el se vinieron a Watsonville y Ventura California.  Yo conozco un descendiente que vive en Camarillo 

Genealogy Research

Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia

Published by SGarzaAceves –

Good day. 

I hope everyone is well. I am interested in buying a set of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. 

Does anyone know where one can be found. 

Best regards,

Sandra

Published by R.A.Ricci – Tue, 2025-11-11 18:39 | Permalink

Comment

A new set, still in its box, may be sold at auction on eBay in January.  I don’t think it will be cheap.  

Published by mralvarez314 – Tue, 2025-10-21 21:23 | Permalink

Comment

So, my understanding is that it's not so easy to acquire a complete set of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia anymore. Hopefully you're successful.

In the mean time, try locating a set at a nearby library (Worldcat).

Also, Retoños was first published about 15 years ago or so, and since then numerous researchers here on Nuestros Ranchos, on Ancestry, on FamilySearch and on Wikitree have documented many of the families that were written about by Mariano González-Leal and his collaborators. Consider posting your brick wall ancestors here, or your questions, and I am positive the amazing Nuestros Ranchos community will gladly lend a hand.

Lots of luck to you.

Genealogy Research

Need translation

Published by meef98367 –

I need help reading some of the names in this marriage from Chihuahua, Mexico, Civil Registrations, 29 dic 1879 for Bernardo Carmona and Ma. Juana Ocon.

I can't make out the name of the groom's grandfather --Pan--?--Carmona.

I also can't make out the name of the bride's paternal grandmother ---Ma ? Munoz ?

What is the bride's paternal grandmother ---Ma. Pla.(?) Munos (?)
I looks like only her maternal grandmother is listed --Antonia Errera (?)

It is a long record that takes up two and a half pages in the marriage volume. I am so mixed up now.

Thank you in advance for your help

Emilie
Port Orchard, WA

Published by MunozLine – Sun, 2025-11-09 06:14 | Permalink

Comment

I have seen "MA" used for mostly Maria, but also used for Mariana when transferred probably by LDS.

I also found one that was transcribed to Maxima, the MA may have looked like an MX on that one, but it turned out to be Mariana with cross referencing.

Published by Ruben Hdez – Sat, 2018-01-06 15:10 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Emilie.

Bernardo and Juana got married by church in "La Villa de Santa Rosalia" on Jan 09 1880:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-DCD

Bernardo (20). Parents: Juan J. Carmona and Manuela Reyes.

Juana (17). Parents: Anastasio Ocon and Ricarda Burrola.

Anastasio and Ricarda got married in the same place on Jan 13 1862:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68PS-HD4

Anastasio (20). Parents: Pedro Ocon and Placida Muñoz.

Ricarda (16). Parents: Salome Burrola and Mauricia Morales.

Is there a link to the document you are citing you could provide? I'll gladly help with the names of Bernardo's grandparents.

Comment

baratero (sorry, I don't know your name).

Here is the link: https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/60442/004865638_01149?pid=3413838&…

thanks so much,

Emilie

Port Orchard, WA

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of baratero69@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 2:10 PM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Marriage of Bernardo and Juana

Hello Emilie. Bernardo and Juana got married by church in "La Villa de Santa
Rosalia" on Jan 09 1880:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.f… Bernardo (20).
Parents: Juan J. Carmona and Manuela Reyes. Juana (17). Parents: Anastasio
Ocon and Ricarda Burrola. Anastasio and Ricarda got married in the same place
on Jan 13 1862: https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.f…
Anastasio (20). Parents: *Pedro Ocon* and *Placida Muñoz*. Ricarda (16).
Parents: *Salome Burrola* and *Mauricia Morales*. Is there a link to the
document you are citing you could provide? I'll gladly help with the names of
Bernardo's grandparents.

Comment

Hi Emilie.

My name is Ruben (It is displayed on your post at NR site. "Submitted by ...")

I do not have an Ancestry subscription.

If you can provide the book's details (City, description: e.g. "Libro de copias de actas de matrimonio de ...", dates range of records in the book, etc., usually the information is on the cover or in the front page of the book) I can look for the document at FamilySearch.

Comment

Hello, Ruben,

Thanks so much. I first found the document on Ancestry because they have indexed Civil Registrations whereas Fam Search has not, Plus they have a direct link that pulls the image for one to see. but I still found it for you on Fam Search:

Enter Search on Fam Search. Then:

1.
Click on "Browse all Published Collections"
2.
Click on "Historical Record Collections"
3.
Scroll down to "Mexico, Chihuahua, Civil Registrations 1861-1997" - Browse Images
4.
Click on "Browse through 1,561,583 images"
5.
Sign in with your Fam Search Account. You might have to do this a couple of times until you can get back to where you were. I hate the way they make us do that.
6.
Click on "La Cruz"
7.
Click on "Matrimonios 1871-1950
8.
Go to Image 98 of 1903 - it will be on the left side

Thanks in advance,

Emilie

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of baratero69@hotmail.com
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2018 8:00 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Link to the document.

Hi Emilie. My name is Ruben (It is displayed on your post at NR site.
"Submitted by ...") I do not have an Ancestry subscription. If you can
provide the book's details (City, description: e.g. "Libro de copias de actas
de matrimonio de ...", dates range of records in the book, etc., usually the
information is on the cover or in the front page of the book) I can look for
the document at FamilySearch.

Comment

Hello Emilie.

The document is poorly legible. My best guess:

Paternal grandparents: Ponciano Carmona and Maria Josefa Nieto

Maternal grandparents: Gabriel Reyes (Graviel) and Maria Juana Marquez

I hope this may be of help for your search.

Comment

Thank you so much Ruben. I will see what comes up.

Emilie

________________________________
From: Research on behalf of baratero69@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2018 7:56 AM
To: research@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Bernardo's grandparents

Hello Emilie. The document is poorly legible. My best guess: Paternal
grandparents: Ponciano Carmona and Maria Josefa Nieto Maternal grandparents:
Gabriel Reyes (Graviel) and Maria Juana Marquez I hope this may be of help
for your search.

Genealogy Research

Maria Ygnacia Nomelin and Jose Miguel Espinosa

Published by Gil4SC –

I've had no luck in searching the baptismal records for Purepero and Tlazazalca, Michoacan.  I have seen variations on the name Nomelin, like Lomelin, Numelin, Romelin, etc.  I have attached a copy of their marriage record.  Any insights or suggestions are appreciated.

Gilbert

Attachment Size
Jose Miguel Espinosa & Maria Ygnacia Nomelin Marriage record 1.44 MB

Published by silvernblack – Sat, 2024-11-23 11:37 | Permalink

Comment

I see that page was not "INDEXED" .... but anyway I added as a source to Miguel Espinoa individual page.

This match popped up...... it all seems to line up except Maria Ygnacia's Nomeli mother's name is Vega and not Fernandes?   Could that marriage record just be wrong and her mother's surname is really Vega???

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/merge/verify/984G-FX5/GQ1W-2ZQ

Comment

I don't think so.  I had found the other Maria Ygnacia Lomelin also. She is also married to a Miguel Espinosa. They are from Jalisco. (Jose) Miguel Espinosa is one of my 3rd great grandfathers.  He is from Purepero, Michoacan. As is the Ygnacia Nomelin (Lomelin?) listed in the marriage record.  Thank you for your help.

Comment

I finally was able to figure this out and corroborate with records. Using the 1784 Census from Purepero, Michoacan helped a lot. Turns out Maria Ygnacia Lomelin's mother is listed as a Duarte. As I went back further ancestors are listed with the last name Duarte Fernandez. So I was able to confirm Maria Ygnacia's parents as Jose Ramon Lomelin and Maria de la Cruz Duarte (Fernandez).  Thank you.

Genealogy Research

MATEO GONZÁLEZ DE RUBALCAVA(S)

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –

There were four men, all named Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava, who were born around 1625-1630, and who lived in the Teocaltiche/ Mexticacan/ Nochistlan area. I have been sorting through various documents, trying to get a hold on who these 4 persons were, and whether or not they might be the same person or persons, and I’ve developed a couple of theories which I thought I’d share here. First, a breakdown on who these men were:

Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava #1

The first Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava married Catalina Cortes de Sandoval on 21 Jun 1651, in Nochistlan; they were velados the following 1 Jun 1652. According to the dispensation of Joseph de Luna and Maria de San Juan Jimenez, Mateo #1 was the son of Antonio de Rubalcava (#1), who was the brother of Lorenzo de Rubalcava, who was the father of Agueda de Rubalcava, great-grandmother of the bride: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-D28K-Z?i=481&wc=3JW5-V…

From other records, we know that Antonio #1 and Lorenzo de Rubalcava were sons of Mateo de Rubalcava cc Geronima Morales.

This relationship is confirmed by the IM of Eugenio de Rubalcava and Maria Dolores de Lizarde, which again establishes Mateo #1 as the son of Antonio de Rubalcava #1, who was brother of Lorenzo de Rubalcava, who was father of Blas de Rubalcava: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT37-2?i=25&wc=3P92-3T…

Mateo #1 died some time before 7 Jul 1670, when his daughter, Melchora de Rubalcava, married. Also, it should be noted that his mother is never mentioned, so her identity remains unknown.

Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava #2

The second Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava married Cecilia Vasquez de Islas on 4 Feb 1658 in Nochistlán; he died 21 Jun 1710, in Nochistlan. His origins remain uncertain; the only clue I’ve seen is the dispensation of their son, Joseph Gonzalez de Rubalcava, for his marriage to Magdalena Carrillo, hija natural of Geronimo Carrillo and Magdalena Mendoza. According to this dispensa, Mateo #2 and Geronimo Carrillo were 1st-cousins, though the details of their relationship are not explained: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6K99-JY?cc=1874591&wc=…

Geronimo Carrillo might be the same who was married to Maria Lozano Sandoval, and who died and was buried on 8 Mar 1693 in Nochistlan. Likewise, he might be the same Geronimo, son of Diego Carrillo and Maria Lopez, who was confirmed 29 Dec 1666 in Teocaltiche: (left) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-QT5Y-7?i=46&wc=SS5B-7M… and who was living in their household in the 1681 Teocaltiche padron: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89K2-Y8HH?i=475&cat=23…

If this is the case, then Geronimo’s relationship to Mateo #2 could be through his mother, Maria Lopez de Rubalcava, who was the daughter of Mateo de Rubalcava cc Geronima Morales; since Mateo #2 was his 1st-cousin, then he would also be their grandson. The relationship would look like this:

Tronco: Mateo de Rubalcava cc Geronima Morales
Maria Lopez-1- ?
Geronimo Carrillo-2-Mateo de Rubalcava #2
Magdalena Carrillo-3-Joseph de Rubalcava

Note: it is clear that Mateo #1 and Mateo #2 are NOT the same person, since they were married to different women and having children at the same time, and also, the former died at least 40 years before the latter.

Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava #3

The 3rd Mateo Gonzalez de Rubalcava was the son of the above-mentioned Lorenzo de Rubalcava and Catalina Gonzalez, confirmed on 16 May 1634 in Teocaltiche: (right) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939L-QT5Y-9?cc=1874591&wc=3…

Published by Don Animas – Sat, 2025-10-25 19:40 | Permalink

Comment

#2 and #3 are the same. The Mateo de Ruvalcaba signatures from both documents below match.

 11 Apr 1678. Jose Delgadillo (Diego Delgadillo & Petrona de Islas) sobrino de Mateo de Ruvalcaba. 

 10 Feb 1686. Mateo de Ruvalcaba vecino y casado, tío de la pretensa Leonor de Ortiz (Juan de Ruvalcaba & Catalina de Sena).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TH55-L?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 64 of 662; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-THR6-Z?cc=1804458&wc=3P9N-DP8%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C154094601 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Información matrimonial 1677-1707 > image 392 of 662; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).


 

Published by Don Animas – Wed, 2025-09-24 16:23 | Permalink

Comment

"he could easily have married Leonor de Lizardi after the death of his first wife (this timeline would also allow Leonor de Lizardi to be the same who was married to Juan de Sepulveda)." 

On 3 Nov 1660 in Mexticacan, the padrinos Antonio de Ruvalcaba y Josefa de Sepulveda su e…nada (?). Not sure what that word is, but likely some relationship meaning the same Leonor de Lizalde married Juan de Sepulveda and then married Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-G1NG-4?cc=1804458&wc=3P98-… : 13 December 2021), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Bautismos de hijos legítimos 1627-1686 > image 159 of 565; paróquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

Comment

Don,  I believe you are correct, and the following records seem to indicate this to be the case:

The 23 Feb 1682 burial record of Antonio Rubalcava is listed in Nochistlan parish records. The record noted he was the widow of Leonor de Lizaldi.  The record is noted with the heading for the pueblo of Mesticacan,  and references that he was from the vecino of Teocaltiche and the estate of Agua Blanco, he was noted as over 70 years of age. The only known child noted in a separate record is Juana de Lizalde/Lisalde who is mentioned in the Nochistlan parish 1678 marriage information records, in which Juana is noted as 14 years of age (born about 1664).  She was an orphan child (moca huerfana), but listed as raised by Antonio Rubalcava and Leonor Lisalde.  Leonor was buried 1 year later (3 Dec 1679), noted in Lagos de Moreno parish records.  In the 1678 marriage record, a Josepha Sepulveda (wife of Pedro Ulloa) and Lucas Sepulveda (Clergy) are also mentioned.

1682 Burial record of Antonio Rubalcava:  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT9S?cc=1804458

1678 Marriage information record for Juana de Lizalde/Nicolas de Armas: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-THPY-6?cc=1804458

Lee

Comment

Great find, Don Animas! It says “fueron padrinos Antonio de Robalcaba y Josepha de Sepulveda su entenada” - his step-daughter! 

Saludos!

Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by Lee Ingram – Sun, 2025-07-13 09:14 | Permalink

Comment

All,

One last link for Matheo in the Libros de Gobierno records.   This one dated 12 May 1677. 

This one is in Teocaltiche, and mentions Antonio Robalcava.  Also involving caballerias within the jurisdiction of Teocaltiche.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 4

Lee

Published by Don Animas – Sat, 2025-07-12 13:59 | Permalink

Comment

Moco(a) means son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of someone of the same name right?

So Juana de Ruvalcaba, daughter of Mateo de Rucalcaba and Catalina Cortes (de Moscoso y Sandoval), could be named after her grandmother Juana de Isla (Lozano) wife of Antonio de Ruvalcaba.

 México, Zacatecas, registros parroquiales, 1605-1980," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-TT19?cc=1804458&wc=MC7X-DM9%3A147337401%2C147337402%2C153551201 : 21 May 2014), Nochistlán > Nochistlán > Entierros 1667-1738 > image 45 of 400; parroquias Católicas, Zacatecas (Catholic Church parishes, Zacatecas).

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Sat, 2025-07-12 11:35 | Permalink

Comment

Great find, Lee, thanks for sharing. And you’re right, this is probably the Mateo de Rubalcava who was son of Lorenzo de Rubalcava and married to Cecilia de Isla. This document is regarding a land grant, and for a lot of land: 2 sitios de ganado mayor/menor, each with 4 caballerias de tierra. But what’s interesting is his son, Juan de Rubalcava, appearing on his behalf and acting in his name, because 1) I don’t have any record of Mateo de Rubalcava cc Cecilia de Isla having a son named Juan, and 2) they married in Feb 1658, so any legitimate child they had would only be 12 years old in 1671. For a young man to legally represent his father, I don’t know what age he’d have to be, but at that time, 25 was the age of majority, in which case, Juan de Rubalcava could have been born as early as 1646. Cecilia was born in 1641 and could not be his mother. 
So, there is some genealogical information in this land title: before marrying Cecilia de Isla, in addition to an hija natural named Catalina Gonzalez, Mateo de Rubalcava had a son named Juan, born 1646-1650.

Thanks again for sharing!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by Lee Ingram – Sat, 2025-07-12 10:37 | Permalink

Comment

Matheo Rubalcava is again mentioned in the Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno records on 23 May 1676. Likely the same Matheo Rubalcava mentioned in the 1671 record that was posted earlier. He is still involved in Goverment affairs. No mention of Juan Rubalcava in this record, and this record mentions only Nochistlan, which is under Juchipila Jurisidiction. Jose Lopez Ramirez and Lazaro Guerrero are also mentioned.  Not sure what this record is about, but it does mention a cofradia and also indicates that Matheo is still a presence in this area in 1676.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 2

Again mentioned in 3 October 1676 records which involved 4 caballerias, I believe in Mexticacan, and noted in Juchipila Jurisdication. Bernadino de Yslas is also mentioned.

Zacatecas Libros de Govierno Link 3

Lee

Published by Lee Ingram – Fri, 2025-07-11 18:09 | Permalink

Comment

Manny,

Nice summation of the many older Matheo's.   The link below is from the 1671 Zacatacas Libros de Gobierno (via Family Search). This Matheo is not the one who died before July of 1670, as this image (87 of 591) notes Matheo and Juan Rubalcava involved in this transaction when dated on 14 May 1671. It appears they were involved in some caballerias in Nochistlan and/or Aguascalientes jurisdictions.  Not sure how much help this is, since no genealogical information can be ascertained, but it does provide locations as to where they were located in the 1670's.  To be living in 1671 and in positions of authority, these two Rubalcava's were likely older, which lines up with those folks that have been so nicely summed up by you.  Not sure which one it could be, but could add more supporting info.

Zacatecas Libros de Gobierno Link

Lee

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Fri, 2025-07-11 15:13 | Permalink

Comment

Here’s a dispensation that confirms my theory that Mateo de Rubalcava cc Cecilia de Islas was the son of Lorenzo de Rubalcava:

Joseph Maria Orozco cc Catalina Gonzalez, 6 Apr 1709, Nochistlan: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-6RSF-52?cc=1874591&wc=…

The groom was son of Diego Orozco Aguero and Maria Carrillo, of Teocaltiche, and the bride was Mulata Libre, of unknown parents, but her birth father was identified as Manuel de Rubalcava Islas. They were at 4 degrees of consanguinity, being great-grandchildren of siblings, she of Lorenzo de Rubalcava, and he, of Josefa Bautista de Rubalcava (actually, his great-grandmother was Maria Lopez aka de Rubalcava, from whom the Carrillo de Sandi descend, but the relationship is the same). Here’s the parentesco given:

Lorenzo Rubalcava-1-Josepha Bautista (Maria Lopez)
Mateo Rubalcava-2-Nicolas Carrillo
Manuel Rubalcava-3-Maria Carrillo
Catalina Gonzalez-4-Jose Maria Orozco

Bada-bing! Mystery solved!

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by Don Animas – Tue, 2025-07-08 13:29 | Permalink

Comment

What many have probably already noticed, but I am not sure whether anyone has stated is that close relatives tend to be listed close together in confirmations, and since close relatives often times live close to each other they are also listed next to each other in padrones.

 

My guess is that the Magdalena Lozano viuda and the Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo are in-laws. 

 

1681 Teocaltiche padrones

 

  • Marcos Yanez
  • Magdalena Lozano su mujer
  • Magdalena Lozano viuda

 

  • Sebastian de Campos mestizo
  • …….

 

  • Antonio de Ruvalcaba viudo
  • Juan de Ruvalcaba mestizo 


 

Comment

You’re welcome, Rick, and thank you!

And Don Animas, you are absolutely correct, thank you for pointing that out! Magdalena Lozano is undoubtedly the widow of Antonio Bastidas, both mentioned in this Tierras y Aguas document from 2 Nov 1630, “Parecio Joana navarro viuda de benito de ysla vezina deste valle a quien doy fee conozco y dijo que hacia e hiço gracia y donacion mera y irrevocable a antonio bastidas vezino del dicho valle de medio çitio de estancia de ganado menor y una caballeria de tierra que tiene en el rio del pueblo de mechoacanejo que es donde al presente vive llamada de tepusco y el de la dicha media estancia para el rio arriva la qual dicha donacion le hace por ser el dicho antonio bastidas marido y conjunta persona de madalena loçano nieta de la susodicha de quien la dicha Juana navarro ha rrecivido muchas y muy buenas obras y servicios que le ha hecho”. 
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6S9Q-4?i=198&cat=…

That was the same day that Juana Navarro donated the other half of said sitio to Antonio Gonzalez de Rubalcava, which explains why their homes are grouped together in the 1681 padron: this is obviously the estancia called Tepusco.

On 14 Jan 1686, Magdalena Lozano, viuda de Antonio Bastidas, would donate a quarter part of the same sitio to Sebastian Campos (also named in the 1681 padron). In that document, she says that the quarter part is of “the sitio that today belongs to Juan de Rubalcava”; would he be the same Juan de Rubalcava mestizo mentioned in the 1681 padron, and presumed son of Antonio de Rubalcava? In which case, this would suggest that Antonio de Rubalcava had already died, and can very well be the one who was buried on 23 Feb 1682. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6S97-3?cat=278176…

Also, I was looking at the burial record of Leonor de Lizalde cc Antto Rubalcava: she died at the Labor de trigo del Bachiller Lucas de Sepulveda: could this be her son, confirming that she is the same who was married to Juan de Sepulveda?

Things to ponder.

Thanks again for your input!
Manny Díez Hermosillo 

Genealogy Research

Antonio Cornejo Riojano

Published by ERojano27 –

Hello to everyone,

I have been researching Antonio Cornejo Riojano with the purpose to discover more information and get a better picture of this person, who several of us here descend from. I have received a lot of assistance in the past from Rick and Dibleet, who found his birth registration from 1658, (year listed as his birth but had not been able to find before) to an Alonso Cornejo and Francisca de Acosta. 

Ozumba. Religious Legitimation Records 1650–1664 | San Pedro Atzompa. Religious Marriage Records April 1662–February 1666

 

I will use this post to add any information I come across about Antonio, please feel free to add anything, so that we can uncover more information about him together.

I came across this record below of Antonio Cornejo today, which I think is very fascinating. Aside from the historical information it contains about landowners near the Jalos region in Jalisco, Antonio is mentioned several times throughout this source. The land record with "Antonio Cornejo Roxano" images starting from 393 - 396 are what really drew my attention. On Page 396, at the bottom portion of the page, it has his actual signature on the document, and he signs it "Antonio Cornejo Rojano." This is the first time I had seen this spelling, which is the way my surname is spelled, usually it was spelled Riojano or Roxano in other documents and having him sign it that way is so cool.

Guadalajara. Land Records 1770

 

Thank you all,

Edward


 

 

Published by ERojano27 – Wed, 2025-10-29 17:00 | Permalink

Comment

I am just starting to scan through this record of Guadalajara. Land Records 1770 of which contains 610 images in total. Antonio Cornejo is in so many pages of this album. This will take a while to go through. I did locate another page with his signature, which is below.

Guadalajara. Land Records 1770

 

The below link, which is all part of the same Guadalajara. Land Records 1770, mentions Manuel Cornejo, his son and Antonio Cornejo, images 587 - 591. Image 591 has a map of land belonging to Cornejo.

Guadalajara. Land Records 1770

Thank you, 

Edward

Genealogy Research

Where are these Estancias and Ranchos today?

Published by Travis –

Hello!

I'm trying to located modern names and sites of early ranchos and haciendas connected to family. Does anyone know about the following?

Los Jacales/Los Xacales (Barrio de los Jacales): Los Jacales located immediately southwest of Lagos, by San Pablo de Nazas? or Jacales, by Chipinque, located north of Lagos on the Camino de Escondida?

El Rancho de Nasas: San Pablo de Nazas, southwest of Lagos, adjacent to Los Jacales?

La Estancia de Domingo de Espinosa: south of Lagos at Loma de Espinosa?

Los Velozes (El Rancho de Pedro de Beloso/Veloso c1615-1672): Loma de Velozes?

La Hacienda de Juan Días Toribio (c1619-1669)?

El Rancho de Bartolomé de Mesquita/Amezquita (c1595-aft1669)?

Thank you,

Travis

History, Culture and General Discussion

RA Ricci

Published by makas_nc –

Does anyone have Rick Ricci's current email address?

Joseph Puentes 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sat, 2025-11-01 23:20 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sat, 2025-11-01 23:20 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Joseph,

I sent you an email message with my new email, and an explanation of the issues with the old email.   Please read it and contact me when you can.

Rick A. Ricci

Announcements and Events

Hernando de Haro hijo de Juan Miramontes - Tlaltenango

Published by Claudia_Reynoso –

Hi all--

I am looking for documentation on Jose Hernando de Haro, who was the son of Juan Miramontes. Hernando was married to Francisca Flores de la Torre (hija de CAP Luis Flores de la Torre and unknoown female) sometime in the last quarter of 1600s.

If you have any sources for Hernando de Haro, please advise. Thanks!

Claudia
www.guadalajaradispensas.com

Published by cavilah – Thu, 2025-10-30 21:07 | Permalink

Comment

According to my research, which could be faulty, Francisca Flores de la Torre was my 10th ggaunt (Her sister, Angela, was my 10th gg.), but she was married to Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña.

Parents

Capitán Diego Fuentes Flores y Pérez de la Torre 1539-1616

Angela María Pacheco Rodríguez y Temiño de Velasco y Carbajal 1542--

Spouse

Juan Cristóbal Ramírez de la Campaña 1555-

Published by PappyRod – Sat, 2012-08-18 01:07 | Permalink

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Claudia,
I'm not sure it's the same Hernando b:abt 1610, but I have him in my tree as a brother to Lorenzo de Miramontes y Haro (my 8th GGF). They were sons of Hernando de Haro Miramontes and Cecilia Lopez, m:abt 1629. The elder Hernando was the son of Juan Miramontes and Maria Haro y Saucedo.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-L4Q

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SYVJ-3DS

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLZH-M74

Cecilia Lopez remarried on 25Oct1644 to Felipe Diaz de Santiago in Tlaltenango, Zacatacas.

Hope this was of some help.
Roy

Comment

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Claudia, revisando los archivos de Nuestros Ranchos hice este pequeño resumen de lo que estas buscando:

El Hernando de Haro casado con Francisca de la Torre mas bien fue hijo de Hernando de Haro Miramontes y Cecilia Lopez y por consiguiente nieto de Juan de Miramontes y Maria Rodriguez de Haro y Saucedo y bisnieto de Francisco de Miramontes y Maria de Rivera.

Esperemos que este en lo correcto

Published by juan francisco… – Fri, 2012-08-17 18:54 | Permalink

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Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Caludia, cuando se casan Rodrigo Sanchez Castellanos de Rodas, hijo de Manuel Sanchez Castellanos de Haro y Josefa de Rodas el 1 de junio de 1684 (Dispensa matrimonial pagina 112 y Juana de Luna de Haro con 4to grado de consanguinidad, ponen a Tomasina de Haro (Tomasina de Saucedo) como prima hermana de Hernando de Haro.

Segun recuerdo Hernando de Haro era hijo de Juan de Miramontes y Maria de Haro y Saucedo, lo cual me parece extraño, ya que tuvo que haber otra mujer con apellidos Haro y Saucedo casada con un hermano de Juan de Miramontes.

He leido paginas donde incluso ponen a Heranando de Haro como hermano de Tomasina, pero la dispensa los pone como primos. No se que opinen? Si hay alguien que haya resuelto el misterio favor de decirnoslo.

Comment

Juan Francisco Sanchez Alvarez

Buscando en los archivos de Jalisco de la Biblioteca Publica del Estado de Jalisco. Ubicada en Jose Parres arias y Periferico Norte en el area de la Universidad de Guadalajara conocida como Los Belenes.

http://www.bpej.udg.mx/ra_busc3?id=2952 Heranando de Haro de Compostela
http://www.bpej.udg.mx/difunts_busc3?id=3161 Pedro Ruiz de Haro

Hay archivos interesantes sobre Juan de Miramontes, Tomas de Miramontes Haro etc.

Segun se tienes que ir personalmente.

Espero te sirva prima.

Genealogy Research

ORIGEN DE LOS LÓPEZ DE LA CRUZ DE SANTA OLALLA??!

Published by jrefugioghermosillo –

Hola prim@s,

Aquí las informaciones genealógicas del familiar y alguacil mayor del Santo Oficio, Domingo de Onís y Vela, y de su esposa, María Mancina, fechada el 11 oct 1684 en Llerena, minas de Sombrerete: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM4-J?cat=31792&…

María Mancina era de Tlaltenango y bisnieta de Miguel Rivera y Leonor Ortiz, de Guadalajara, esta última hija de Francisco López de la Cruz y Alfonsina de la Paz, naturales de Santa Olalla y vecinos de Guadalajara. Por eso se incluye la probanza de la familia López de la Cruz Haedo (o Ahedo), hecha en Toledo y en Vizcaya en 1616, y en nombre de los hermanos Diego, Alonso, Lorenzo, y Cristóbal López de la Cruz Haedo, y en nombre de Cristóbal López de la Cruz Haedo su sobrino, hijo de su hermano Francisco, ya difunto. Los cinco hermanos eran hijos de Juan de la Cruz, vecino de Santa Olalla: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-W91B-D?cat=31792&…

Se describe cómo su abuelo, Diego López de la Cruz Haedo, hijo de Pedro de la Cruz, señor y dueño de la casa y solar de Haedo, “que está sita en el consejo de Salla, de este valle de Salcedo en las Encartaciones de Vizcaya”, salió del dicho valle en 1522 en compañía de don Lope de Salcedo (señor de la casa de Salcedo y Aranguren) y otros hijosdalgo, para servir al emperador don Carlos V durante la Guerra de las Comunidades, y que dicho Diego López de la Cruz, durante ese tiempo, conoció y se casó con una mujer de Santa Olalla en el obispado de Toledo, donde permaneció, y fueron ellos los padres de Juan de la Cruz.

Aunque no lo dice explícitamente, se puede suponer que el susodicho Francisco López de la Cruz Ahedo, ya difunto en 1616, es el mismo que se casó con Alfonsina de la Paz y que llegó a la Nueva España en 1561. ¿Qué opinan ustedes, mis primos?

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

FRANCISCO DE MONROY
Expediente de información y licencia de pasajero a indias de Francisco de Monroy, natural y vecino de México, hijo de Luis Moreno de Monrroy y de Catalina de la Cruz, a México, con las siguientes personas: - Juana Telo y de la Cruz y Aldo, mujer, natural y vecina de México, - Fernando López de la Cruz Haedo, cuñado, natural y vecino de Toledo, hijo de Lorenzo López de la Cruz y María de Toledo (Lorenzo López fue hijo de Juan de la Cruz y presenta testigos, incluso su hermano Diego López de la Cruz Haedo. Juana Tello y Aedo de la Cruz fue su hija - se casó ella con Francisco de Monroy - hijo de su prima hermana).
https://pares.mcu.es:443/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/147507

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Thu, 2025-10-30 12:21 | Permalink

Comment

These are records relevant to Bachiller Francisco Lopez de la Cruz, son of Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Alfonsina de la Paz. He was the cura beneficiado del partido de Tlaltenango. His name is seen in various records - in the almoneda de bienes of his mother, Alfonsina de la Paz: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69X3-W?i=303&cat=…, and as a witness for records regarding his siblings: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69FV-2?i=137&cat=…

Here’s his Informaciones, found at PARES. It’s dated 1600 in Guadalajara, with witness interviews. The document is in pristine condition and is easy to read; it establishes Francisco as son of Francisco cc Alfonsina, and how they were antiguos pobladores of Guadalajara, and gente honrada y principal etc: https://pares.mcu.es:443/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/344700

This one is dated 3 Mar 1603, and he appears to be requesting compensation for being beneficiado of Tlaltenango? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-13GX-1?view=explo…

Saludos,
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mon, 2025-10-27 16:51 | Permalink

Comment

According to the probanza from 1616, the Lopez de la Cruz Haedo line would look like this:

    i.    Pedro de la Cruz, Señor de la Casa y Solar de Haedo (o Ahedo)
    ii.    Diego López de la Cruz cc ?
    iii.    Juan de la Cruz cc ?
    iv.    Francisco, Diego, Alonso, Lorenzo, Cristóbal López de la Cruz Haedo

With the information that I have, this would be Maria Mancina’s descent from Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Alfonsina de la Paz:

    i.    Juan de la Cruz cc Marina Álvarez
    ii.    Francisco López de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz
    iii.    Leonor Ortiz cc Miguel de Ribera
    iv.    Miguel de Ribera cc Catalina Gonzalez
    v.    Magdalena Ribera cc Gerónimo Mancina
    vi.    María Mancina cc Domingo de Onís y Vela

It would make sense that Francisco Lopez de la Cruz Haedo and Francisco Lopez de la Cruz cc Alfonsina de la Paz were the same person - why else would they include that probanza in the folder? But chronologically, there are some problems:

1. Francisco Lopez and Alfonsina de la Paz passed to Indies on 28 Apr 1561 with their children, Diego, Maria, and Leonor; already married and with three children, we can calculate - conservatively - that Francisco Lopez was at least 25 years-old in 1561, placing his birth before 1536. In turn, his father, Juan de la Cruz, would had to have been born before 1518 - contradicting what witnesses declared in the probanza, that Juan de la Cruz was born after his father, Diego Lopez de la Cruz, left Vizcaya in 1522.

But in the case of this probanza, as in many, the witnesses were either children or not yet born when the events described occurred (the oldest witness was 95 years-old, so he would’ve been 2 years-old in 1522), and their declarations were usually based on second-hand knowlege. So their accounts are not always 100% accurate. Maybe Diego Lopez de la Cruz was already married and had children before he left Vizcaya in 1522, and his family joined him later in Santa Olalla? We can only guess, since we yet have no documents to verify this.

2. According to the probanza, two of Juan de la Cruz’s sons were Diego and Lorenzo Lopez de la Cruz. As we’ve already established, Francisco Lopez was probably born before 1536. But when his supposed brother, Diego López de la Cruz, was a witness in 1621, he declared that he was over 46 years old (born before 1575), while his brother, Lorenzo, in the same document, said he was over 40 (born before 1581): https://pares.mcu.es:443/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/description/147507

While the ages given in these documents were clearly ballpark figures, one can always calculate that they were within ten years of the actual age. But even with that margin, at least 30 years would have passed between the births of Francisco and Diego, and 36 between those of Francisco and Lorenzo—their poor mother! Of course, this would be impossible; the only possible explanation is that Juan de la Cruz married twice, and that Francisco Lopez was the son of the first wife, and his brothers, sons of the second wife. But again, we have no documentation to verify this, and this is pure conjecture, since it's possible that Diego and Lorenzo were born much earlier than their statements suggest.

THE WIFE OF JUAN DE LA CRUZ

The name of the wife of Juan de la Cruz is not given in the probanza. When Francisco Lopez de la Cruz left Spain in April 1561, according to his entry in the libro de asientos, he was the son of Juan de la Cruz and Marina Alvarez: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSKH-Y9WV-3?i=448&cat=…

But according to this legal dispute, filed in Mexico City in March 1694, Francisco Lopez de la Cruz (cc Alfonsina de la Paz) and Diego Lopez de la Cruz (cc Bernardina de Estrada) were brothers, and sons of Juan de la Cruz and Maria Ana Vasquez, the sources were said to be the testamentos of both Francisco and Diego Lopez de la Cruz: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDN-W8MW?i=273&cat=36…

But I have doubts about the accuracy of this information, since Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Diego Lopez de la Cruz were not brothers, but father and son, as can be verified by several documents (including the 1631 limpieza of Diego’s daughter, Ana de la Paz, and that of her sons, Francisco and Geronimo Lopez de Guzman, both which are found below). 
So, regarding the name of Francisco Lopez’s mother, I’m more inclined to believe the libro de asientos from 1561, which I consider more reliable, since Francisco Lopez himself would have provided that information, while the other was done 133 years later and in Mexico City, and already shows a discrepancy regarding the relationships. Not to say that there wasn’t a Maria Ana Vasquez, since, as I’ve already pointed out, Juan de la Cruz might have married twice: Maria Ana Vasquez could have been the name of his second wife, no? Again, mere conjecture.

FRANCISCO LOPEZ DE LA CRUZ CC MARIA NÚÑEZ

Gabriel Lopez de Cruz married Ana de la Paz on 3 Feb 1608 in Guadalajara. In 1631, he was named familiar del Santo Oficio: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C7CG-Q?i=334&cat=…

Their son, Bachiller Francisco Lopez de Guzman, was named familiar that same year, and he and his brother, Geronimo, submited their informaciones: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C9NZ-J?i=112&cat=…

According to these informaciones, Gabriel Lopez was born in Santa Olalla, Toledo, and he was son of Geronimo Lopez de la Cruz and Lucia Jimenez de Guzman, and Ana de la Paz was born in Guadalajara, daughter of Diego Lopez de la Cruz and Bernardina de Estrada; Gabriel’s paternal grandparents were Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Maria Núñez, vecinos de Santa Olalla, and Ana de la Paz’s paternal grandparents were Francisco Lopez de la Cruz and Alfonsina de la Paz. One might think that their grandfathers - both named Francisco Lopez de la Cruz, and both natives of Santa Olalla - were the same person, but they weren’t: according to the testimony of Luis Moreno de Monroy (who was married to Catalina Lopez de la Paz), Gabriel Lopez and Ana de la Paz were dispensed at 3o con 4o grado de consanguinidad: if they shared a grandfather, they’d have been dispensed at 2o grado igual. He doesn’t explain the relationship, but the most likely is that Francisco Lopez cc Maria Núñez was the brother of Juan de la Cruz, who was father of Francisco Lopez cc Alfonsina de la Paz. So the two Francisco’s would have been uncle and nephew: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C7CV-G?i=342&cat=…

     Tronco: Diego Lopez de la Cruz Haedo
           Juan de la Cruz-1-Franco Lopez de la Cruz
  Franco Lopez de la Cruz-2-Geronimo Lopez de la Cruz
Diego Lopez de la Cruz-3-Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz
Ana de la Paz-4-     -     -     -     -

But again, this is conjecture - the relationship could be through another line.

ALFONSINA DE LA PAZ

According to the libro de asientos entry from her 1561 journey to Nueva España, Alfonsina de la Paz was the daughter of Benito Lopez and Catalina Lopez. “De la Paz” is a valid surname, since I’ve seen records of other persons from Santa Olalla with the same surname. Ancestry and FamilySearch are insistent about trying to convince me that her mother, Catalina Lopez, was also called Catalina Goran, who was married to Juan Benito Lopez. Checking the source of that information, I see that it’s a Geneanet tree - unsourced, of course, other than some indexes for baptism records of children born to Juan Benito Lopez and Catalina Goran, residents of Villaverde de Medina, Valladolid. Why are these two couples - who lived in different provinces - believed to be the same persons? Where are the sources for this information? In my opinion, I think it’s a case of someone with an Ancestry or FamilySearch account which “hinted” of another couple with similar names, and somebody decided to merge the two, without verifying whether they were the same persons. And now, the Ancestry and FamilySearch algorhithms are sending that information into the ether, and everyone accepts it as so, because, “if everyone says it’s so, then it nust be so.” Just a reminder: just because a file comes from Geneanet or Ancestry or FamilySearch or GEDCOM does not necessarily mean that the information within is certain: make sure that there are sources - preferably primary (!!!).

ESCUDO DE ARMAS?

According to the informaciones of Gabriel Lopez de la Cruz, his family possessed and used an escudo de armas (seen on image 379: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-C7CZ-X?i=378&cat=…). It’s unclear to whom the escudo was granted, only that it was used by Francisco Lopez de la Cruz (cc Maria Núñez) and his descendants. It’s described as, “… en campo blanco con una banda en medio, Partida en palo, y a la mano derecha dos calderas jironadas amarillas y coloradas, y al otro lado, una banda dorada atrechos y azul, y en medio, una cruz de Calatrava y orlada con cinco quinas.” Though I’m no expert when it comes to crests, the two cauldrons, checkered in yellow and red and containing snakes, are similar to those on the escudo of Santa Olalla, so this escudo was probably granted to the Santa Olalla branch of this family, rather than to the original family from Vizcaya. Francisco Lopez de la Cruz was said to have served as alcalde ordinario of Santa Olalla, and perhaps as familiar, but none of those offices would warrant an escudo; perhaps it was granted to Diego Lopez de la Cruz Haedo, for his services to the emperor? Hopefully someone with more knowlege of heraldry can some day tell us.

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mon, 2025-10-27 16:44 | Permalink

Comment

For those who descend from Miguel de Ribera and Leonor Ortiz, here is his testamento: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-696T-5?i=366&cat=… and https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69FL-3?i=136&cat=…

And here, Leonor Ortiz, on behalf of her minor children,  grants power to Geronimo Arias: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-6961-G?i=386&cat=…

And here is Geronimo Arias, acting on their behalf: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-69J6-M?i=42&cat=1…

Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Mon, 2025-10-27 16:23 | Permalink

Comment

Gracias Agustín, por registrar los datos de los testigos; estoy seguro de que serán útiles para quienes desciendan de esas personas. Y si lo leí correctamente, no pudieron encontrar el acta de bautismo de Catalina González, esposa de Miguel Ribera: según quienes realizaban las diligencias, los antiguos libros parroquiales se perdieron en una inundación y fueron arrastrados por las corrientes del río, lo que explica por qué no hay registros anteriores a 1626 en Tlaltenango (!!).
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo

Published by familias_bajio – Mon, 2025-10-27 14:25 | Permalink

Comment

Como siempre, muchas gracias por compartir estas valiosas y detalladas informaciones.

Anexo a la petición de Domingo de Onís y Vela se encuentra la información de limpieza de su esposa María Mancina que se hizo en el pueblo de Tlaltenango entre los meses de marzo y julio de 1685, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM9-3?cat=31792&….

Los testigos presentados fueron:

  1. El capitán Lucas Rubio Abarca, español, vecino del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
  2. Luis de Luna, español, vecino y natural [haber nacido] del partido de Tlaltenango, de 69 años de edad.
  3. Bartolomé de Luna, español, vecino y natural del partido de Tlaltenango, de 55 años de edad poco más o menos.
  4. Antonio de la O, español, vecino y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 70 años de edad.
  5. Juan de Moreira, mulato libre, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango y natural del pueblo de Tlaltenango, de 48 años de edad. Compadre de Jerónimo de Mancina y Magdalena de Rivera “…por haberle bautizado un hijo a este testigo…”
  6. José Morillo, mulato libre, vecino del partido de Tlaltenango, natural del pueblo de Colotlán de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 70 años de edad.
  7. Pablo de Casas, español, vecino de San Andrés del Astillero de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 67 años de edad.
  8. Nicolás Díaz, español, vecino y natural del partido de Tlaltenango, de 60 años de edad.
  9. André Martínez, español, vecino de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 60 años de edad poco más o menos.
  10. Antonio Yáñez, mestizo, vecino del partido de Tlaltenango de más tiempo de 60 años y natural de la ciudad de Zacatecas, de edad de 80 años más o menos.
  11. Diego de Cisneros, mestizo, natural de la ciudad de Zacatecas y asistente en la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango más tiempo de 65 años, de 87 años de edad, poco más o menos.
  12. Nicolás Carrillo, español, natural de la villa de Jerez de la jurisdicción de Tlaltenango, de 54 años de edad poco más o menos.

También contiene copias de los expedientes de bautismo de María de Mancina: Tlaltenango, 25 de mayo de 1657, padrino Julián Sánchez de la Madriz; y de su madre Magdalena de Rivera: Tlaltenango, 25 de junio [julio] 1632, padrinos Lorenzo de Miramontes y Catalina González, su mujer, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSD2-WSM9-J?cat=31792&i=716&lang=es

Genealogy Research

Más información sobre los Bracamonte de Compostela de Indias (Nayarit)

Published by ssales1984 –

Estimados colegas,

Hoy de casualidad busqué en PARES información sobre Compostela de Indias, hoy Nayarit y ¡vaya si tuve suerte! Este documento nos ayuda a trazar varios hilos de la historia de Compostela de Indias, incluyendo a varios de los alcaldes del sigo XVII, que tan difícil ha sido de desentrañar. 

Encontré la confirmación de oficio de D. Sebastián de Bracamonte y Ovalle como escribano público de la ciudad de Compostela en 1696-1697. El primer testigo fue el Cap. D. Diego Dávalos y Ulibarri, hermano del primer Conde de Miravalle (imagen 129); nos da la edad del testigo de 36 años y por lo tanto nacido alrededor de 1661. 

Empezando en la imagen 125, https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/show/344451 se establece la ascendencia de D. Sebastián de Bracamonte, explicada en la imagen 128, donde se nota que es hijo de D. Nicolás de Bracamonte y a Luisa de Ovalle y Jácome. Dichos padres fueron originarios de Guadalajara, Nueva Galicia (hoy Jalisco). Tambien se afirma en la imagen 135 que don Nicolás de Bracamonte descendió de un Encomendero en Nueva Galicia. El segundo testigo Sgto. Diego de Tovar y Avena, casó con prima segunda.

Abuelos paternos: D. Fernando de Bracamente y Alvarado; y Catalina de Grijalva y Zepeda, también ambos naturales de Guadalajara (Nueva Galicia, hoy Jalisco). 

Abuelos maternos: D. Jacome Antonio, originario del señorío de Génova, aunque la ciudad parece que dice Utre, no la he podido localizar.  Abuela materna: Maria de Ovalle, originaria de Compostela. 

En la imagen 131, hay muchas filiaciones, algunas de personas que me son familiares y otras que no conozco.  Pero aquí las enumero:

  • Nicolás de Bracamente (padre) – Alcalde Ordinario de Compostela (dos veces)
  • Antonio Jácome (tío materno) – Alférez Real y Alcalde Ordinario de Compostela
  • Joseph del Valle (primo hermano materno)– Alcalde Ordinario
  • Bernabé Jácome Indux [sic.?] (primo hermano) – Alcalde Ordinario de Compostela
  • Cap. Francisco del Valle – Alférez Real de Compostela
  • Pedro Rodríguez Gutiérrez – Cura Beneficiado del Valle de Banderas
  • Pedro Dávalos y Bracamonte (padre del testigo y del Conde de Miravalle)– Alcalde Ordinario de Compostela
  • Alonso Dávalos y Bracamonte – 1er Conde de Miravalle
  • Dr. D. Pedro Dávalos y de la Cueva – Cura de la parroquia de Sta. Catarina Mártir en la ciudad de México, y anteriormente Cura de San Juan del Río, actualmente Magistral y Lector de la Iglesia (Catedral?) Metropolitana de México. 

Preguntas que me surgen:

  1. El apellido Alvarado de D. Fernando, abuelo paterno de D. Sebastián, estará ligado al Adelantado?
  2. El apellido Jácome será apellido (cosa que parece probable) por portarlo la madre Luisa de Ovalle y Jácome o el primer nombre del abuelo materno? Dónde será la ciudad de Utre en Génova (Italia?).
  3. Un primo en segundo grado creo que quiere decir, que los bisabuelos son hermanos, correcto? En la imagen 134, se dice que Nicolás de Bracamonte (padre de D. Sebastián) fue primo hermano de D. Pedro Dávalos y Bracamonte. Por lo tanto, el padre de D. Nicolás y la madre de D. Pedro eran hermanos.  Por lo tanto, Fernando de Bracamonte y Alvarado  y Da. Leonor de Bracamonte serían hermanos, hijos de Álvaro de Bracamonte (ca. 1550)  Pero el segundo apellido de Alvarado puede significar que las madres eran distintas, pues de la madre de Leonor fue Francisca Arias. Claro que hay debate sobre si hubo una o dos Leonor de Bracamonte (algo a lo que no quiero meterme ahorita aquí). 

 

Es todo por ahora.  Un saludo cordial!

 

Sergio Salés

Published by ssales1984 – Sun, 2025-10-19 14:09 | Permalink

Comment

Un saludo breve, colegas,

Siguiendo el documento de la Confirmacion de Oficio de Escribano Real a Sebastián de Bracamonte, escrito en 1697, el último testigo, de 70 años de edad (o sea nacido por 1627), afirmó lo siguiente: "Y que dho Don fernando [de Bracamonte] fue alcalde mayor en diferentes partes y que uno de sus abuelos o bisabuelos qe. no se acuerda, sí se nombraba Alvaro de Bracamonte, tuvo encomienda de Yndios en este Rno."

Esto nos da evidencia bastante circunstancial que los Bracamonte de Compostela, incluyendo el Conde de Miravalle, fueron desendientes directos de D. Alvaro de Bracamonte, casado con Francisca Arias, hija de Pedro Ruiz de Haro y de Leonor Arias Gómez.

Buscando más información sobre esto encontré un tesoro en la Guía del Archivo Moctezuma Miravalle chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/libros/guia_archivo/286_04_05_legajos.pdf

y más específicamente la genealogía del primer conde de Miravalle (p. 5), y la del Condando de Moctezuma (p. 33)

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://historicas.unam.mx/publicaciones/publicadigital/libros/guia_arc…

¡Ahora, a buscar!

Un saludo,

 

Sergio Salés


 

Genealogy Research

Guafucar or Huejucar

Published by ibaca –

"Valle de Guafucar partida de Mectabasco" is the same as Huejucar, Calvillo or is this a separate town in Zacatecas???? Thank you for any information.

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2011-10-20 15:25 | Permalink

Comment

Yes Huejucar and Guejucar is the same place. It is a valley where Calvillo, Ojocaliente and Huanusco make up. This is an area of expertise for me. My mother's family was primarily from Calvillo (Huejucar), Aguascalientes and Mexico City.

Comment

Hello,

I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping you'll receive notification of this post. I'm interested in learning more about Calvillo and the Valley of Huejucar.

We have ancestry, circa 1730-1800's, from St Nicholás, La Barranca, Ojocaliente and Calvillo.

Surnames: Rodrígues, Macías-Balades, Ximénes, Peres and others. 

Most of the older Parish record entries for this area are included with Tabasco, Zacatecas (Villa del Refugio), but I cannot find much for Calvillo in Zacatecas records prior to the 1740s. Would very early baptisms and marriages from Calvillo be included elsewhere?

Did most of the early Spanish settlers to Calvillo predominately come from a specific area of Mexico?

Thank you. 

Travis

 

Published by Chema – Wed, 2011-10-12 18:09 | Permalink

Comment

Chema

Huejucar is a twon in Jalisco, not in Zacatecas, is near to Colotlan and Jerez.

Published by mendezdetorres – Thu, 2011-10-20 15:25 | Permalink

Comment

Huejucar and the Valle de Huejucar are two different places. The city of Huejucar, like you said is in Jalisco, while the valley of Huejucar is present-day Calvillo-Huanusco.

Genealogy Research

ISO the parents of sisters Nicolasa Vásquez (d. c1735) and Melchora de los Reyes alias Vásquez (b. c1649), of Santa María de los Lagos

Published by Travis –

Does anyone have information on sisters Nicolasa Vásquez (d. c1735) and Melchora de los Reyes alias Vásquez (b. c1649), of Santa María de los Lagos?

According to the dispensa matrimonial de Marcos de Espitia, cited (but not transcribed) on his wikitree entry, Nicolasa Vásquez and Melchora de los Reyes alias Vásquez (8th gr-grandmother), of Santa María de los Lagos, were (half?) sisters:

Nicolasa Vásquez (d. bef1735) - Espanola          -1-    Melchora de los Reyes (b. bef1649) - Mestiza
m. Antonio de Quezada - Espanol                                m. Antonio Santoyo alias Pérez (b. c1635) - Mestizo

Anastacia de Quezada (b. c1715) - Espanola      -2-    Teodora Pérez (b. c1670)
m. Marcos de Espitia (b. c1710) - Castizo                    m. Andrés de Espitia (b. c1665)

                                                                              -3-    Nicolás de Espitia (b. c1685)
                                                                                       m. Teresa Josefa López Lizalde (b. c1685)

                                                                              -4-    Marcos de Espitia (b. c1710) - Castizo
                                                                                      m. Anastacia de Quezada (b. c1715) - Espanola

Nicolasa Vásquez was born before c1685 (her first known child was born about 1700), and sister Melchora de los Reyes was born before c1650 (her first known child was born about 1665).

That's about a 35 year age gap, so maybe they are half-sisters?

I'm scouring birth, marriage, death records and the padrons but so far cannot find their parents.

Sources:

- Cited on Wikitree: Dispensa matrimonial de su hija Anastasia, Montejano Hilton, María de la Luz. Sagrada Mitra de Guadalajara, antiguo Obispado de la Nueva Galicia: expedientes de la série de matrimonios extractos siglos XVII-XVIII. México: M. Montejano Hilton, 1999, p. 322. 20 de enero de 1735

- 9 Feb 1735 marriage of Marcos de Espitia and Anastacia de Quezada ("consanguinidad de segundo con quarto grado"): https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-K9WH-K

Thank you,

Travis

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2025-10-03 10:36 | Permalink

Comment

If one is labeleled as español and the other mestizo, and they are labeled correctly, then they are most likely half - siblings   The probability is higher of finding first  a record naming the parents of Nicolasa Vásquez (d. bef1735) - Espanola,    And then use his parents as a focal point to find his half siblings Melchora de los Reyes parents 


Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Thank you, Rick. 

I agree. Their casta designations are another sign they may not be full sisters. 

Thank you for your advice. It makes good sense. I'll follow it. 

Best regards,

Travis

Genealogy Research

Hernández-Rubio Family: Pedro Hernándes & María Rubio

Published by Travis –

Pedro Hernándes (d. bef. 1610) & María Rubio of Lagos are 11th gr-grandparents through son, Miguel.

Does anyone know much about the early (pre-1600) Hernández-Rubio Family in Lagos?

Thank you,

Travis

 

Published by jrefugioghermosillo – Wed, 2025-10-01 18:31 | Permalink

Comment

There is an earlier NR thread about this family. Some of the information is dated and has been proven incorrect, but there's some interesting info about Maria Rubio's possible origins: https://nuestrosranchos.org/node/22015

According to one of the contributors, Pedro Hernandez cc Maria Rubio were among the founders of Lagos de Moreno. This might help support that: on 3 Feb 1569, a Pedro Hernandez was granted a titulo y merced de un sitio de estancia para ganado mayor and a caballeria de tierra in the jurisdiction of Lagos. I don’t know if it’s the same man: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDL-J7ND-X?view=explo…

You might already have this, their son, Lic. Cristobal Gutierrez, founded a capellania in July 1621: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DGJH-Y?i=259&wc=3JWY-T…

It includes the distribution of the estate of Pedro Hernandez to his heirs, naming the entire family group, including spouses of those already married (Catalina Rubio cc Luis Lopez Ramirez, Maria Rubio cc Juan Belmont Rangel). Cristobal and Leonor Gutierrrez were still minors (under 25), so their guardian ad litem, Pablo Garcia Crespo, was present. They do an appraisal of the real & chattel properties, and then a breakdown of how it was distributed. Maria Rubio says her son, Cristobal Gutierrez, who was about 22 years old (b.1599) wants to be ordained, which she wants too, so she donates the farm and everything to him. In Jan 1626, he was already a clerigo de menores ordenes and intended to advance to sacerdote. I took the liberty of looking through the Guadalajara archives and found his ordenes, with the hope that they’d include a limpieza de sangre, but they don’t, other than witnesses agreeing that he and his parents were all “old christians”. It does mention that Pedro Fernandez throughout his life served as teniente de alcalde mayor, alcalde ordinario, and regidor of the Villa de los los Lagos, as well as mayordomo of the parish church: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-DJBB-9?wc=3JW2-K68&lan…

I hope you find this helpful.
Saludos!
Manny Díez Hermosillo
 

Genealogy Research

New Member

Published by ERojano27 –

Hello everyone,

My name is Edward Rojano, a new member and I wanted to introduce myself.

I started researching my family tree just a few years ago, specifically my direct paternal lineage from Jalisco. I didn’t really know much of our family history past my great grandfather. So I started with my grandfather, gathering names of parents and grandparents from birth, marriage and death registrations on Family Tree. Slowly, my family tree started coming together and as you can see below, I belong to the Cornejo family from Jalostotitlan, in the Los Altos region of what is now Jalisco.

Lately, I have been researching and trying to obtain more information on Antonio Cornejo Riojano, born in 1658 as per Dr. Mariano González-Leal in tomo III of Retoños de España en la Nueva Galicia. I have been unable to find documents which definitively name and show Alonso Cornejo as his father, as is believed. Also, I have been trying to find the source his Riojano surname that was often used along with Cornejo. Maybe he had a different mother than his other brothers? In his book under the Cornejo family, Dr. González-Leal, when going over the Ramas De Jalostotitlan, states “estas ramas fueron hijos de Alonso Cornejo y de Inés Ramírez.” He also adds, “usaron apellidos de Cornejo, Cornejo de Arriaga y Cornejo Riojano, que por razones que no me es dable.”

I was hoping to collaborate with anyone else researching this same line or see if there are any other resources we here I can find some of the above info. Thank you for taking the time to read all this. I am still very new to all this and here to learn as much as I can.

Generation:

1. Me

2. Father (living)

3.Pedro Rojano Parra: born 18 October 1921, San Juan de Amula, Jalisco; died 10 October 2024 in Oceanside, CA.

4. Margarito Rojano Castillo: born 10 June 1888 El Límon, Jalisco; died 21 July 1934 in San Juan de Amula, El Límon, Jalisco.

5. Juan Cornejo Garcia  (also known as Juan Rojano Garcia): born 26 November 1847 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 27 April 1900 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

6. José Remigio Cornejo Tostado (also known as Remigio Rojano): born 30 September 1824 in Coca, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 17 November 1892 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

7. José Ramón Nonato Cornejo Franco (also known as Ramon Rojano): born 1795 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco

8. José Servando Cornejo Ramírez de Hermosillo: born 1755 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in 1833 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

9. José Fulgencio Cornejo Romo: born January 1730 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 20 January 1793 in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

10. Salvador Cornejo Ramírez: born 1689 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 28 June 1740 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

11. Antonio Cornejo Riojano: born 1658; died 14 June 1732 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

12. Alonso de Cornejo: born about 1600 in Chalco, Mexico; died November 1671 Mexico City.

13. Fernando de Gordíbar Osorio: born about 1550; deceased.

14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573.


 

Published by rmfpdx – Fri, 2025-10-03 15:07 | Permalink

Comment

Rick, Edward's no. 12 is my 8th great-grandfather :) Btw, what is the source for saying he was born in Chalco? 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Mon, 2025-09-08 12:52 | Permalink

Comment

Saludos Edward y Leonardo,

Saludos Leonardo y Edward,


After reading the nobilario, I had more questions in my mind that led me back to Leonardo’s and Edward’s questions regarding the Osorio ancestry, so I went back to my notes and did more research.   I had originally told Edward that I believed that the Rojano/Riojano surname came from a “de Rojas” ancestry in our Osorio line.  But when I went back to look at out ancestral line with Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as Pedro Alvarez de Osorio’s wife I couldn’t find the Rojas line.   Then Leonardo questioned the ancestry.  Those thoughts were lingering as a cloud as I read the nobilario.  So yes the line starts with Juan Alvarez Osorio and his wife Aldonza de Guzman, but the nobilario doesn’t mention the wives names of Pedro Alvarez Osorio and Alvar Perez Osorio.   So I did more research which is hard on this family because there were so many Rodrigo, Alvaro, and Pedro Osorios in the family.  And it turns out that I needed to merge some of the Pedro Alvarez Osorios that I had researched.     Pedro Alvarez Osorio, son of Juan Alvarez Osorio and Aldonza Guzman, had at least four wives.    The book Anales de la Real Academia Matritense de Heraldica y Genealogia IV (1996-1997) does not even list Maria Fernandez de Villalobos as one of his wives, but she is found in other documents as his wife.     But this book specifically states that Alvaro Perez Osorio is the son of one of his other wives, Isabel de Rojas (daughter of Martin Sanchez de Rojas III, Señor de Monzon, and his wife Elvira Manrique).   This book also says that Alvar Perez Osorio had children  with Isabel de Losada out of wedlock.

So the tree looks like this:

1.)- Juan Alvarez Osorio + Aldonza Guzman

2.)- Pedro Alvarez Osorio + 

3.)- Alvar Perez Osorio + 

4.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices

5.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez

6.)- “el conquistador” Martin Lopez Osorio


1. Edward Rojano

2. Father (living)

3.Pedro Rojano Parra: born 18 October 1921, San Juan de Amula, Jalisco; died 10 October 2024 in Oceanside, CA.

4. Margarito Rojano Castillo: born 10 June 1888 El Límon, Jalisco; died 21 July 1934 in San Juan de Amula, El Límon, Jalisco.

5. Juan Cornejo Garcia  (also known as Juan Rojano Garcia): born 26 November 1847 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 27 April 1900 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

6. José Remigio Cornejo Tostado (also known as Remigio Rojano): born 30 September 1824 in Coca, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 17 November 1892 in Ejutla, Jalisco.

7. José Ramón Nonato Cornejo Franco (also known as Ramon Rojano): born 1795 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco

8. José Servando Cornejo Ramírez de Hermosillo: born 1755 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; deceased in 1833 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

9. José Fulgencio Cornejo Romo: born January 1730 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 20 January 1793 in. Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

10. Salvador Cornejo Ramírez: born 1689 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco; died 28 June 1740 Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

11. Antonio Cornejo Riojano: born 1658; died 14 June 1732 in Jalostotitlan, Jalisco.

12. Alonso de Cornejo: born about 1600 in Chalco, Mexico; died November 1671 Mexico City.

13. Fernando de Gordíbar Osorio: born about 1550; deceased.

14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573

15.)- Christóbal Diaz Narices + Estefanía Rodriguez

16.)- Martin Alvarez Osorio + Mariana Lopez Narices
 

17. Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406.   + 

18. Pedro Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1303 in Reino de Castilla y León; deceased 14 November 1360 en Villanubla, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León. “Era adelantado mayor de tierra de León y Merino de Asturias cuando el rey don Pedro mandó darle muerte en Villanubla el 14 de Noviembre de 1360. MARTÍN FUERTES, Los Osario, op. cit. pág. 29. + Isabel De Rojas,  (daughter of Martin Sanchez de Rojas III, Señor de Monzon, and his wife Elvira Manrique).

19. Juan Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1275 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. 1328.  + Aldonza Guzman.

20. Álvaro Rodríguez Osorio: born approx. 1235 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. in Benavente, Zamora, Castilla y León 1321.

21. Rodrigo Rodríguez Osorio: born approx.1200 in Astorga, Reino de León; deceased approx 1273. Took part in the conquest of Sevilla against the moors. Figura entre los donadíos adjudicados en el lugar de Bi~ena: a Rodrigo Rodríguez, fijode Rodrigo Osores, quarenta aranzadas e seis yugadas, anno e vez, e cambiarogelo en Behar (pág. 37) e igualmente en Soca~et: a Rodrigo Rodríguez Osores quarenta aranzadas e un par de casas, e cambiogelo despues en Behar (pág. 38). Igualmente figura con otras cuarenta yugadas en Alaquaz, donde es citado tras Diego López de Salcedo y Sancho Martínez de Xodar (pág. 156). En las dos primeras menciones aparece seguido de Martín González, fijo de Gonzalo Osores, y en la segunda se añade su primo (véase GONZÁLEZ, Repartimiento de Sevilla, op. cit. 11).

22. Rodrigo Osorio: born about 1166; deceased approx. From, Los Osorioun Linaje de Mas de Mil Años al Servicio de la Corona por Haime de Salazar y Acha, “XI-RODRIGO OSORIO, del que no sabemos casi nada. Estaba ya muerto en 1261, año en que su viuda y sus hijos pleitearon por San Román de Ornilla. Ella se llamaba doña EL VIRA FERNÁNDEZ<82

82.- Sobre esta generación nos ilustran dos documentos de San Pedro de Montes de 10 de junio de 1261 y de 26 de enero de 1272. El primero es una sentencia de Alfonso X sobre unas pro-

piedades en San Román de Ornilla, tras un pleito entre San Pedró de Montes y donna Elvira Ferrandez e sos fijos Rodrigo Rodriguez e Alvar Rodriguez. El segundo completa el anterior y se trata de la avenencia entre estos últimos,.fiyos de Rodrigo Osoyris e de donna Elvira Fernandez e de su tía donna Orraca Osoyriz e de Martin Gonzalez de Laguna e de suos herederos, con dicho monasterio. Parece claro que el tal Martín González es el primo citado como tal en el repartimiento de Sevilla (véase QUINTANA, San Pedro de Montes, op. cit. docs. 350 y 363, págs. 450 y465).

 23. Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.

24. El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.

25. El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.

26. El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.

27. El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.

28. El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.

29. Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).

30. Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.

31. Ecta: born in the first years of 10th  century; died unknown


Rick A. Ricci

Book: Mygenes2000

Published by R.A.Ricci – Wed, 2025-08-20 01:54 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Edward,


Martin Lopez Osorio’s family tree goes much farther in records according to an old book I read many years ago.  The book states the the lineage can be found in another book that is at the Smithsonian Library.   One day I will make it out there and look for that book.  

You and I are fifth cousins.  

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hello Rick Ricci, fifth cousins that’s so cool, thanks so much for reaching out. I had previously read information you had posted when I had been looking into Carlos Lomelín and the Lomellini family, thank you for all that.

Yes, with Martin Lopez Osorio, I was able to trace him back to the Osorio family with the help of a book I purchased titled, El Nobilario de Martín López Osorio by Dr. Clevy Lloyd Strout 1980 and also from a publication titled Los Osorio: Un Linaje de más de Mil Años al Servicio de La Corona by medieval genealogist and historian Jaime Salazar y Acha, as well as another book I found on the Osorio family that I can’t remember right now. Below is what I was able to gather from my direct paternal lineage. I will upload some of the items in my folder here if that helps. I am still trying to figure out the website. Thank you.

Generation:

14. Martín Lopez Osorio (also known as Lope de Osorio) Conquistador de la Nueva España: born about 1493 in Sevilla, Spain; died approximately 1573.

15. Cristobal Díaz Narices Osorio: born approximately 1470 in Sevilla, Spain; deceased.

16. Martín Álvarez Osorio: born unknown in Sevilla, Spain; died unknown.

17. Álvaro Pérez Osorio “El Cojo”: born approx. 1348 en el Reino de León; deceased approx. 1406.

18. Pedro Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1303 in Reino de Castilla y León; deceased 14 November 1360 en Villanubla, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León. “Era adelantado mayor de tierra de León y Merino de Asturias cuando el rey don Pedro mandó darle muerte en Villanubla el 14 de Noviembre de 1360. MARTÍN FUERTES, Los Osario, op. cit. pág. 29.

19. Juan Álvarez Osorio: born approx. 1275 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. 1328.

20. Álvaro Rodríguez Osorio: born approx. 1235 in Villaornate y Castro, Reino de Castilla y León; Deceaced approx. in Benavente, Zamora, Castilla y León 1321.

21. Rodrigo Rodríguez Osorio: born approx.1200 in Astorga, Reino de León; deceased approx 1273. Took part in the conquest of Sevilla against the moors. Figura entre los donadíos adjudicados en el lugar de Bi~ena: a Rodrigo Rodríguez, fijode Rodrigo Osores, quarenta aranzadas e seis yugadas, anno e vez, e cambiarogelo en Behar (pág. 37) e igualmente en Soca~et: a Rodrigo Rodríguez Osores quarenta aranzadas e un par de casas, e cambiogelo despues en Behar (pág. 38). Igualmente figura con otras cuarenta yugadas en Alaquaz, donde es citado tras Diego López de Salcedo y Sancho Martínez de Xodar (pág. 156). En las dos primeras menciones aparece seguido de Martín González, fijo de Gonzalo Osores, y en la segunda se añade su primo (véase GONZÁLEZ, Repartimiento de Sevilla, op. cit. 11).

22. Rodrigo Osorio: born about 1166; deceased approx. From, Los Osorioun Linaje de Mas de Mil Años al Servicio de la Corona por Haime de Salazar y Acha, “XI-RODRIGO OSORIO, del que no sabemos casi nada. Estaba ya muerto en 1261, año en que su viuda y sus hijos pleitearon por San Román de Ornilla. Ella se llamaba doña EL VIRA FERNÁNDEZ<82

82.- Sobre esta generación nos ilustran dos documentos de San Pedro de Montes de 10 de junio de 1261 y de 26 de enero de 1272. El primero es una sentencia de Alfonso X sobre unas pro-

piedades en San Román de Ornilla, tras un pleito entre San Pedró de Montes y donna Elvira Ferrandez e sos fijos Rodrigo Rodriguez e Alvar Rodriguez. El segundo completa el anterior y se trata de la avenencia entre estos últimos,.fiyos de Rodrigo Osoyris e de donna Elvira Fernandez e de su tía donna Orraca Osoyriz e de Martin Gonzalez de Laguna e de suos herederos, con dicho monasterio. Parece claro que el tal Martín González es el primo citado como tal en el repartimiento de Sevilla (véase QUINTANA, San Pedro de Montes, op. cit. docs. 350 y 363, págs. 450 y465).

 23. Osorio González Señor de Villalobos (also known as Gonzalo Osórez) born approx 1130 ; died 30 May 1138.

24. El Conde Osorio Martínez: born approx 1108 in Villalobos, Zamora, Reino de Castilla y León; died in the battle of Lobregal 1st February of 1160 in Villabrámiga, Valladolid, Reino de Castilla y León.

25. El Conde Martín Flaínez: born before 1065; died battle of Uclés 30 May 1108 in the locality of Uclés.

26. El Conde Flaín Fernández: born approx. 1020 in Reino de León; died shortly after 1170.

27. El Conde Fernando Flaínez: born before 999 in Cea, Reino de León; died around 1053.

28. El Conde Flaín Muñoz (also knows as Flaín Nuñez in La Historia Roderici): born before 975; died before 1003.

29. Munio Flaínez (also known as Nuño Flaínez in La Historia Roderici: born before 943; died unknown, after 962 ( last documentation in the court was 962).

30. Flaín Ectaz: born approx. 932; died approx. 950.

31. Ecta: born in the first years of 10th  century; died unknown.


 

Comment

Hello Edward,


Thank you for the information.   I have done much work on the Osorio family and I was hoping to make the connection to the Cornejo lineage by going to Washington DC to get that information that you sent me.   I would like to get a hold of El Nobilario de Martín López Osorio by Dr. Clevy Lloyd Strout 1980 and the article you mentioned.   Do you know where I can get my hands on them?


I also descend from the Osorio family through my Reynoso ancestry.

Thanks,

Rick A. Ricci,     

Comment

Hi Rick,

Of course, thank you! That’s so cool, it is such an interesting history that of the Osorio family and their role in the history of León, the reconquista and the arrival to what is now Mexico. I feel like we are just starting to scratch the surface.

Yes, the Osorio article by Jaime Salazar y Acha I have uploaded the PDF in my folder here along with a few other items.

In regard to the Nobilario, during my research, I just happened to come across the used book on AbeBooks earlier this year. I just searched and don’t see any for sale unfortunately. I don’t know if this was ever published. It appears to be an original final draft, as the book has corrections made by hand and whiteout on the pages. In the book he states the work consists of one single manuscript, which he cataloged in 1962 and I believe is still housed at the Thomas Gilcrease Institute of American History and Art in Tulsa, OK, that bears the number 106 in a catalog of Hispanic Documents at the Institute.

In the introduction, he says this work is his translation of the transcripts of the letters of patent nobility litigated by Garcia López Osorio, Bernardino Osorio and Cristóbal Díaz Naríces, sons of Martin Alvarez Osorio and Mariana López Naríces on January 28 1530 to prove their nobility. I have also uploaded a family tree he has in the book. I will work on uploading a few more things from it.

My folder: https://nuestrosranchos.org/ERojano27


Thanks,

Edward.


 

Comment

Hello Edward,

I have studied the Osorio family for many decades.   A big part of my research includes the Wife of #18) Pedro Alvarez Osorio, Maria Fernandez de Villalobos. Her ancestry includes the royal Houses of Europe (Spain, England, Germany, etc).   This line of ancestry includes Saint Matilda (Mathilde) of Ringleheim.  I will include her in a book that I am writing for my daughter of my ancestors and ancestors siblings that have been canonized as saints.  King Pedro sent the order to kill Pedro Alvarez Osorio, so he killed the husband of his not to distant cousin Maria Fernandez de Villalobos.  Her close relationship to the king is documented.

Thank you so much for this information.  I believe a copy of this “Nobilario” is the book housed in Washington DC. I no longer have to go to Washington DC to track down this information.  Over many years, I kept repeating to myself that “next year I will go to Washington DC and find the Osorio lineage of my Cornejo line.”  But something has always come up and I never made the trip.

As to your question of “where does the Riojano/Rojano name come from?”, The Riojano or Rojano part ot the Cornejo surname only appears after the marriage to the de Rojas family, so I think the Riojano/Rojano was to also show descent from the De Rojas family.


Thanks again Edward,

Rick

 

Comment

Hello Rick,

Thanks so much for the info, that is so interesting. Oh wow, so you have pretty extensive knowledge of the Osorio family! The medieval period in Spanish history is so fascinating. To me, that period and its continuation into what is now Mexico and the meeting of the new world and old is very interesting.  Especially now, knowing our ancestors played a part in all of that. That is a great idea about leaving a book for your daughter. As I have been learning of my family history the last few years, I have thought about taking all my findings and compiling it for my children so they can learn and know all of this.

I am glad I could help with the Nobiliario of Martín López. I know how that goes, I’ve been wanting to go to Mexico City to get to know the city and see some of the historical sites, but same as with you, something comes up haha.

Thank you for that info about the Riojano/Cornejo surname. Who is it that married into the de Rojas family and where did they come from? I am not familiar with the family line. If you haven’t yet, please check out some of the items uploaded in my file.

Thank you very much,

Edward


 

Comment

Saludos Edward,

I saw that someone had already added the Osorio lineage to the Cornejo line on familysearch.  I haven’t checked it all out yet but I did find one common mistake.  Many genealogists have mistaken two cousins with the same name and the same title.    I am sending you an explanation of the mistake and the right lineage.   

Giron to Fernandez de Villalobos

I. Gonzalo Rodríguez Girón (b. 1160) de Fernando III recibe el señorío de Autillo en 1221. Casó con Sancha Rodríguez

II. Gonzalo González Girón, canciller mayor de Fernando III. Casó con Teresa Arias Quesada, hija de Arias González de Quesada y de María Froilaz.

III. Berenguela González Girón, señora de Autillo, quien casó con Lope Ruiz de Haro, el chico, II señor de La Guardia y de Bailén, hijo de Lope Díaz de Haro III, señor de Vizcaya y de Urraca de León.

IV. María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.

[Aquí es donde seguimos dos líneas. Ruy Gil De Villalobos y María Diaz De Haro tienen dos hijos, Gil Ruiz de Villalobos y Lope Ruiz de Villalobos, que tienen nietos del mismo nombre, Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos. El mayor hijo, Gil tiene un hijo Ruy que es el padre de su nieto Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos que se casó con Inés de la Cerda. Muchos dicen que este Fernan es el señor de Autillo. Pero sus hijos mueren antes de el. El primo legítimo más cercano es su primo segundo del mismo nombre.

Here it is as a chart:

María Díaz de Haro, señora de Autillo, casó con Ruy Gil de Villalobos, señor de Villalobos.

Their two sons Lope and Gil each have a grandson named Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos

1)- Lope Ruiz de Villalobos 

casó con Berenguela Perez de Castaneda

                    1)  Gil Ruiz de Villalobos

2) -Rodrigo López  de Villalobos 

(aka Rodrigo Perez de Villalobos)

                    2)  Rodrigo Gil de Villalobos
3)- Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos  (aka Fernando Rodriguez de                          Villalobos)    3).    Fernan Ruiz de Villalobos    casó con Ines de la Cerda
4)- Maria Fernandez de Villalobos casó con Pedro Alvarez de Osorio                                            
Announcements and Events

Carlo Lomellin

Published by Visitor (not verified) –

I just been wondering what is know about Carlos Lomellin. I am a decedent of him through his son Lucas. I have research him and from other post that I have seen I know that he worked on the mines? I know that he came from Genoa Italy. Nobody seems to know who his parents were. Is this because Carlos is a dead end or because nobody has research the records in Italy? 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Thu, 2023-04-06 23:25 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Ana,

You are not the only one looking for a reply button.   First  I want to answer your questions.    

(1)  My book is titled my genes2000     

 (2) The reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo."  

(3) I think that you should focus on the Lomellini Spinola line as the ancestry of Carlo Lomelin (Carlos Lomellini) and Luis Lomelin (Luciano Lomellini).

(4) there were many “Lomellini family” documents that were found in the Library of an estate.   They were put up for sale for a tremendous amount of money many years ago.  I don’t know if they were sold or donated, but I did have access to them many years ago.

What I can say for certain is that I have narrowed it down to these two cousins Named Carlo Lomellini.    One Carlo Lomellini with a brother named Luciano Lomellini (Luis Lomelin) and a father named Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini.  The father of the Carlo that is married to Porzia is named Vicenzo Lomellini, and he is the leader of the Family business that includes the family of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini.   Vicenzo Lomellini’s great aunt is married to a Marin who is also in control of the family business at one time. I don’t know who was in control first.   I also descend from this great aunt Lomellini through my ancestor Captain Luis Marin.    

The story handed down through the centuries of the family being involved with the purchase of  slaves led me to  Carlo Lomellini, son of Porzia.  But both Carlo Lomellini had a part in the family business which included the transporting of slaves.   This was not the only thing that they transported.  They were in the business of transporting goods.

It is clear from all the information that I have gathered that an argument can be made for each of these two Carlo Lomellini.   The more information that I gather leads to these two Carlo Lomellini, but does not prove which of the two is the Carlo Lomellini that we seek.  I had leaned towards the Carlo Lomellini that is the son of Vicenzo and Porzia,  but we also have the story that Carlo Lomelin and Luis Lomelin are brothers and a birth date about 1584  for Carlo Lomelin which leads us to the Carlo Lomelin that is the son of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini.  The Carlo Lomelin son of Vicenzo is at least 15 years older.    If we stick to the 1584 date then it has to be the son of Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini.   Both of the Carlo’s parents are in Spain and part of the family business.

I have made a very strong  case that our Carlo Lomelin is one of these two Carlo Lomellini.  What I can not do is say for sure which one is our Carlo Lomelin.    I haven’t completed writing the book on the Lomellini because I was hoping to find evidence that would confirm which of the two is the one that came to Mexico, but I have not been successful in finding that document.  My paternal grandmother gave birth to my father in her fifties.  And then had another child a couple of years later so that is why I don’t remove the Carlo Lomellini that is the son of Porzia as a possibility.  But the year 1584 would mean that she was an older woman when she had him or that she was extremely young when she first became a slave of her future husband.  The baptismal record states that she is the slave of Vicenzo Lomellini but doesn’t give her age.  The date of the record  is the fact that is changing my mind and having me lean towards Carlo Lomellini Spinola being the same Carlo Lomelin that came to Mexico.  We also need to remember that the family story was that our ancestors Carlo Lomelin and Luis (Luciano) were brothers.   If this is true then Carlo Lomellini Spinola is our man and we now have Luis Lomellini’s (Luciano Lomellini) ancestry.   Carlo Lomelllini’s marriage to Porzia is very interesting and demands further investigation as there is much more to the story.

1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa

2. Ansaldo Lomellini

3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia

4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina

5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina 

********6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are both Carlo's ancestors]

7. Goffredo Lomellini 

8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola

9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala

10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola

Parents of brothers :

#11

Luciano Lomellini Spinola (aka Luis Lomelin) and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (aka Carlo Lomelin)

 

Sorry that the book isn’t available to the public yet,

Rick A. Ricci

Source: book mygenes2000

Published by Giest1 – Wed, 2023-04-05 04:04 | Permalink

Comment

Bear with me I am not used to the new format yet.  I didn't see a reply button so I am hope all is well. Quick question Rick what is the name of your book regarding the Lomellini family? We descend many times from that family line. Also where did you find Portzia's info on her back story? 

Also do we not have a mother for Vincenzo di Lomellini yet? I didn't see it in the list. I did read some interesting information regarding the family and the paintings in the Prado , Scottish etc. Museums. Facninating family. I too think there is a connection with the Lomellini and the Lomelinos.  In fact I think I know where the Lomelinos ended up in Italy and their Palace still stands but is under threat currently. I shudder to think what would happen to the building, it SHOULD be a UNESCO heritage site given the over 1000 year history and priceless wall paintings and frescos. 

In the house there might even be more documents about the family in it, yeah, everything was just left as is, so it is just a matter of time before vandals, squatters and weather destroy it.  YIKES! I just saw a post about it yesterday.

 

Thank you Rick.
 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sun, 2021-06-20 01:06 | Permalink

Comment

 

Brothers Luciano Lomellini  (Luis  Lomelin)  and Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlo Lomelin) 

1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa 

2. Ansaldo Lomellini 

3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia 

4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina 

5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina 

6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins 

7. Goffredo Lomellini 

8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola 

9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala 

10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola 

Parents of 

11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola   (AKA Luis Lomelin)     And Carlo Lomellini Spinola (Carlos Lomelin)

 

Vasallo de Lumello picked up his surname from where he lived before becoming consul in Genoa. His children were the first to be called Lomellini. His first name came from his father’s surname. His father’s legitimate sons carried the Vasallo surname and they lived in Milan which was a rival city-state to Genoa. There did not it seem to be much interaction between Vassallo and his half siblings. 

Rick A. Ricci

Published by Erik Andrés Re… – Fri, 2021-06-18 02:02 | Permalink

Comment

Thank you Rick,

This is quite interesting, in particular the case of the -former- slave Porzia. Thank you for clearing this. I have seen how some people made up a last name name and background for Porzia. Perhaps they are ashamed to descend from a slave. I am not and I hope more studies focus on her, I find her marriage with Vicenzo most interesting.

Best regards,

Erik

Comment

Dear Erik,

I also find the relationship and marriage of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia to be very interesting. For Vincenzo to be the “owner”of Porzia when she is converted from Muslim to Catholicism when she is baptized in 1551, and to later marry her has to be quite a story. To become the wife of a man who “owns her” and who is the leader of a large business that includes slave trading, is most likely a love story of “Cinderella” proportions. Vincenzo Lomellini descends from a family with much history going back to 385 ad, so for him to marry his slave meant that he was “head over heels” fascinated by her. If he wasn’t then he wouldn’t have married her as she was already his slave. Her life had to be a very interesting one.

In many generations we find that we are missing a spouse’s name. In the case of Vicenzo’s ’parents we only have his father’s name. Yet, we are provided with Porzia’s name and with the information that she had been his slave. When I tracked down her baptismal record it provided more proof that she had been his slave. It also identified her as converting from Muslim to Catholic. I am hoping that we can get more information on her and Vincenzo Lomellini.

Thanks Erik,
Rick A. Ricci

Comment

I believe I saw others referring to her as his Jewish slave or in historical texts as "schiava, poi moglie" which just means "Slave then wife".  There is no mention of her background. I believe they identified her in the Van dyke painting she is supposedly in the red head in the painting dressed in black of course. Can you shoot me the link where it identifies her as a Muslim then Christian convert? I do Spanish paleography so I do not see documents like that very often in the archives. 

Either a Jewish or Muslim would not matter when it came to slavery so she could be either only Christians could not be made slaves back then. 

Thank you again, I am researching this line again and wanted to find all of our Lomellini ties.

Comment

Porzia was a Muslim before she was converted to Catholicism.   In a book that I posted it shows how her future husband had her baptized when she was a slave.       Later on in other records she is listed a being his wife but previously his slave.  ("Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana). There is no questioning of these facts as there is documentation.  This Carlo’s father worked in the same “company “ as Christopher Columbus S father and they had a great aunt that is married a “Marin” and they are the ancestors of the Marin branch that went to Mexico and left many descendants.

What is still questionable is which of the two Carlo Lomellini is the Carlo Lomelin that came to Mexico and is the ancestor to the majority of the Lomeli .   There is the one who does have a brother named Luciani Lomelini ( Luis Lomelin) and then there is the one that descends from Porzia.  We know this from the date of Porzias baptism which would have made her most unlikely, not impossible though, to be the mother of a son born in 1584.

If the birthdate that most people give for Carlo Lomelin is correct, then he is not the son of Porzia.   That would mean that he is the Carlo that has a brother named Luciano (Luis)

sons of Giacomo Lomellini and Paola Spinola
Girolamo Lomellini is the son of Giovanni Battista Lomellini and Lucia
Giovanni Battista is the son of Giacomo Lomellini and n. Crivella Della Spezia
Giacomo is the son of Domenico Lomellini and Bastiana de Saulo
Domenico is the son of Oronasio Lomellini and Peretta Vivaldi
Oronasio is the son of Damiano Lomellini and Battina Squarciafico
Damiano is the son of Onofrio Lomellini jr. and Romanella de Marini
Onofrio is the son of Onofrio Lomellini (Lumbello) Sr, and Luchina Pansano
Onofrio Sr. Is the son of Lodisio de Lumbello and his second wife Catarina Barbavari
Lodisio is the son of Riccardo de Lumbello + Catarina
Riccardo is the son of Oberto de Lumbello + Angela
Oberto is the son of Ansaldo da Lumello
Ansaldo is the son of Vasallo da Lumello


 




Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sun, 2021-06-20 09:33 | Permalink

Comment

Lomellini. The first with this surname to Carlo Lomelin

1)-Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo descends two Vasallo Vasallo so he isn’t the first to have it as a first name. His half-siblings that are legitimate carry the Vasallo surname.

2)-Ansaldo da Lumello - Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Italia

3)- Simone da Lumello Died: 1253 in Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Italia

4)-Oberto da Lumello- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Italia
........... +Angela- Born: in Genova, Italia

5)- Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia
............ +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Italia

6)-Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia-
............. +Orietta- Born: in Genova

7)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia--
..............+ Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari

8)- Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Italia
...............+ Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo

9)- Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............ + Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Italia, -Father: Stefano Gentile

10)- Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Italia.

11)- Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown.
........+Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vicenzo era su dueño cuando ella se bautizo.

12)- Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López : Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1565 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died before 1649, most likely in 1648 in Spain.

Before Vasallo de Lumello there are 31 more generations to 385 ad. In all there are 56 generations from 385 ad to my daughter.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000

Published by R.A.Ricci – Thu, 2021-06-17 12:48 | Permalink

Comment

Steven Francisco Hernández organized the tree as follows, however I did make a few additions to Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia’s information. The reason for the two lines is that Carlo descends from two branches of the Lomellini family. The first branch is through Francesca Lomellini, and the second branch is through her husband Tobia Lomellini.

1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia. Vasallo is named after his paternal grandfather.
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1287 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Tomasina - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Leonello da Lumello (Lenello Lomellini) - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1343 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................+Caterina Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Napoleone Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................... 7 Niccolo Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
......................... +Luchina Lercari Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Domenico Lercari
...................... 8 [2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............................ +[1] Tobia Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Tobia Lomellini Mother: Orietta
.......................... 9 [3] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[4] Battina Grillo - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
............................. 10 [5] Tobia Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................... +[6] Giorgietta Gentile - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Father: Stefano Gentile
................................. 11 [7] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................................... 12 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
.......................................... +[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vincenzo era su dueño cuando ella bautizo.
........................................ 13 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. - Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown

======================================================

Second branch:
........ 4 Oberto da Lumello- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Angela- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................. +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................... +Orietta- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
................... 7 [1] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia--
.........................+[2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
...................... 8 [3] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............................ +[4] Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
.......................... 9 [5] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[6] Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Stefano Gentile
............................. 10 [7] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia.
................................. 11 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1530 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown
.......................................+[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: 1540. c.5/April/1551-- Schiava, por moglie quiere decir que primero fue esclava, y después su esposa. Vicenzo era su dueño cuando ella se bautizo.
.................................... 12 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note by Steven Francisco Hernández López: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1565 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown

Published by R.A.Ricci – Thu, 2021-06-17 23:09 | Permalink

Comment

The thread on the latest on Carlo Lomelin’s ancestry at : http://www.nuestrosranchos.org/node/20549,

In this thread you will find that The father of Carlo Lomellini, Vicenzo Lomellini, is the leader of the Lomellini/Marini business group that were merchants that also were slave traders. This is the information that had been passed down by Carlo Lomelin’s descendants in Los Altos de Jalisco for over four hundred years. The research led to the information that Capitan Luis Marin, that is married to a relative of the second wife of Hernan Cortez, is a cousin of Carlo Lomelini as Capitan Luis Marin descends from Vicenzo’s aunt, sister of Vicenzo’s father.

Vicenzo Lomellini does not use the name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini. The name Paolo Vicenzo Lomellini is the name of the father of Luciano Lomelin Spinola. Luciano’s family was also in Castilla and involved in business with Vicenzo. The Lomellini/Marini family had part of the business based in San Lucar de Barrameda.

Steven Francisco Hernández López did a great job of organizing the ancestry of Carlo Lomellini. However, Carlos’s mother who is named Porzia is not born in 1551. That is the year she is baptized by her owner, Vicenzo Lomellini. I don’t believe that he would have married her if she had been his slave from birth. It doesn’t make sense for Vicenzo to have an infant slave at 21. Because Vicenzo owns a couple of slaves that he is baptizing on 5/April/1551, I would give him the age of 21. If he were much younger it would be his parents baptizing them, and they would be their slaves. So Vicenzo Lomellini’s birth year is estimated to be circa 1530. Since Vicenzo later marries her after she has been his slave, I am estimating that she is eleven years old on 5/April/1551 when she is converted from Muslim to Catholic at her baptism. That would give her a birthdate of 1540. If Carlo Lomellini was born between her 20th and 35th birthday then Carlo Lomellini would have been born between 1560 and 1575 and not 1584 like most people copy from secondary sources.

I have seen a false ancestry of Porzia posted on the internet. Porzia had been a Muslim slave and I have not seen any records that identify her parents.

Rick A. Ricci
Source: my book Mygenes2000

Published by R.A.Ricci – Sat, 2019-11-23 20:00 | Permalink

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Earlier In this thread I incorrectly posted

“ Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos".

But this Maria is not their daughter.. The Maria Lomelin that is married to Francisco De la Cueva is their great granddaughter. I posted the correct lineage in the thread on my Corea Peralta ancestry.

Another mistake that I wrote in this thread was that Paolo Vicenzo Lomelini was richer than his cousin Vicenzo Lomelin, but that was not true. Vicenzo Lomellini was the leader of the Lomelini and Marin clan in Castilla. This business group included Vicenzo’s aunt who is also my ancestor as she the grandmother or great grandmother of my ancestor Conquistador Luis Marin.

Even though Paolo Vicenzo Lomelin and Vicenzo Lomelin were only third cousins, they held a much closer business relationship and Vicenzo was the one in charge. This family was in involved in the slave trade so the stories we heard about Carlo Lomelini’s family being slave traders is true.

Rick A. Ricci

Published by Esther Hernand… – Mon, 2019-06-17 16:42 | Permalink

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Hi Rick,

It's not by much but here it is:

Esther (me)
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 7 cM across 1 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 25 cM across 3 segments

My grandmother - Socorro Fuentes Cervantes
AC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 4 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 10 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 15 cM across 1 segments

My mother - Josefina Lopez Fuentes
AC
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
OC
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 20 cM across 3 segments
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 4th–6th Cousin
Shared DNA: 24 cM across 3 segments

My dad - Roberto Hernandez Ramirez
Patricia Romo
Predicted relationship: 5th–8th Cousin
Shared DNA: 11 cM across 1 segments

Thank you,
Esther

Published by R.A.Ricci – Wed, 2019-04-10 09:40 | Permalink

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My mother’s dna analysis from AncestryDNA shows her to be 18% Italian. Both her parents are from Los Altos De Jalisco. My mother has many Romo De Vivar, Perez-franco(Perestrello), Marin(i) and Lomelin(i) ancestral lines. I believe that these four ancestral lines are the ones that contribute to the majority of her 18% Italian results

While researching my Lomelini ancestors, my work merged with the research that I was doing on a few other Genoese ancestral lines that I was working on. I did not complete my book on my Lomellini ancestors because I wanted to see if I could find DNA evidence by compiling a reference line of descent that stayed in Genoa. Yesterday I attempted to contact, through email, italian descendants of siblings of the ancestors that I have been studying in order set up a dna analysis of their relationships to the the Lomellini descendants in Nueva Galicia. I hope to add these dna comparisons to my book.

Rick A. Ricci
Mygenes2000

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Hello Rick,

I just joined a Facebook group after being invited by another Ancestry member that noticed I have Lomelin family member in my tree. She has asked me to have descendants of the family join the group. She has MANY descendants of the Lomellini family in the group too who have the Landi surname. The group's name is Fam Lomelin Lomelin. I also wonder how many of us here have done DNA and uploaded to Gedmatch Genesis to see if we're related. I've tested myself, my mother, and a great aunt who is also from Jalisco. I'd be willing to share gedmatch numbers on here if anyone is interested.

Kenya

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Hi Kenya,

I uploaded DNA to Gedmatch and would be willing to share gedmatch numbers to see if we are related. I have hit a wall on my 6th great grandfather, Onofre de Lomelin (1730-1759) who died in El Rancho el Humedo, Jalostotitlan, Jalisco and am searching for clues on his father (no conosido) and mother Maria Nuñez ( - bef. 1754). Not alone in the search, I know of a few others here and on other sites searching for the same. I've come across some trees online who have a known Lomelin as a father (Gabriel, Hernando or Domingo) and a different mother, however his marriage certificate to Angela de Jesus Yniguez (abt 1734-abt 1777) m.February 13, 1754 states Maria Nuñez as mother, deceased and unknown father, yet Onofre is given the surname Lomelin. Hopefully we can find his baptismal certificate, death certificate for his mother or a marriage dispensa with key information than can shed some light.

Comment

Hi Rick,

I just looked up "Mygenes2000" on ancestry to see if our DNA matched. I have my both my parents DNA as well as my maternal grandmother. My grandmother, mom and my self matched AC, OC and Patricia Romo and my father matched Patricia Romo. My parents and grandmother still live in Degollado, Jalisco.

Thank you,
Esther Hernandez Lopez

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Dear Esther Hernandez Lopez,

I don’t have my dna results posted, but the people you found, AC, OC, and Patricia Romo are closely related to me. I am curious as to how closely you are related to each one of them. How close of a cousin does Ancestry predict?

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Tue, 2017-05-23 00:32 | Permalink

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My work on Carlo Lomellini is extensive. My work up to this point on Luis Lomeli is not as extensive and is more speculative as there are more possible people that can be our Luis Lomeli. At this time there are three possible Luis Lomelin, two with a mother surnamed Spinola, a third that is also from the Iberian peninsula. The third one is a recent discovery.

When I posted the family tree on possible Luis Lomelin, I stated that I was "trying on a Glass slipper" on possible Luis Lomelin's. Any work on Geni that shows Luis Lomelin's ancestry is just someone copying my speculation and falsely posting it as fact. There is still much research to compile on Luis Lomelin.

There are three men married to Maria Lomelin, a daughter of Luis Lomelin and Maria Olmo. Are there three marriages for one Maria Lomelin y Olmo?

I have confirmed that Maria had two marriages but still looking for more evidence of the third marriage.

Here are the marriages:
Francisco de la Cueva y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"

Juan Villaseñor y Patiño de Herrera married to "María Lomelín "hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"

Diego de Barrientos Ribera y "María Lomelín hija de Luis Lomelin y Maria del Olmos"

I only know of three daughters of Luis Lomelin and Maria del Olmos. Does anyone know if they had more children?

Rick A. Ricci

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Hola Richard:

Esas familias vivieron en Querétaro.

Don Diego de Barrientos Ribera era el justicia mayor de Querétaro a principios del siglo XVII y existe un retrato de él y de dona María Lomelin, su mujer.

La familia de Doña María vivía en Querétaro en esa época.

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N537-58F : 12 December 2014), Luis Lomelin in entry for Luisa Lomelin Del Olmo, 04 Mar 1606; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWFTVW; FHL microfilm 247,920.

"México bautismos, 1560-1950," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N8D3-64B : 12 December 2014), Luis De Lomellin in entry for Ana De Lomellin Del Olmo, 09 Aug 1618; citing Queretaro, Queretaro, Mexico, reference 2:RWG19R; FHL microfilm 247,920.

Relación entre las familias del Olmo y Espíndola:

Hacia 1570 pasó a nueva España Doña Ana de Espíndola, presentándose como viuda del conquistador Francisco de Avendaño (Mendaño) conquistador de Nueva Granada, para estar con su hijo Francisco de Avendaño. Traía a sus dos hijas María de Espíndola (Avendaño) y doña Ana de Espíndola (Avendaño). Al poco tiempo María se casa con Juan Muñoz (Ramírez de Coy) en Puebla y luego pasan a Querétaro, doña Ana se casa con Francisco del Olmo.

Estas familias se desplazaban porque eran parte de una red mercantil en el camino real.

Saludos

Marcelina

Te recomiendo visitar el artículo sobre la Hacienda de La Laja en bisabuelos.com ya que los descendientes de Doña María y Don Diego fueron propietarios de dicha Hacienda.

Comment

Hola Marcelina,

Si tengo mas hijos de Luis Lomelin pero me faltan muchas piezas. Los Espindola viene de la Familia Genovez "Spinola" que ya tenian mucha relacion familiar con Los Lomellini. De los "Del Olmos" no tengo mas informacion. Los Avendaño es una familia conversa que viene de "la Casa de David".

Gracias,
Ricardo A. Ricci

Comment

Hola Richard:

Creí que era Aben Dana, de la tribu de Dan.

La familia Ramírez de Coy y Alfaro Bravo de Lagunas era representante mercantil en los virreinatos del Duque de Béjar y Marqués de Gibraleón. Los Espíndola (Spínola), los Olmos, los Avendaño, etc. son familias asociadas y comisionistas de la red de distribución de productos.

No tengo identificados a los Lomelin como parte de esa red, pero muchas familias genovesas como los Spínola tenían representaciones en Sevilla y vivían en el mismo barrio "Calle de los Genoveses".

Marcelina

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2017-03-26 12:44 | Permalink

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Dear Becky,

Last week Veronica told me that you were a member of Nuestrosranchos. I was happily surprised by the news and racked my brain trying to remember seeing your name in posts. It wasn't until I did a little investigating that I discoverered that you, as "visitor", had originally asked about Carlo Lomellin. If it hadn't been for your question I probably would have just kept on researching the Lomellini in Spain, Portugal, and Italy without posting some of the information.

As you know by now, I have tremendous amount of information on the Lomeli / Lomellini family.

Yesterday I took a look at your mom's ancestry and collected some information, (baptismal records, marriage records and census records.) I also pulled birth records from the civil records to make sure I was researching the right people.

Hopefully during Easter break I can find time to put a package together for you and send it through regular mail.

Please tell everyone in the family that they are in our thoughts and prayers,
Rick

Published by prettycool – Sat, 2016-10-01 01:26 | Permalink

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I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Carbajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended from her through this line.

Comment

Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.

Ronnie

________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?

I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named
Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter
named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de
Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.

Comment

please cancel my nuestros ranchos account permanently due to health issues.. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: General [mailto:general-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Reynoso
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 8:53 AM
To: general@nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: Re: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?

Hola , I too descend from Augustin Gomez de Mendoza a several times.

Ronnie

________________________________
From: General on behalf of prettycool667@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:25 AM
To: general@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Descendant of Lucas?

I believe Rodrigo de Carbajal and Juana Lomelin also had a daughter named Josefa de Cabajal. She was married to Jose Leal de Ayala. They had a daughter named Maria Leal de Ayala Carvajal and she was married to Augustin Gomez de Mendoza. I am descended to her through this line.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2015-01-03 22:07 | Permalink

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We keep repeating that the Lomelin of Mexico come from the Lomellini from Italy and that is correct for many, many centuries. But I have found that the branch that I have gone furthest back on leads right back to what is today Portugal and Spain. Back to the Visigoth kings of the Iberian Peninsula.
The Lomellini have a line that goes back to Rechila, the Suevic King of Galicia of the fifth century. His mother was the daughter of Wallia, King of the Visigoths. This line leads to the middle of the first century where documentation ends with Berik, King of the Goths.
R.A.Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Mon, 2015-03-30 14:05 | Permalink

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In our research of Luis and Carlo Lomellini it seemed as we had little information to work with. But that is not so. We have gathered many little pieces that placed together like a jigsaw puzzle have helped us identify the possible and probable parents of the these two men. Some highly respected historians and genealogists have repeated the claim that they were brothers. We do not know where they got this information. These historians have not provided primary resources that we may inspect. We respected this claim but we realized that none of the present genealogists have seen or have any knowledge of a primary source to support this claim. Neither do we have any primary source to disprove this claim so we needed to proceed in our research as if it was possible that they were brothers, but also looking at data as if they were not brothers.
By looking at all the information that we have on these two men we were able to see that by separating our search into two directions we were able to use what we know about each one to identify their possible and probable parents.
Some of the information that we had of these two men was the same. They also had individual differences. The information that they share is first that they descend from the Lomellini family from Genoa with the patriarch, Vasallo Lumello from Meda Lumello (Vasallo was repeatedly named Consul of the Republic of Genoa). Another piece of information that they share is that they descend from the branch of the Lomellini that was heavily involved in businesses involving trade, shipping, and banking.

We researchers spent many years looking for the parents of these "brothers". We spent many years failing to find their parents. It wasn't until we brought up the possibility that they were not brothers that we could focus even more on the differences of Luis Lomellini and Carlo Lomellini, and there are differences.

Since most of us know that we descend from Carlo Lomellini the search shifted to his ancestors, putting aside Luis Lomelin for the time being.

The branch of the Lomellini family that was head and shoulders above the rest of the Lomellini family in trade, banking, and shipping descended from Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro. We have the direct line from Napoleone to Vasallo Lumello. From what we heard about them descending from a family involved in trade, shipping and banking it was logical to begin our search with Napoleone's descendant, Marco Lomellini, since he was a powerful businessman with many connections to the separate Lomellini branches. Through him we were able to connect with many of these branches.
Napoleone Lomellini makes it easier for us genealogists by placing conditions in his testament and will that insist on his directives be followed for many generations. Napoleone insisted that the consequence for not following his directives would be forfeiture of his inheritance. The person next in line in the genealogical table would then inherit and become executor. Actually three executors were named in the directives with two out of three making the decisions. Some decisions were not left open to interpretation by the executors. These decisions were made by Napoleone Lomellini. He placed some property in a trust that was to be shared by family members and never to be sold. He also left some assets to be used to help those in need. He left many assets to his children with specific directives to be followed. One of these directives involved keeping track of his descendants. This directive has contributed mightily to our research.

The Lomellini family testaments, wills, business contracts, genealogic family trees have great resources that I have mined looking for golden nuggets.

Looking through Napoleone Lomellini's descendants, Carlo Lomellini son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia stands out as a candidate to be our Carlo Lomellini. Lots of little details brought together help reinforce making him a prime candidate as our Carlo Lomellini. Three of these details I will go into here.
1.) The persistent rumor of a BIG trading family, This detail is a given as he descends from Napoleone Lomellini. This family had palaces that still exist today and have been converted to Luxurious hotels.
2.) That Carlos family had something to do with slavery. Porzia was Vincenzo Lomellini's slave before he married her. We have this documentation, even the date that she baptized converting from a Muslim to Christianity where it states that she is Vincenzo's slave. In later records she is identified as first slave, then wife.
3.) That as he was identified in a primary source provided be Steven Hernendez, that he was originally from " de reinos de Castilla y Genova" just like our probable Carlo Lomellini and his family identified themselves, from two city-states. The two city states were allied during the time that we believe Carlo Lomellini was born.

As other little details are collected they seem to support this claim that they are one and the same. Yet we must remember in the back of our minds that many highly respected historians and genealogists claimed that they were brothers. Those of us that have benefited greatly from the immense works of of genealogists like Dr. Rito Romo Franco, Mariano Gonzalez Leal, Jaime Holcombe and Guillermo Teresa de Tovar tread carefully when discussing little mistakes in their voluminous work.

Next, we add Luis Lomelin to our discussion. Luis Lomellini ran in more of an elite aristocratic circle than Carlo did. Though Carlo was educated and showed some success in in his business endeavors, Carlo was more of lower upper class compared to Luis Lomellini who married one his daughters to the elite upper class, the Villasenor Orosco family.
If we are to consider that maybe Carlos, who had an elite upper class father, Vincenzo and a mother, Porzia, from the lowest of the low classes would find it advantageous to come to the new world to enjoy the benefits of the status of the well known Lomellini family while also not disclosing that his mother was from the opposite end of the social classes. He would probably just name his father Vincenzo Lomellini and not his mother. If Carlo did this and our Luis Lomellini is Luciano Lomellini Spinoza(1), Carlo's 4th cousin maybe people came to be believe they were brothers because Luciano Lomellini Spinoza also had a father with a similar name as did Carlo, Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini. This Luis descended from the elite upper aristocratic class from both parents, not just one like Carlo. This Luis would feel very comfortable associating with the Villasenor Orosco families which our Luis did. His daughters married well. This does not seem to be a stroke of luck. The circumstances dictate that Luis himself must have run in pretty high circles. This Luciano Lomellinis family and Carlo Lomellinis family did have connections through other close family members, along with connections to Marco Lomellinis family who took after his great grandfather Napoleone Lomellini.

After putting this scenario together after so many years of work I fell that we had come up with two great candidates for Carlo and Luis Lomellini.

We are still haunted by the past assumption by historians and genealogist that they were brothers. Does this explanation that both Carlo and Luciano Lomellini have a father named Vincenzo Lomellini satisfactorily explain why historians and genealogists thought they were were brothers. I have a very extensive collection of genealogical data that most likely contains all possible Carlo and Luis Lomellini. Up until yesterday, I had not found any Luis and Carlo Lomellini brothers near the correct time frame. After investigating this possibility more thoroughly, I originally thought thatThe only Carlo and Luciano Lomellini siblings that I have found are born too late by many decades. Their siblings records helped date them. At least this is what I thought after looking at the dates provided. Many months later, and more investigations, it seems that the dates provided were not birth dates and that there is a possibility that Carlos and Luis Lomelin were brothers after all.

It is not as solid a conclusion for Luciano Lomellini. There are many Luciano Lomellini that need to be investigated. There were many Carlo Lomellini but after much research, I could eliminate them one by one until there were only two possible candidates. I will do the same with the Luciano Lomellini, eliminating one by one those that could not possibly be Luis Lomelin. This will be more difficult as we have less information on Luis Lomelin than we did on Carlo Lomelin. What we should take into account with Luis Lomelin is why did the historians think that they were brothers. Taking this identification into question seems to narrow the field but also includes Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) because even though they are not brothers, the fact that Carlo Lomellini (son of Porzia) and him share a father that has Vincenzo in their name. I call the father of Luciano Lomellini Spinolai(1) Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini and Carlo Lomellinis father only Vincenzo Lomellini because he was mostly known as Vincenzo and I saw only one record that also added "Paolo".

Taking into account all the information that we have presented so far, I see only two possible candidates for our Carlo Lomellini, and many possible candidates for Luciano Lomellini, though I believe that Luis Lomeli is either Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) or Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2). We cannot discount the pair that are brothers yet.

If Carlo and Luis Lomeli of Mexico are brothers than they have to be Carlo Lomellini (2) and Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)
They are the sons of Giacomo Lomellini and Paola Spinola
Girolamo Lomellini is the son of Giovanni Battista Lomellini and Lucia
Giovanni Battista is the son of Giacomo Lomellini and n. Crivella Della Spezia
Giacomo is the son of Domenico Lomellini and Bastiana de Saulo
Domenico is the son of Oronasio Lomellini and Peretta Vivaldi
Oronasio is the son of Damiano Lomellini and Battina Squarciafico
Damiano is the son of Onofrio Lomellini jr. and Romanella de Marini
Onofrio is the son of Onofrio Lomellini (Lumbello) Sr, and Luchina Pansano
Onofrio Sr. Is the son of Lodisio de Lumbello and his second wife Catarina Barbavari
Lodisio is the son of Riccardo de Lumbello + Catarina
Riccardo is the son of Oberto de Lumbello + Angela
Oberto is the son of Ansaldo da Lumello
Ansaldo is the son of Vasallo da Lumello

It comes down to only two possible Carlo Lomellinis for our Carlo Lomelin. Carlo Lomellini(1) was probably born c.1570, Carlo Lomellini(2) we don not have a specific birth date, only that the documents that name his siblings and his nephews and nieces place him as being alive in the early 1600's. Carlo is the youngest in his family. Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2)is the oldest in this family. I had originally ruled these brothers out, but went back for a second look. I ruled them out but went back again. All the document dates given do not specify what the dates mean. After researching Battilanas book, I have come to the conclusion that they may fit in the time frame based on what I have on Carlo and Luis Lomeli . This Carlo would actually fit better with the later 1584 birthdate. This Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) would be closer to the 1570 date as I would pu him as about 10 to 15 years older than his younger brother Carlo, the tenth in this family. There is no story of slavery to go with this Carlo Lomellini(2). These Lomellini brothers do not come from the richer Lomellini branches so this Luciano Lomeli Spinola (2) would of had to become rich on his own and not through inheritance. I have also not found any business contracts involving this Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2) to explain him becoming rich and our Luis Lomeli from Mexico was extremely wealthy.
Wealth wise Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) fits the bill as he descends from the wealthiest branch, the descendants of Napoleone Lomellini, as does Carlo Lomelini(1) even though Carlo also descends from the wealthier branch, his fathers choice of wife must have rubbed his family the wrong way and he would likely not have inherited as much money. Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1) and Carlo Lomellini (1) (son of Porzia) descend from Napoleone Lomellini so their grandparents lived in the Lomellini Palaces. Marco Lomellini is from a time much later than Napoleone, about 150 years later when he seems to be the wealthiest of all the Lomellini.
R A Ricci
This information is from my Book with a working title "mygenes2000". I have a copyright based on what I have written already but have not published it as I am editing it and proof reading the contents. Any information used from should reference me, the author. I am required to add this statement to stop anyone from later claiming that I took their material without referencing them. Titles cannot be copyrighted and I have not decided on one but needed a working title to submit my chapters for the copyright. I have called my work mygenes2000 in reference to my symbolic and biological contributions to my family tree. My only daughter was born in 2000.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-02-01 19:37 | Permalink

Comment

The Lomellini family, due to its high social class, business matters, education, and family traditions, left a vast amount of documents that record their lives and family connections.
The clues that I started off with were clues that seemed to revolve around Marco Lomellini who was a businessman who moved back and forth between Genoa and Spain. His descendants also moved back and forth. Marco had a lot of contact with Lomellini s from Genoa to Portugal. Gian Baptista Lomellini (aka Battista Leomelin), Bartolome Lomellini, Cosme Lomellini, and Baptista Lomellini were the Lomellini that left many descendants in Portugal that today use the surname Lomelino. As usual there was intermarrying of cousins between Marcos descendants and other lomellinis. There were three Battista Lomellini s living at the same time in Madiera, Portugal A daughter of Marcos married a cousin surnamed Lomellini so I had believed that the line could have come from his daughter. This sent me looking into all the Lomellini lines connected to Marco.

I found many Carlo lomellinis, most died at a young age. I found two Carlo Lomellini that lived at the same time as our Carlo Lomellini
The first Carlo Lomellini candidate did not go to New Spain, and therefore, could not possibly be our Carlos Lomellini . This Carlo Lomellini was a knight of the order of St. John Malta. He was the son of Bonifacio de Lumbello and Nicoletta Marini.

The second Carlo Lomellini that was born at the same time as our Carlo Lomellini that I have identified as a possible candidate has a genealogy that goes to the 4th century. It was well known that his ancestor, Vasallo Lumello, was illegitimate but his father is identified. Vasallo's mother is the one that is not recorded, at least in my documents. This possible Carlo Lomellini is not a descendant of Marco Lomellini but Marco was the thread that led me to finding Carlo.who was born in the 1570's to early 1580's( before 1586) Carlo is a close relative of Marco Lomellini. Many people looking for our Carlos lomellini's parents mention that their family history includes stories about their ancestor being involved in the Slave trade. If this possible Carlo is the right one that we are looking for, than everyone is in for a surprise because his mother, Porzia, is the slave of his father, Vincenzo Lomellini. A record distinctly names her as HIS slave when she is baptized on 5/April/1551 (she had been raised Muslim).[musulmana convertida al cristianesimo] Carlo Lomellini 's mother is considered to be from a low social class. Carlo Lomellini 's father comes from the highest social class.

Genoa occupied the island of Tabarka near where the Lomellini had a grant of the coral fishing from the Ottoman Turks. There was a strong jewish presence on the island along with the Muslims. It was not uncommon for the upper classes To take some of these inhabitants to Italy as slaves. When the word slave is mentioned, many people have images of slaves being whipped every day to do hard labor and although this did occur it was not common practice in Italy in the 16th century. The Italian high upper class would take slaves to be their house servants and not hard labor. Their work load and living conditions were comparable to other peasants of that time, in some cases better. Both peasants and slaves had it tough.

Moving to New Spain would have been advantageous to Carlo Lomellini where he would still carry the status of his family name and also be able to be quiet about his mothers pre-marriage social standing. Another record does say that although she was originally a slave, Vincenzo Lomellini married her. Vincenzo Lomellini(aka Lomellino) is the son of Giacomo Lomellini (b abt 1484 son of Tobia Lomellini and his second wife Giorgietta Gentile) Tobia is the son of Giacomo Lomellini Lomellini and Battina Grillo. This Giacomo is the son of distant cousins Tobia Lomellini and Franca(Francesca)Lomellini ( see next paragraph for her Lomellini line to Vasallo) Tobia is the son of Tobia Lumbello and Orietta. Tobia is the son of bennedetto Lumbello and Gioffredina Benedetto is the son of Ansaldo Lumbello and his second wife Francisca de Gualtieri. Ansaldo is the son of Oberto Lumbello and Angela. Oberto is the son of Simone Lumbello and Giulia. Simone is the son of Ansaldo Lumello. Ansaldo is the son of Vassallo da lumello, consul of Genoa.

Getting back to the wife of Tobia Lomellini, Franca (Francesca) Lomellini (Lumellino), daughter of Nicolo Lomellini (Lumbello)and Luchina Lercari Nicolo is the son of a Napoleone Lumbello (Lomellini) and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro, Napoleone is the son of Leonello Lumbello (Lomellini) and Caterina. Leonello is the son of Pietrino Lomellini (Lummello) and Tomasina. Pietrino is the son of Simone Lumbello and Giulia Simone is the son of Ansaldo Lumello the son of Vassallo da Lumello, consul of genoa.

There are two Franca Lomellinis with a father named Nicolo Lomellini. These are are not the same people and are distant cousins.

Napoleone and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro have a son named Carlo Lomellini that is signore de Ventimiglia, command. de la flotta genovese. He was born in the early 1400's and his marriage and children are well documented. This Carlo Lomellini passed away in 1435.

This Vassallo da Lumello is the ancestor to the Lomellini, Lumello, Lumbello, Lomellino, Lomelin, and Lomeli families. He descends from king hunno velphio bayern (born c. 385) king of the Suebi (Allamani) tribe of western Germany. The tribe called themselves Suebi but foreigners called them the Allamani tribe. Many genealogists and historians have Mistakenly referred to them as two tribes , or as the Allamani as a branch of the Suebi. A son of king Hunno became king of Bavaria. A descendant of king hunno went to Italy and his descendants became kings and princes of Lombardy.

One of these princes married Theodora, daughter of Leuthard II and Grimildis de Paris. Leuthard II was the son of Beggo de Paris and Adelheid ( aka Alpais, Alpaida, Adelaide). Adelheid is either daughter or granddaughter to Charlemagne. The world renowned genealogist Christian Settipani states that Adelheid is Charlemagnes daughter but some other genealogists (including Flotard from the 10th century) state that Adelheid is charlemagnes granddaughter through his son Louis le PiEux. There are 2 Adelheids(Alpais) The argument is which of these two Alpais does Theodora descend from. If you go by Charlemagne and his descendants traditional naming practice then Christian Settipani has the stronger argument. But Flotard wrote his genealogy in the tenth century and had access to primary sources.

Vasallo da Lumello descends from this Theodora, descendant of Charlemagne. This Theodora is nicknamed "daughter of Charlemagne" has been mistaken by many genealogists as actually being her daughter. I repeat, she is not his daughter, though she actually descends from him and is named after her aunt, Charlemagne's real daughter Theodora.
I can post this tree, generation by generation on another date.

This line is only important to nuestrosrancho members if this second Carlo Lomellini is the same person as our Carlos Lomellini in New Spain. if these two are one and the same there would be little documentation among the descendants as they would try to hide Porzias pre-marriage social class. The documents may name only Vincenzo Lomellini.
I recently found a document, just like I had predicted, of a daughter of P. Vincenzo [Paolo Vincenzo] Lomellini and Porzia, naming only her father and making no mention of her mother.
Another interesting fact about this possible Carlo Lomellini is that through his father, he is related to the Marini family who also left descendants in Nochistlan Zacatecas and Jalisco. More endogamy amongst the first families of Zacatecas and Jalisco in Spain before coming over and in new Spain.
I keep getting asked about my Lomellini research so I decided to share part of my work. Some of Carlo 's siblings have been named in the documents but they do not claim to list all of Vincenzo s children. I have not found Luis Lomellini listed as his sibling though this does not mean that he is not one. I did not know until about two years ago that I also descend from Luis Lomellini so I had focused most of my research looking for Carlo Lomellini. I am going to go back and reread all previous documents to see if I missed any information that would help track down Luis Lomellinis parents. I also have many unread documents.
Jaime Holcombe mentioned that Carlos and Luis Lomellini were brothers, but I do not have information on his sources. I would like access his source to look for more clues.

There are many documents that refer to the Lomellini family but my research is not complete, it is a work in progress in the unraveling of the family tree. I do not know when I will publish the book since I still have much to add to it. After all this research, I can understand some of the Italian that I read, and the more I read, the more I understand it. What I do not understand, my neighbor translates for me. He is Italian. My book will provide sources for my information . Much of my work comes from a treasure trove of Italian documents that were collected and kept in a family library. The Lomellini left many family records. they believed in genealogy. They left many legal documents such as wills and business applications and transactions. There are many books in public libraries, and on the internet that will validate my research.
R. A. Ricci

Comment

Very interesting information. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you, Becky Lomeli Ruiz.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-04-19 14:39 | Permalink

Comment

On this previous post dated February 01, 2014 I listed only two Carlo Lomellinis alive with only one possibly being our Carlo Lomelin. There was a third Carlo Lomellini that I had originally thought was from a totally different time frame which would make him an impossible candidate but further research showed that the date I was originally working with turned out to not be birth dates. This Carlo Lomellini (2) does have a brother named Luciano Lomellini. Please check on another post of mine titled "are Carlo and Luis Lomelin brothers?" For more information on these two. In that other post I have included their descent from Vasallo Lumello.

R.A.Riccii

Thee information in this post is part of a book that is copyrighted by me. Any use of this information should reference its author.

Comment

I have recd many emails asking me about any new news on my research on Carlos Lomelin. The good news is that I have continued my research and found a little more information but the bad news is that I have had to put my work aside lately and will not be able to finish a book by the end of summer. I will add that the window for the brothers Carlo Lomellini(2) and Luciano Lomellini (2) continues to shrink. Important and very specific information of a nephew of theirs makes it unlikely that they are our Carlo Lomellin and Luis Lomelin. Other information(dates of close relatives) also are taken into consideration.

The probability that Carlos Lomelin is the same Carlo Lomellini (1) son of Vicenzo Lomellini and Porzia is increasing as the window closes on Carlo Lomellini (2).

R A Ricci

Comment

Hello Mr Ricci .....My name is Alejandro Lomeli. I am curious as to what the status of your book is. Ive been following your replies on here about Carlos and Luis Lomellini and am really looking forward to reading your work. I descend back 10 generations to Carlos Lomellini. Best Regards, A.Lomeli

Comment

Hello Alejandro,
I believe that the information that I have discovered on Luis (Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) is the last puzzle piece that I needed to finally Name with conviction the parents of Carlo Lomellini. The book could be finished right now if it was only on the descendants and ancestors of Carlo Lomellini. But research of Carlo Lomellimi’s Ancestors has provided much information on the branches of the Lomellini family that went to the Iberian Peninsula (Spain and Portugal) before coming over to the Americas. The research has provided valuable ancestral information on Luis Luciano) Lomeli (Lomellini) and a famous cousin of Carlo Lomellini’s great grandfather.

The book will also include descendants of Luis Lomeli, Carlos’s fourth cousin. I am still working on Luis Lomeli’s descendants. Luis’s descendants are just a relatively recent addition to my research as in the past I had only focused on how Miguel Hidalgo Costilla and I descended from him. This information on Luis is important as it lays to rest the mistaken belief that Carlos (Carlo) and Luis (Luciano) were brothers. Although Carlo Lomeli and Luis Lomeli were only fourth cousins, they were part of a small circle of Italian families on the Iberian Peninsula that intermarried often, and they had second cousins in common. That means that their fathers had first cousins in common, and both of their families were very close to the other two Lomellini branches of the family on the Iberian Peninsula. In fact, there were quite a few in the family in which both parents were surnamed Lomellini. Three of the Lomellini branches were so very closely related before arriving on the Iberian Peninsula that they could be considered part of one bigger branch while the fourth branch was not as closely related before their arrival,, but they intermarried often with the other Lomellini once they came over, even though this fourth branch primarily resided in Portugal. Even though I wrote primarily resided, the families traveled often due to business interests between Genoa, Spain, and Portugal. They also traveled often throughout the Mediterranean and through the English Channel as they moved goods. It was only after decades that the families settled permanently as they enjoyed thinking of themselves as residents of different city-states. Over the centuries, The Iberian peninsula Lomellini branches developed into two separate branches, one in Portugal (Lomelino), and the other in Spain (Lomelin).

Thanks,
Rick A. Ricci
Source: Mygenes2000

Comment

Did you ever find documentation of Luis Lomellini's parents? My family tree shows that I am a descendant. I know you said your book focus more on Carlo, but I was wondering if you had found any new information about Luis and his lineage. My ancestors settled in Tamazula Jalisco and in tracing the Munguia side it led me to the last names Coria and Lomellini.

Published by almadegollings – Thu, 2016-07-14 14:14 | Permalink

Comment

Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?

Comment

Dear Alma,

I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres

Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza

Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.

Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres.

Geronimo and his spouse Matiana (Martiana) were related through the Gonzalez de Hermosillo.

The last name was not Lomeli. It was Lomelin. Carlos Lomelin was Carlo Lomellini in Italian.

I have much more information on these lines.
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci

Question:
Martiana Lomelini Gavilan
Submitted by almadegollings on Thu, 2016-07-14 17:14.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?

Comment

Dear Alma,

I forgot to add that Martiana was also known as Matiana de Torres. The "de Torres" was from her maternal grandmother, Francisca de Torres. Jerónimo and Martiana baptized a daughter where Martiana used her maternal grandmother's surname as her own.

When baptizing another child she is surnamed "de Hermosillo". I have numerous children for Geronimo and Martiana though I don't know how many total children they had.

//////////////////
Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán)
Submitted by R.A.Ricci on Thu, 2016-07-14 22:13.
Dear Alma,

I have her as Matiana (Martiana) Lomelin y Gonzalez de Hermosillo (Gavilán), daughter of Jose Lomelin y Hurtado de Mendoza (bap. 22/Apr/1640) and Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres

Jose is the son of Domingo Lomellin and Juana Regina de Mendoza

Domingo Lomelin is the son of Carlo (s) Lomelin(i) and Maria Benavides y Cortes.

Michaela Gonzalez de Hermosillo y de Torres is the daughter of Francisco Munoz de Cabeza de Hermosillo and Francisca de Torres.

Geronimo and his spouse Matiana (Martiana) were related through the Gonzalez de Hermosillo.

The last name was not Lomeli. It was Lomelin. Carlos Lomelin was Carlo Lomellini in Italian.

I have much more information on these lines.
I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci

Question:
Martiana Lomelini Gavilan
Submitted by almadegollings on Thu, 2016-07-14 17:14.
Dear A. Ricci, I am fascinated by your account of the Lomelini's and I too am trying to write a book on the Gonzalez Hermosillo, but like you, it is taking a long time. I have been doing my research for 6 years now and keep finding mistakes, so I go back to stage one. My connection to the Lomeli's is: Geronimo I, born 1669 in Jalostotitlan, was married to Martiana Lomeli Gavilan and I am trying to find her ancestors. I love doing this and should have been a genealogist.
My E-mail is: almagollings@hotmail.com
Have you published your book?

Comment

I have seen her being considered a Jewish slave I have not seen her represented as a Muslim "[musulmana convertida al cristianesimo]" Do you have the baptismal document that says she was a Muslim that converted?

I want to make sure my records are correct and proof of their claims. Thank you so much. 

 

Published by Erik Andrés Re… – Tue, 2014-01-14 07:36 | Permalink

Comment

Though we can not assume anything yet regarding the origins of Carlo e Luigi Lomellini -we do not even know how they are related-, here is an article about a member of the Lomellini lineage:

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/leonardo-lomellini_(Dizionario_Biog…

Here is what I consider of genealogical interest:

Leonardo Lomellini born ca. 1510, son of Girolamo di Tobia and Brigida di Pier Francesco Lomellini. His wife was Bianca Grimaldi Oliva di Gerolamo. He had 5 daughters: Faustina, Brigida, Maria, Geronima, Maddalena and only 1 son: Giacomo who died in 1594 leaving no descendants.
The article also mentions his business ventures in Spain. He died ca. 1581.

There is another -the same?- Leonardo Lomellini in New Spain who had a commercial contract with Hernán Cortés in 1542. Perhaps Carlos and Luigi are related.

The article also mentions his patrimony valued at 18.750 lires and compares it to the greater patrimony of two other Lomellini: Bartolomeo Lomellini and Augusto.

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini/

The article above mentions that the family had 7 Dogi of Genoa; an Angelo Lomellini, author of a relation of the fall of Constantinople, two cardinals, etc.

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini_(Enciclopedia-Italiana)/ This article mentions a Vassallo di Lumello as the origin of the Lomellini family in 1137.

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-02-22 21:02 | Permalink

Comment

It is true that Vassallo di Lumello is considered the origin of the Lomellini family. This is because Vasallo Lomellini 's descendants were the first to be surnamed Lomellini. Often when someone is considered the origin of a family it is because the line stops there but that is not the case here. Vassallo Lomellini' s father is well documented. Vassallo Lomellini was an illegitimate son of Rejnerius Vassallo. his mothers name is the one that I cannot find. Rejnerius Vassallo is the son of Auberto II di Vassalllo 3rd signore di Lavigno.

There does not seem to be much interaction between Auberto II other sons and grandchildren with Vassallo Lumello. . Auberto II Vassallo's other sons and grandchildren lived and left many descendants in Milan while Vassallo di Lumello's family lived and left descendants in Genoa. Auberto II Vassallo is the son of Vasallo Vasallo (many of descendants took his name)

Auberto II Vassallo 's ancestors are well documented for many generations. This Auberto ii descends from Prince Manfred III of Lombardy, Comte D'Orleans (c 770-836) (sometimes the numbering of the Manfreds is confusing because there was so many of them and different historians have numbered them differently) and Theodora nicknamed "daughter of Charlemagne". The descent from this wife of Manfred is clear though I am still working on whether she is daughter, granddaughter, or great granddaughter of Charlemagne. Both Manfred III (Manfred I) and Theodora are related as they both descend from Pepin II (aka Pepin of Herstal) (aka Pepin the middle), son of Ansegisel and Begga. There are also many other family relationships through Charlemagnes mother, and his wife Hildegarde. Theodora's nickname has caused much confusion with many genealogist because they take her nickname literally. Others state it is not a nickname and that she is Charlemagnes daughter but not Theodora but a sister of hers with a similar sounding name. Charlemagne had an aunt Theodora(Theodrada) daughter and grandaughter, and a great grandaughter of the same name. Many genealogists have argued over this point, one side arguing that she is a daughter with the other side arguing that she is a great granddaughter. After reading their arguments and taking into account dates I believe that she is one of the grandchildren that Charlemagne took in and raised as his own. I will continue doing research to clarify this contention.

Auberto ii grandfather, Auberto I Vecelli's nickname Is Vasallo which his descendants took as a surname. the nickname came from his position as vassal to his brother Bongiovanni II conte de Vercelli who took the surname Avogadro. I am still looking into why Bogiovanni did this. I am curious because I remember Avogadro from chemistry class. Many of Bogiovanni II Avogadro descendents took this last name. I am curious to find the connection between Bogiovanni Ii and Lorenzo Romano Amedo Carlo Avogadro, conte di Quarenga e Cerreto, the founder of atomic and molecular theory. Amedeo's father Filippo Avogadro( count, lawyer, and senator) and his mother Anna Maria Vercellone both likely descend from Bogiovanni's ancestors. Filippo Avogadro is said to be descended from a long line of lawyers from the noble house of Avogadro and Vercelli but I do not have the names.
R.A Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sun, 2014-02-23 09:38 | Permalink

Comment

To Leon de Tejada
You stated that we cannot assume anything in regards to Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. We are not just guessing. We are gathering facts and looking for all the data that will guide us to the identities of Carlo and Luis(Luciano ) Lomellini. You are contributing to this search. You are right in guessing that they may be related. This Leonardo Lomellini that you mention is the son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini.

This Leonardo Lomellini is a first cousin to our Carlo Lomellini's father, Vincenzo Lomellini.

Vincenzo's father Giacomo Lomellini and Girolamo Lomellini are brothers, sons of Tobia Lomellini and Giorgietta Gentile.

Right now We do not know if the two Leonardo Lomellinis are the same person. There was another Leonardo Lomellini married to Maria Lomellini, daughter of Marco Lomellini Lomellini This Leonardo Lomellini is the son of Pier Francesco Lomellini (son of Giuliano Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini) and Maria Lomellini (daughter of Giacomo Lomellini)
Marco Lomellini had another daughter that also married a Lomellini. His daughter Andreola Lomellini married Lorenzo Lomellini son of Giacomo Lomellini and Battina Grillo. This Lorenzo is brother to Tobia Lomellini, Carlo Lomellini's great grandfather.
Whichever Leonardo Lomellini it is, there is a relatively close relationship to Carlo Lomellini.
Please continue to post anything you find.
R A Ricci

Comment

The two possible Leonardo Lomellini are both alive during the same time period and both related to Pier Francesco Lomellini, one his son and the other is his grandson through Pietros daughter. At least One of these two Leonardo Lomellini is a trade merchant that provided black slaves to new Spain(Mexico). The Leonardo Lomellini ( son of Girolamo Lomellini and Brigida Lomellini - daughter of Pietro Francseco Lomellini) that is the grandson is the one that is positively identified as a merchant having residence in Castilla so he is the most likely Leonardo Lomellini that provided the slaves to the new world. He is also Vicenzo's first cousin ( the Vicenzo Lomellini that is father to Carlo Lomellini (1)). This Leonardo also had daughters and only one son (that did not leave descendants) and that would explain the continuation or transfer of this business to his nephew who later tried to monopolize this business. This was a different nephew, not Carlo Lomelin.
The Leonardo Lomellini that is the son of Pier Francesco could also have been a merchant as his father in law was a big time merchant who also had business interests in Spain and Portugal.
I have been able to identify whom I believe is the most likely Luis Lomelin as a member of a branch of the Lomellini family that had established residency in Castilla.This Luciano Lomellini has a brother that is also identified as being from the Lomellini branch that settled in Castilla and is merchant involved in The slave trade. I have also found more circumstantial evidence that also increases the probability that I have also identified the correct Carlo Lomellini. However, I have not found any documents in Mexico that positively identify them as being the same people.

The information that I have gathered on Carlo and Luis Lomellin continues to slowly build and point towards their probable identification.
R.A.Ricci

Comment

I finally found a Luigi Lomellini in the 15th century but he was born to early and can't be our Luis Lomelin that goes to Nueva Espana.

The little bits of information that I do find point to Luciano Lomeli Spinola (1) being Luis Lomelin

1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancestors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini. [
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + 2nd wife Novella Cicala But possibly from 1st wife (I did further research but don't have the info in front of me and I don't recall which one was the mother)
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola

This Luciano Lomellini 's family is the Lomellini family that is found living in Castilla and is one of the Lomellini branches that is involved in the slave trade. Luciano's nephew is involved in the slave trade with permission from the King of Castille. Everything that I find on this Luciano Lomellini adds to the probability that he is our Luis Lomellin.

Adding all the information that we have about Carlo Lomellini we can see why people may have mistaken them for brothers. They both came from an Italian Lomellini family living in Castilla, they both had a connection to slavery, Luis's nephew was a slave trader and Carlo's mother was a slave before his father married her. They both had a father named Vicenzo Lomellini Even though they were distant cousins (4th cousins) their families were in contact with each other through their associations with Marco Lomellini, their relative. Marco made good use of his relatives to employ them in his many business ventures. Marco also brought his wife's family into his business ventures. Luis Lomellini Spinola was also related to Marco's wife through his mother Catarina Spinola and his great grandmother Pometta Spinola.

R A Ricci

Published by Peredo – Fri, 2014-02-28 21:27 | Permalink

Comment

Carlos Peredo

To León de Tejada et al

I just found in PARES a few records that I´m almost sure are related to the Lomellinis we are talking about but you can only find them searching for "Comelín"; and precisely, there are one or two records about a Leonardo "Comelin", I think that´s de son of Girolamo di Tobia that you mention in your post.

There´s another interesting record about "El magnífico" Benet Comelín doncel genovés mercader (I think in Barcelona) in a legal battle against another mercader genovés (image not available)

And there are one or two more documents mentioning some "Comelins"

Now, about the same time frame in which Carlo and Luis Lomelín lived in New Spain, there were some others with the same last name, does any one of you have some info about them?

I mean, for instance, there´s a Giovani Lomelín mmarrying 25-oct-1592 María Ramos, could he be the same Juan Carlos Lomelín that married María Cortés Benavides about 1609 ?

There´s Josepe Sánchez Lomelín who married Petronila de Soria ca 1584 and they baptized at least the following children in Pachuca :

Joseph 18-ago-1585
Manue 30-ene-1620

There´s also Agustina Lomelín marrying ca 1615 in México City Manuel del Castillo Villafañe;
María Lomelín who married ca 1605 the Captain Diego Barrientos Ribera Alcalde Mayor
who through their gandchildren Buenaventura and Cecilia connected with the Castilla Peralta y Rivadeneira, one of the most prominent families of that time and certainly "Royals" through the "Castilla" name.

Enough questions for today, hopefully we´ll have a more complete picture of this lastname both in Spain and in Mexico.

Regards

Comment

Carlos Peredo

I post here a line concerning one of those Comelinis I told you about in my last post.

"
13. Procura atorgada pels notaris de Tarragona Nicolau Rossell i Agustí Frexa a favor de Gaspar Spinola i Giovanni Comelino, mercaders genovesos residents a Barcelona (1542-08-21)"

As you can see, it involves two Genovese merchants living in Barcelona.

Would you agree with me that they made a mistake and that the last name in reality was Lomelín ?

Comment

I do not recall seeing Comelino seeing in any business deal with the Lomellini or Spinola but I might have overlooked it thinking that it was a graphical error. I agree with you that it is probably a mistake but we now must be on the lookout to see if this name comes up again. The Lomellini had many business deals with the other prominent families from Genoa that concerned interests outside of Genoa and in Barcelona, Castile, Aragon, Portugal, and Corsica. The Lomellini had multpple business interests throughout the Mediterranean.

If Comelino is not a graphical error than maybe it could be a variation of Lomellino in Basque.

You brought up a question regarding Maria Ramos and her husband Lomellini. At one time, Jaime Holcombe wrote that Carlo Lomelin and this man were the same person. We need to see if we can find his notes and see why he made this conclusion. Jaime Holcombe would include notes detailing his sources throughout most of his immense genealogical work but he did not provide sources on his information on Carlo Lomellin so we do not have any idea where he got this idea. In the beginning of my research I accepted his conclusions as facts but it wasn't until I was able to remove my research from his conclusions that I was able to focus on finding the Carlo Lomelin married to Maria Benavides. I do not know if Jaime Holcombe changed his mind on the Lomelin since I was only going on his earlier submissions to the Mormon library.

R A Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-03-08 20:07 | Permalink

Comment

To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.

Thank you
R A Ricci

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-03-08 20:10 | Permalink

Comment

To Leon de Tejada
Your post on Leonardo Lomellini and a business contract, along with a lead from Steven Hernandez, and information already in my possession, led me to go back and research an associate of Marco Lomellini y Lomellini. This has led to an interesting discovery that will finally lead to a completed and published book before the end of the summer. I am in the process of getting a copyright with an outline naming the chapters content and the first half of the chapters already written. I have all the information to complete the book. Once I get word from the publisher, I will provide details as to its content and availability.

Thank you
R A Ricci

Published by mendezdetorres – Mon, 2014-01-13 13:45 | Permalink

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It came to my attention two years ago that the Lomelín who in reality are the Lomelini family were one of the 7 principal houses of Genoa. I remember once, even a good colleague, D. Mariano González Leal reported certain documents that existed, but I am no professional in the italian language. I have found some using google books and other sources. Look up "Lomelini" in the search engine under books, you will find lots of genealogical related items in italian especially in the middle ages. One thing is certain our ancestors Carlo Lomelini and Luigi Lomelini were natives of Genoa and arrived in New Spain. Carlo settled in Nochistlán and I believe if I recall correctly Luigi made his way to Hidalgo. I hope this helps in some way. There truly is so much yet to be discovered about our ancestors and lineages. Documents to be read, analyzed, transcripted, published, preserved, etc.
Daniel Méndez de Torres Camino

Comment

Lomellini (o Lomellino)

Buon giorno a tutti,

Lomellini (o Lomellino). - Famiglia genovese, di origine forse lombarda, la cui potenza mercantile ed economica risale al sec. 12º (il capostipite, Vassallo, fu console del comune nel 1137); si affermò per l'attività bancaria nel sec. 14º e poi per la redditizia pesca del corallo, avendo ottenuto dalla Spagna l'esclusività per l'isola di Tabarca, perduta solo nel 1741, quando l'isola passò in possesso del bey di Tunisi. Tra i membri più notevoli di questa famiglia, che dette a Genova ben sette dogi (Giambattista, 1533-34; Giannotto, 1571-72; Giacomo, 1625-26; Giambattista, 1646-47; Stefano, 1752; Agostino, 1760-61; Giuseppe, 1777-78), si ricordano: Leonello (v.); Angelo, autore di una importante relazione sulla caduta di Costantinopoli (1453); Benedetto (1517-79), cardinale; Goffredo, ecclesiastico e attivo rappresentante della Repubblica genovese a Roma, come appare dal suo carteggio (1559-99); Giovanni Girolamo (m. 1659), altro cardinale; Giacomo, che ebbe parte notevole negli avvenimenti del 1746.

www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/lomellini/

Arrivederci,
Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

La famiglia Lomellini di Genova

Efectivamente, los Lomelín de Nochistlán eran originalmente la famiglia Lomellini di Genova, una de las siete familias más nobles y principales de la República de Génova, familia que ejerció el oficio de “Doge di la Repubblica”, como decir el Presidente, en múltiples ocasiones. Los Lomellini originalmente provinieron de La Lomellina “una regione storico-geografica, sita nella zona sud-occidentale della Lombardia compresa tra: il Sesia a ovest, il Po a ovest e a sud, il Ticino a est e il Basso Novarese a nord.”

Presentemente hay Lomellini en Italia, España, Portugal, México, Brasil, y en otros lugares, pero bajo varios rubros diferentes: Lomellini, Lomellino, Lomellina, Lomelín, Lomelí, etc.

Para poder remontar la genealogía antigua de esta familia, va a ser necesario, saber y leer los documentos originales en italiano. Como yo domino el idioma italiano, puedo leer y hacer búsquedas específicas sobres sus personajes, biografías, hazañas, historias, y datos. Este libro contiene la raíz troncal del linaje entero del apellido. “Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova” escrito por el señor Natale Battilana
http://books.google.com/books?id=wdA7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA257&lpg=PA257&dq=fam…

Entre las páginas 176 y 221 (del libro digitalizado) está la narración histórico-genealógica de los Lomellini. Descendemos de un hombre llamado Vassallo da Lumello, cónsul de Génova en el año 1197.

Pero también obviamente necesitamos conectar los Lomelínes mexicanos cono los Lomellini italianos. Tiene que haber documentos en AGI, PARES, u otros sitios.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Carlos Peredo

Hello All

I just came across a text that may lead to surprising genealogical news. It´s in the Book "Sevilla y sus mercaderes a fines de la Edad Media"
By Enrique Otte

I saw three paragraphs that may lead to well known families of "Los Altos", Aguascalientes,Zacatecas, etc.; here they are :

"...el 15-may-1506 Álvaro de Valladolid, Bernardo Grimaldi y Andrés de Carrión dieron poder a su compañero Bernardino de Isla para cobrar “de los señores del cabildo y regimiento de Sevilla….en 25-may-1506 el consejo firmó como siempre ante notario un asiento con Francesco Doria en nombre de Giuliano Lomellino por 2,000 cargas (de trigo) ...atuaron por parte de la ciudad …… los veinticuatros Alonso de Jaén de Roelas, Luis Méndez de Sotomayor y Pedro Suárez de Castilla, y el ... en la nao vasca Santiago, del maestre Martín Romo, 199 cargas"

Now, beginning with Bernardino de Isla and Andrés Carrión, I remeber in "Andariegos y Pobladores: Nueva España y Nueva Galicia" a brother of another Bernardino de Isla called Diego de Isla accuses in 1572 a certain Pablo Carrión of bigamy because Carrión was married in Sevilla and re-married in México. Pablo Carrion is said to be the builder of the "naos" of Legazpi´s expedition to The Filippines in which Carrión failed to participate. Couriously his second wife, after the divorce, goes to Filippines and there she gets married again.

I´m guessing that those "sevillanos" of the beginning of the XVI century have to be the previous generation of those "Isla" and "Carrión" that we see in "Andariegos"

And we see that those "sevillanos" were merchants at the same time that there was another merchant called Giuliano Lomellino who is represented in a commercial transaction by another "italiano" : Francesco Doria.

An Alonso the Jaén de Roelas is also mentioned and that brings to my mind those two last names that also appeared in México in the same región.

I´m guessing then : That the Lomelín of México are related to Giuliano Lomellino and that Bernardino de Isla was the father of the Bernardino de Isla that married Magdalena de Lavezares, whose son : Benito was the father of Magdalena de Lavezares and María de Isla.

Let´s recall that in the second half of the 15th century ther was another "italiano" living in Sevilla and that he is undoubtedly the ancestor of the sisters "Isla- Lavezares" , his name was Guido Lavezari a Genovese editor, grand father of Guido de Lavezares who lived in México several times and that finally was named "Virrey" of the Filippines.

What do you think ?

Carlos

Comment

En mis datos sobre los apellidos de Génova aparecen los apellidos Isola y Lavezzari. Parece que estos apellidos italianos luego fueron hispanizados con las ortografías de Isla (en italiano, Isola significa Isla) y Lavezares (porque en italiano, palabras que terminan en –i son plurales masculinas). Creo que estas familias distintas estaban ya vinculadas por ser genovesas y en el ámbito español se unieron. Ya en México por eso tan seguido aparece el apellido Isola como Isla o de Isla así nomás.

Solo una sugerencia para considerar.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Gracias portan interesante libro es genial también en estos documentos hablan de los Fregosi Fregoso o como Campofregoso y los Grimaldi que tenia entendido estaban emparentados pero solo pensé que era un mito o leyenda romántica .ahora y gracias a ustedes pues la duda podría despejarse claro que con la ayuda de un traductor hasta pronto.

Comment

Hello Steve,
I took a look at the book that you mentioned "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battliana.
This book has a lot of information on the Lomellini family, just like you said it would. If you take a look at page 192, [ page 16 of the Lomellini chapter], you will find the Carlo Lomellini, son of Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia, that Is possibly our ancestor, Carlos Lomellini. This page even corroborates the information that identifies Porzia as a slave and Vincenzo's wife {schiava, poi moglie}. The information identifying Porzia as HIS slave, prior to their marriage, is found in her baptismal record that is not part of this book.

Thanks for all the informative posts. They have provided valuable resources to my research.
I do not know if you remember me. I met you and Mike Guttierrez many, many years ago. That day that we met was supposed to be the day that I gave up genealogy. My intention was to share my information of over 20 generations with other genealogists that may want to take my info and add to it theirs. I was going to walk away from genealogy. I had not expected Mike, you, and the other people in that meeting to reignite the passion that I have for this hobby.
Thanks again
R A Ricci

Comment

Yeah I definitely remember you...It was the Orange Family History Center if memory serves me right. You had data on Toribio Hernandez de Arellano & Isabel Hurtado de Mendoza and a whole lot more. But I, like you also, have had my ups and downs, and ins and outs with genealogy. Sometimes this passion has to cede its place to other more pressing concerns of life, as with me over the past...oh say 3 years. But I too am rebounding and making a come back.

But in regards to our Lomelin/Lomelllini ancestry, when I downloaded the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana [download at http://books.google.com/books?id=wdA7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PR4&lpg=PR4&dq=Genealo…], and opened the PDF file I located the entire Lomellini chapter from page 479 to pg. 528 of 576. I read the introductory heading regarding the history and origin of the family and it was basically what has been widely reported. Carlos Lomellini is by default a descendant of "Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova nell'anno 1197".

You were spot on concerning the precise lineage from Vassallo da Lumello all the way down to the Carlo Lomellini were are suspecting based on the records of "gli carte nobiliari" is OUR Carlo Lomellini.

Based on what I read and what you had already presented you hit the nail right on the head. I think for once we may have something here people. The legend of the slave trade, or the "slave" rumor, is indeed a persistent family legend. What a coincidence that in the most trustworthy sources available on the matter point almost directly to Carlos Lomellini, son of Vincenzo Lomellin & Porzia, "schiava, poi moglie" (slave, later wife). From what I have gathered the "1587" that all the kids of Vincenzo Lomellin & Porzia - Carlo, Catterina, Livia, Lavinia, Isabella, and Gironima - have over their names, means they were all alive that year when they were mentioned in some family document or record, probably a last will and testament. So Carlo Lomellini was already alive in 1587, as were all his sisters. And sisters mind you, not brothers named Luigi nor Giovanni-Battista Lomellini. I have been asking myself...D'ove stanno questi fratelli d'il nostro Carlo Lomellini?

So the lineage you gave a while back with all those wonderful sounding Italian Genoese names is most likely our ancestral lineage. I have already begun the task of inputting the names and family connections presented by the 45 "carte nobiliari". The lineage that leads directly to Carlo Lomellin follows this course once you first download the book:

Introduction: pg. 479-483/576
Carte 1: pg. 483/576
Carte 2: pg. 484/576
Carte 8: pg. 490/576
Carte 14: pg. 496/576
Carte 16: pg. 498/576
Carte 31: pg. 513/576
Carte 32: pg. 514/576
End: pg. 528/576

In summary, the two lines of descent from Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova, to Carlo Lomellini are as follows:

1 Vasallo da Lumello, Console di Genova - Born: 1150 - 1160 in Lombardia, Italia. - Residence: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1198 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
. 2 Ansaldo da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1248 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..... 3 Simone da Lumello Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1253 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
........... +Giulia - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
........ 4 Pietrino da Lumello - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1287 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Tomasina - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Leonello da Lumello (Lenello Lomellini) - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1343 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................+Caterina Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............... 6 Napoleone Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................... 7 Niccolo Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
......................... +Luchina Lercari Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1430 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Domenico Lercari
...................... 8 [2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............................ +[1] Tobia Lomellini Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Tobia Lomellini Mother: Orietta
.......................... 9 [3] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[4] Battina Grillo - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
............................. 10 [5] Tobia Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................... +[6] Giorgietta Gentile - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia - Father: Stefano Gentile
................................. 11 [7] Giacomo Lomellini - Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................................... 12 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini Born: ca. 1540 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
.......................................... +[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" Born: ca. 1551
........................................ 13 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. - Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown

........ 4 Oberto da Lumello- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Aft. 1292 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.............. +Angela- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Unknown
............ 5 Benedetto Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
.................. +Gioffredina- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia ............... 6 Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
..................... +Orietta- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-
................... 7 [1] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia--
.........................+[2] Franca (Francesca) Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Father: Niccolo Lomellini Mother: Luchina Lercari
...................... 8 [3] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: 1465 - 1469 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
............................ +[4] Battina Grillo- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Died: Aft. 1480 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Father: Giorgio Grillo
.......................... 9 [5] Tobia Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Bef. 1518 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia
................................ +[6] Giorgietta Gentile- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Married: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia-Father: Stefano Gentile
............................. 10 [7] Giacomo Lomellini- Born: in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia.
................................. 11 [8] Vincenzo Lomellini- Born: ca. 1540 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia- Died: Unknown
.......................................+[9] Porzia "schiava, poi moglie" - Born: ca. 1551--
.................................... 12 [10] Carlo Lomellini Note: Carlo Lomellini (o en español, Carlos Lomelín); originario del reino italiano de Génova; pasó a Indias a los inicios del Siglo XVII, llegando a ser vecino de la feligresía de Nochistlán. Genearca de una vasta rama de la familia Lomelín (o Lomelí). Note 2: Él se casó con doña María de Benavides, española, hija legítima de N.N. (su identidad aun se ignora) y de doña Catalina Cortés, hija a su vez de don Gerónimo de Benavides y de doña Catalina Cortés. Born: ca. 1584 in Genova, Repubblica di Genova, Italia Residence: in Nochistlán, Zacatecas, México Died: Unknown

Based on your records, does this concur with what you have? What original documents or books have your referenced and cited? What are their titles, author, dates of publication? Do you possess copies of these records? Perhaps a random citation in a bibliography in one of those books helps unlock the mysteries even further.

What we further need to do is investigate in the archives of the Sagrarios de Guadalajara, Valladolid, y Ciudad de México to see if what documents exist that can irrefutably prove that this is the correct lineage of the Famiglia Nobile di Lomellini that became the vast Familia Lomelín de Nochistlán/Mexticacán and the rest of Los Altos de Jalisco. I'm still not 100% convinced that this is our EXACT lineage, we need proof undeniable. But it's the best we got and the furthest we have seriously gotten on this subject...so I'll take, for now.

Buona notte...Andiamo!

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Hello and you're welcome of course Rick.

My last message was directed to you upon recalling when we had met...that WAS you! Was it Orange or L.A.? It has been a while. I bet we have both been working on some BIG projects haven't we? I read you are putting together a book...can't wait to read it. As for me...I have several in the works, and I still need to find more documents and time to put it all together. Like our Lomellini lineage.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Published by ElCapitanPaco – Sun, 2014-02-02 21:31 | Permalink

Comment

I am organizing various source documents I have located regarding Carlo Lomellini and his connection to Genoa, and the noble Lomellini family, their ventures throughout the Mediterranean, and their roles as Dogi della Repubblica di Genova, and translating and transcribing Italian records so I can share them with Nuestros Ranchos. Please look for them in a new thread I will start elsewhere en Español.

Gracias por tus preguntas e interés. Muchas cosas nuevas van a salir a la luz sobre varios apellidos genoveses como Lomellini, Fregoso, Doria, Spinola/Espínola, Bocanegra, Lavezzari, Isola, y muchos más, en los historiales y archivos de Génova, España y México.

Steven Francisco Hernández López

Comment

Muchísimas gracias Paco, es muy amable de tu parte.I can't wait.

Sofia

Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) – Sat, 2014-04-19 11:35 | Permalink

Comment

A long time ago I worked on the family tree of Miguel Hidalgo. I found out that he descended from both Carlo Lomellini and Luis Lomellini. Through many sources I heard that Carlos and Luis were brothers. I would go on searching for their ancestors because I descend from Carlo Lomellini many times. I was concerned with Luis only as in how he would help me find the parents of my ancestor, Carlo, his so called brother.
The more I worked on this line, the more it became apparent that a long time ago historians and genealogist had stated that they were brothers and that this assumption had been handed down. Are they brothers? If they are not brother's, what could have contributed to them thinking that they were brothers? I believe that I have the answers to both questions. The third question I have is where did people get the date of birth, 1584 for Carlo Lomellini? I believe I have an answer to that question also. actually Steven Hernandez was the one that provided the answer to that question.
The lomellini family is not just any family. They believed in intermarriage with the other main families in genoa and kept many many records. One of the main reason for these records is that a lot of money was involved. the family had many major businesses in trade and banking. Some of the Lomellini wrote specific directions that property was not to be sold, but handed down generation by generation. Any one not following the directives of the will were disinherited and the next person in line would inherit. They were forced to keep genealogical tables as one of the conditions of these wills in order to comply with its demands. Both Carlo and Luis were part of the generations that had to be part of the genealogical tables or the inheritors were not complying. Compliance was mandatory if you wanted to keep your money. Both Carlo and Luis were known to belong to this illustrious family so their records have to be in the Italian genealogical tables. Including them was little effort. Not including them could and would lead to disaster if anyone found out and wanted to challenge you for not following the directives in the wills. The will specifically states that the inheritor LOSES his inheritance to the next person in line if the directives are NOT followed.

I looked all over for a Lomellini that had sons named Luis and Carlo. I rejected many possible because both brothers were not listed. Once I was able to separate the two, I just focused on Carlo since he was my ancestor. Any notes that I had made regarding Luis were put aside since he was not my ancestor. If you have been paying attention to the previous posts, you know that I believe that I have found Carlo's parents and they are Vincenzo Lomellini and Porzia. Due to Carlo's mother premarriage social status, I predicted that when we find records on Carlo in Mexico that they may only list his father Vincenzo. Once I made that statement and went back and looked at all the records that I had put aside, a light bulb turned on, and I think I now know why Carlo and Luis were thought to be brothers.
Like I stated before, my priority was finding Carlos parents and Luis was not that important to me if he was not Carlo's brother. A couple of years ago, thanks to Claudia Casillas and her dispensas, I found out that I too descend from Luis Lomellini . Many people in Los altos de Jalisco also descend from him, they just don't know it yet.
Now that I believe that they were not brothers, I went went back and found a Luciano (Luis in Italian) Lomellini that I had rejected because he did not have a brother named Carlo. His age and everything fit but since he did not have a brother named Carlos his notes were put aside. I believe that this Luciano is our Luis and the reason that people had believed they were brothers was that they both were identified as being sons of Vincenzo Lomellini. Luciano is the son of a different Vincenzo. Since Carlo most probably identified himself using only his fathers name than people most likely assumed that they descended from the same Vincenzo Lomellini.
Even though we have not identified records in Mexico identifying Carlos and Luis parents we know that at one time in the past they had to exist and if we keep looking they may turn up one day. I bet Carlo's will only name his father and Luis's will name both his parents.

Thanks to Claudia Casillas, without her I would not have found the record that I had been looking for since 1985. Thanks to Steven Hernandez for encouraging me to go back to my notes to provide sources. This led to the discovery of my notes on Luciano Lomellini.

The records that we have on Luis and Carlos do not specify a birth date. The dates that we do have state that they were alive at a certain date and we know the dates of some their activities.from these dates we can come up with an approximate date, revising it as more information is accumulated. We have two dates showing that Carlo and Luciano were alive 1578 but looking at their parents ages they were most likely born in the late 1560's or 1570's with a possibility of 1580's. I believe that until we have more information, I feel comfortable giving Carlos a birth date c.1570 and Luis a birth date earlier than this, c.1550. This is not set in stone. People see a genealogical table and automatically assume that it is the birth year. Steven Hernandez pointed out that all of Vincenzo and Porzias children had the same date next to them. I believe that he correctly recognized that this date is of a record identifying them like a will and that they were all born prior to this date. They could have been quintuplets, and they could all of been born this year but most likely not. We must then look at their parents information and try to figure out the most likely date of birth. Sometimes when Two dates are given without identifying what the dates mean it is because two conflicting reports are given as two when they are born or he was born between those years. You have to look up other information to guide you on dates meaning if they are not specific.

Luciano Lomellini descends from two families that were in the upper class of the republic of Genoa.
Through his father, Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini he descends from Vassallo d Lumello, consul of Genoa.
Through his mother, Catarina Spinola, he descends from Guido Spinola, consul of Genoa

First the Lomellini line
1. Vassallo da Lumello, Consul de Genoa
2. Ansaldo Lomellini
3 Simone Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Giulia
4. Pietrino Lumbello (Lomellini ) + Tomasina
5. Leonello Lomellini + Catarina
6. Napoleone Lomellini + Teodora di Negro di Giorgio. [these are also Carlo's ancsetors] they are 4th cousins
7. Goffredo Lomellini. [Goffredos brother Niccolo is married to the half sister of the Calvos, Luchina Lercari] [another brother, Battista Lomellini has a grandaughter who marries a businessman that, along with Paulo di Negro, had a business transaction involving sugar with Christopher Colombus.]
8. Luciano Lomellini + Pometta Spinola
9. Goffredo Lomellini + I believe his 2nd wife Novella Cicala I don't believe he had children with his first wife, I will confirm
10. Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini + Catarina Spinola
11. Luciano Lomellini Spinola
This Luciano is a fourth cousin to Carlo Lomellini, whether he is or isn't Luis Lomellini is only speculation at this point, recognizing the fact that our Luis is most likely in the available genealogical tables and we are having the Luis 's try on the glass slipper. The fact that they both descend from a Vincenzo Lomellini adds a twist to the story that goes far in explaining why they thought they were brothers. Our Luis Lomellini also married his daughter to the upper class in Mexico.

Many of Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Negro descendants used the surname Lomellini. Some Female descendants married cousins that kept residences in Portugal. This line in Portugal used the surname Lomelino Some actually kept three residences, because some had a residence in Castilla. This is why records naming place of origin sometimes listed two different city-states. Marco Lomellini Lomellini descended from separate branches of Lomellini. Marco Lomellini Lomellini married Bianca Spinola so Luciano Lomellini Spinola was related to Marco Lomellini children thru both Marcos parents and his wife Bianca.
One of the branches was the main branch that settled in Portugal. Marco had business interests in Castilla, Portugal, and Genoa. Marcos had a residence in Lisbon, Portugal. Marco Lomellini was held in high regard by the Portuguese royal court. Some of their descendants married their Lomellino cousin from Portugal. Cosmo Lomellino and Giorgio Lomellino Portuguese/Genoese brothers (sons of Bartolommeo Lomellini(Lomellino) that had residences in Madeira, Portugal, married Lomellini cousins from Genoa that descended from Napoleone Lomellini and Teodora di Giorgio di Negro. They considered themselves from multiple city-states not just one. That is why Carlos Lomellini is listed in a record in Mexico as being from reinos de Castilla and Genoa. During Carlos lifetime, Genova was affiliated with Castile.
Many Lomellini records are written ' Gio Batta Lomellini '. but it is only an abbreviation For Giovanni Battista Lomellini They never called them Gio Batta.
Francesco Calvo, Marco Lomellini and Giovanni Battista Lomellino Lomellini ( son of Cosmo Lomellino) shared some business interests in Portugal. Francesco Calvo is related to the Lomellini. The Calvo children were angry when their widowed mother married Domenico Lercari. In these decades, the aristocratic widows were not supposed to remarry. Cattaneo Calvo never forgave her for remarrying and left her out of his will (except for a pittance which emphasized his displeasure). Their mother had least one child, Luchina Lercari, with her second husband, Domenico Lercari. Luchina Lercari married Niccolo Lomellini(see Lomellini line above) and are ancestors of Carlo Lomellini.

The Spinola line
1. Guido Spinola, console of Genoa
2. Oberto Spinola + Siballade (Sybil) Volta (daughter of Ingo II Della Volta + Giulia) Ingo II was very rich and had monopolies like Lomellini
3. Oberto Spinola
4. Guglielmo Spinola
5. Andreolo Spinola
6. Ozone Spinola
7. Antonio Spinola + Cattarina Caramella
8. Niccolo Spinola + Cattarina Paternoster
9. Giovanni Battista Spinola + Margarita
10. Cattarina Spinola + Paolo Vincenzo Lomellini
11 Luciano Lomellini Spinola(1)

One thing that I needed to evaluate was to check on available information on the time frame when Luis and Luciano lived.
This was the concern I had with Carlo and Carlos Lomellini. With Carlo, I felt uncomfortable with the supposed date that most people have for Carlos birth year of 1584. Though possible, I found that he had most likely been born 10 to 15 years earlier. Once Steve Hernandez provided information (documents showing his wife as a widow) reinforcing my claim that he had been born much earlier, than my concern was erased. Another document that helps the reinforce the claim is the document that Steven provided stating an origin of both reino de Castillo and Genoa. I had predicted such a claim in a post on this nuestrosrancho site a couple of years ago because our Carlo Lomellini's family considered themselves from both places. They had great pride in being from both. Most people do not claim an origin from different locations. This Lomellini family did. However, further research has raised a red flag. The dates given for Carlo Lomellini(2) that had caused him to be put aside as a possible Carlo Lomelin are not birth dates. The dates given on the rest of his immediate family are not necessarily birth dates. This opens the possibility that Carlo Lomelini(2) lived at the same time as our Carlo Lomelin in Mexico, and he has a brother named Luciano Lomellini Spinola (2).
The concern I had with Luis and Luciano Lomellini is again the time frame. I believed that Luis would have been born even earlier than Carlos Lomellini and was concerned about others dating him to be the same age as Carlo Lomellini. I am relieved to find out that everything still seems to fit. Luis was at least a decade older than Carlo, maybe even 15 years older. The more documents that I look at, the more Luis and Luciano were alive at the same time.

The more I find on Luis Lomellini, the more he looks to be a Luciano Lomellini Spinola. I say a Luciano Lomellini Spinola because there is another possible Luis Lomeli which I will name Luciano Lomellini Spinola(2). If the the historians and genealogists that claim Carlo and Luis Lomellini's are brothers are correct than Luis Lomeli has to be Luciano Lomellini Spinola(2) as he is the only Luis with a brother Carlo Lomellini. I will soon post their line.

From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line

"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue dueno de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de fortuna
Hubieron y procrearon entre otro hijos a
Pedro de Villasenor de Lomelin

I would greatly appreciate any information anyone may have on Luis Lomeli and his descendants. Any information may provide clues to identifying his place in the Lomellini family.

R A Ricci
This material posted above is copyrighted and as such, any reference to it should reference the author. This warning prohibits anyone else from claiming to have previously copyrighted this information and requiring their consent.

Comment

Hi Steve,
It was Orange County. Mike Gutierrez invited me to your meeting. Does this group still meet? I would like to get list of the people that I met at that meeting? Is there someone I can contact for information?
Rick A Ricci

Comment

Hello Steve,
Nice to hear from you. I really like the manner in which you presented the information on the birthplace of the lomellinis. I really liked the way you distinguished between Genoa and the republic of Genoa. Many historians and genealogists forget that the difference between the two is similar to Mexico D.F. And Mexico the country though the republic of Genoa was not nearly as big as Mexico. I have been guilty of this myself. Many different languages were spoken in what we now consider Italy. There were different languages spoken, like Spanish and tabarchino, in parts of the republic of Genoa. Italy was a bunch of city-states, they were separate kingdoms like Aragon, Pamplona, Leon, Castile in Spain before coming together. The republic of Genoa included communities outside the city of Genoa.
Getting my information was a long story in itself that would fill a book. A lot of the documents are from a private library and are not from a book. The major citation is my unpublished book since many of the documents that I reference are not published. These documents were in a private library for centuries in Italy. Theses documents are not completely original as now I see a lot of the same information in other documents and books like the one you recommended, "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" by Nattale Battilana. I wonder if they had the same sources or if one was the source of the other. It took some convincing to get access to them. I do not have access to them right now because the owners of the documents are very protective of their documents and are not allowing access to them as they are in the process of scanning and organizing the documents.

Another reference that I cite is "Napoli e Islam: storie de musulman schiava e rinnegati in eta moderna" by Giuliana Boccadano.
This book provides the information on when Porzia is baptized and that she belongs to Vincenzo Lomellini. The book also clarifies that "Porzia musulmana convertita al cristianesimo." Porzia was not black but you did not have to be black to be a slave in the 1500's in Europe and around the Mediterranean. One of Carlos distant cousins, Francesco Lomellini, also white, was actually taken as a slave while he was traveling in Turkey. Traveling was not always safe in those times. I saw the movie Captain Phillips last night, so I guess i can say it isn't always safe to travel in today's world. The Lomellini family was deeply involved in trade where family members would travel with the shipment of goods and make sure transactions were completed as planned.

I was not sure where to begin when I began my Lomellini research so I started off with the persistent rumors about Carlos Lomellini ancestors being businessman involved with slaves. I discovered that many of the Lomellini of the 14th through 17 centuries were businessman that liked to corner the market and discourage competition. they later went into banking with many of the Genoese families that intermarried. Some of the Lomellini men really stood out. One of these impressive businessmen was Marco Lomellini who had his hand in many enterprises and much contact with the Lomellini's from Portugal to Italy even though he was often based in the middle of the two, Spain. I went after everything that I could find on Marco Lomellini, Looking for info on him led me to these documents that were kept in a Italian family library for centuries.

Even though I used the 1584 date to guide my research because so many people cite it as Carlos's birth year, I now believe that we need to change this date to reflect the data provided. I believe that 1584 date is given in the belief that he had to been born at least by this date for his voyage to the new world in the early 1600's.
Even though the dates you give for Vincenzo Lomellini, Porzia, and Carlo Lomellini are all possible given the information we have on these people, I believe that these dates should be adjusted with the new data concerning Porzia.
I believe a birth date c. 1530 for Vincenzo Lomellin, a birth date c. 1540 for Porzia, and a birthdate c.1570 for Carlo Lomellini would be more accurate. Vincenzo is the owner of Porzia in 1551 so I believe he must have been at least 21 by then. Porzia is not an infant when she is baptized. she is a convert and has already been a practicing Muslim. If she was too young when Vincenzo took her in as a slave, I believe it would have been even more awkward to marry your slave if you took care of her from infancy. Let's make her at least 11 years old when Vincenzo has her baptized in 1551. Then even though it is possible for Porzia to give birth to Carlo Lomellini in her 40's, it makes more sense to give him a birth date c. 1570 when she would most likely be in her 30's. what do you think of this reasoning?
All of the other data you have is consistent with my records.
Looking forward to your input,
R A Ricci

Comment

To Steve

You are correct that we need to continue investigating the archives in the Sagrarios of Guadalajara, Valladolid, and Mexico City. However, I think that it is important to point out that the Valladolid Lomeli descend from Luis Lomeli and not Carlos. I believe that the Lomeli married to Pedro Villasenor Orosco and Francisco Villasenor in Valladolid descend from Luis Lomeli and Maria Olmos. Please let me know if your information differs from mine.
R A Ricci

Comment

Carlos Peredo

Rick

According to El Padre Ibarrola Luis Lomelín y su esposa María del Olmo fueron vecinos de Jiquilpan, Mich y su hija María casó con Juan de Villaseñor Patiño y ellos fueron los padres de Pedro Villaseñor Lomelín, el cual casó con Inés Fernández del Rincón; quienes tubieron a Juan Miguel de Villaseñor Lomelín, que casó con Elena Cortés Enríquez de Silva y esta última pareja fueron los padres de Joaquina de Villaseñor Cortés Lomelín, la que casó con su pariente Juan Gallaga Mandarte Lomelín y tubieron a Ana María Mandarte Villaseñor la mamá de MIGUEL HIDALGO Y COSTILLA.

Comment

That line is an interesting line that I have had the pleasure to research. But Hidalgos line doesn't connect to the masses in Los Altos. The line that I am most interested in confirming is Maria Lomelin Orosco descent from Luis Lomelin. This Maria Lomelin Orosco is the ancestor of many families in Los Altos de Jalisco. She is the wife of Francisco Villasenor. Is this Maria the daughter of juan Villasenor Orosco Patino and His wife Maria Lomelin?

From my what I have compiled on Hidalgo's line

"D. Juan de Viilasenor y Patino, bautizado en el Sarario de la Catedral de Valladolid el 12 de Julio de 1598
Padrinos: sus tios D. Francisco y Da. Beatriz Patino"
Fue due no de la hacienda la Lagunilla y condueno de la de Pomacuaro
Fue casado y velado segun el orden de la Santa Iglesia con
Dona Maria Lomelin y del Olmos
Originaria de Queretaro, hija legitima deli luster genoves D. Luis de Lomelin y de Maria del Olmo, personas de mucha distincion y nobleza y posedoras de various bienes de fortuna
Hubieron y procrearon entre otro hijos a
Pedro de Villasenor de Lomelin
.
These are Hidalgos ancestors. This description of Luis Lomelin fits what we would expect of a description of Luciano Lomellini Spinola (1) as he descends from noble lines from both his father and mother. Descriptions like this one is what one expects of a descendent of Napoleone Lomellini y Teodora di Giorgio di Negro and also from the Spinola families.

R A Ricci

Published by Denise Hernand… – Tue, 2016-06-28 00:06 | Permalink

Comment

Dear Mr. Ricci
I found record of a marriage of Dona Juana Patino Villasenor to Juan Vergara (?) Lisalde. Diego Ysla Heredia was a testigo and also noted as escribano publico for Valladolid.
The record is from 1628 Valladolid. Here is the link:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-5T9P-5C?i=263&wc=3NYJ-YWL%…

Familysearch Mexico, michoacan, morelia, sagrario metro matrimonios1623-42 image 264.

Juan Vergara Lisalde was not present, but was represented by another man.

Since you mentioned Juan Villasenor Patino, thought you might be interested. If you know how Juan and Juana are related, please post. And if you know of any connection to Juana de Heredia Patino (wife of cristobal sotelo moctezuma), or her heir, Lorenzo Patino de Vargas, please post.

Regards
Denise Fastrup

Comment

So far, I have found four mistakes in the Lomellini section of the book "Genealogie delle famiglie nobili di Genova" written by Natale Battilana

This book is an extremely valuable resource and these four mistakes seemed to have been made by misreading some documents and then placing a daughters name as the spouse or the father in laws name instead of the real spouses name. The good thing about Battiana's book is that the names can be cross referenced with other documents to get it correct.

There are also many omissions. Battilana's book is an incredible resource but any researcher relying solely on this book is making a big mistake. An example of an omission would be that Napoleone Lomellini had a wife before Teodora and at least three of the children are from her. Another example is that Marco Lomellini also had children from two women, one his wife and I am not sure if he was legally married to the other woman who was Portuguese and gave him two sons.
R.A.Ricci

History, Culture and General Discussion

Ancestors of Geronimo M. Reyes

Published by makas_nc –

There is a John Reyes who is not a member who wants to know who posted the genealogy of his family on the website. Does anyone want to take credit for posting the genealogy of "Geronimo M. Reyes"? I would like to put you and John together as you are probably cousins. But I can't seem to find a message with that title "Ancestors of Geronimo M. Reyes". Maybe its there and I just didn't find it yet so if anyone else with better tech savy would help that would be also welcome.

Joseph (email me please makas@nc.rr.com) 

Genealogy Research

Mexico Census

Published by apozolco –

Does anyone know why we can't access the 1930 Mexico census on familysearch?

 

Published by Peredo – Thu, 2025-10-02 16:56 | Permalink

Comment

Gracias por la respuesta, es una verdadera pena que el censo ya no esté disponible porque era una herramienta extraordinaria para iniciar investigaciones genealógicas.

Published by mralvarez314 – Fri, 2025-09-26 03:43 | Permalink

Comment

It's not just the 1930 census. Images of civil and parochial records from about the 1920s and later are also not available. I don't know why, but I suspect it's very likely related to privacy protection legislation that passed in Mexico earlier this year.

Genealogy Research

Ruiz Esparza names and titles in the 1500s

Published by lambchop48 –

When I cleaned up several generations on the Esparaza tree on Family Search to reflect the accurate relationships I was very careful to include the correct mother’s maiden name on each record which was especially important on generations with the same name, like Lope Ruiz Esparza Espinosa and Lope Ruíz de Esparza Diaz. However, the same Family Search user who had deleted the couple relationship mentioned on my previous post changed a number of the names, including some, but not all of the wives by adding long extensions like these: 

Lic. Lope Ruíz De Esparza Espinoza Sr. De Esparza de Galar y Zariquiegui 
Lic. Pedro Ruíz De Esparza Caparroso Sr. De Esparza de Galar y Zariquiegui - Lope Ruiz Esparza Espinosa’s son Martin Ruíz De Esparza Huici Sr. De Esparza de Galar y Zariquiegui - Lope Ruiz Esparza Espinosa’s father 
María de Larrasoaña Sra. Del Palacio de Zariquiegui – One of Martin Ruíz De Esparza Huici’s wives (Not Lope’s mother)

This extended version of the name was obviously taken from court documents like the example below that uses the name in the title with the added description in the Content of the summary, but this isn’t always the case. There are many court actions that only use Lope Ruiz de Esparza in both the title and Content of the court action.

LOPE RUIZ DE ESPARZA contra DOMINGO DE OSCOZ
Content: Lope Ruiz de Esparza, señor de los palacios de Esparza (Galar) y Zariquiegui, vecino de Pamplona, contra Domingo de Oscoz, residente en el barrio de Santa Engracia de Pamplona, sobre retrocesion de la venta de una viña junto al degolladero de Pamplona de Antonio de Espinosa, su primo carnal, por 47 ducados, alegando derecho de tanteo como pariente mas cercano.

My question is whether those of nobility were referred to as Lord or Lady of a domain from birth, or only after the death of the father? It doesn’t make sense to me that three generations of Esparza men who may have been alive at the same time would all be referred to as Lord of Esparza de Galar y Zariquiegui. It seems that, for genealogy purposes, using the mother’s maiden name after the paternal surname distinguishes one generation from another sufficiently. Family Search offers another area called Other Formation/Alternate Name where name variations and additional information can be added.

Anyway, I looked into what Family Search recommended for Name entry and following the guidelines changed the names back to the ones I had originally used with paternal and maternal surnames. I included Source documents that stated ONLY the name without the extended description in the title of court actions, suggested that name variations could be added under Other Formation/Alternate Name, and actually added the extended information in that section. Again, the user changed them all back to the extended names. I’m not to get into a dueling match with this user and make any more changes. Meanwhile, I’m going to a Family Search seminar in June that deals with how to maintain accuracy in trees and deal with those who are making it difficult, so I will bring up my issues then. 

Thanks for any insight that can be offered here about title and name traditions in Spain during the Middle Ages and in genealogy, in general. 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2025-09-05 11:05 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Travis,

I took another look at Bartolome de Mesquita.  His wife Lucia Torres doesn’t show any Silva ancestry.  In looking for Bartolome de Mesquita’s ancestry. I would first search his name with a mother surnamed Silva.   Next I would replace the Mesquita with Silva and look for a Bartolome Silva.   Mesquita may be a location from where he was from and took it as a surname replacing Silva.  Amesquita is a variation of Mesquita so also search with that spelling.  

Good luck in your research,

Rick A. Ricci

Published by Travis – Tue, 2025-09-09 08:33 | Permalink

Comment

Hello Rick,

Thank you for the info and tips. I'll implement them during my searches.

I agree that the Silba/Silva is probably on Bartolomé's side. I charted 2 possible families to which he may belong. One of these families is documented with Converso affiliations. 

Our Gómez line features 5% Sephardic DNA according to ancestry (tested by a very close relative) and Bartolomé Mesquita and Luisa de Torres are ancestors about 7 times over (our family is descended from them through multiple children, sometimes multiple times). So I've been concentrating on the aforementioned converso Mesquita/Amesquita group.

I hope progress can be made as this couple represents such a large part of our family history. 

Thanks again. 

Best,

Travis

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2025-09-05 09:53 | Permalink

Comment

I found the post that I wrote that I referenced but it focused on surnames changes according to location. Here it is:


“Published by R.A.Ricci (not verified) - Mon, 2016-05-30 20:47 | Permalink

Change in surnames according to location given

Comment

Someone asked me to explain the change in surnames in the Ochoa-Garibay pedigree.

If someone here in West Los Angeles asked where I live I would say Mar Vista. If I was in Northern California I would answer Los Angeles. if I was in another state, let's say a state clear across the country on the eastern coast, I would answer California. If I was in another country, I would answer the United States of America. This is how the surname sometimes changed from one generation to the next for Spaniards in the 15th and 16th centuries. The surnames didn't always change permanently. This was a naming pattern in these basque provinces. Some families kept their same surname even if they moved around. Some other families changed their surname often. In some families everyone changed their surname if one person changed his surname, in other families, every sibling may have a different surname.

Juan Martinez de Uncella de Mondragon de Aramayona de Alava
Ivan (Juan) son of Martin residing in the church jurisdiction of Uncella in the Villa Mondragon, from the valley Aramayona, from the Alava province, Basque Country, Spain.

Iglesia de Uncella from the Valle Aramayona, provincia Alava,
Villa de Mondragon

Later! Ybarlucea and Garibay show up as part of the surname. We have Martin Ochoa Ybarlucea becoming Martin Ochoa Garibay. The change is Ybarlucea to Garibay, from the banks of the river where the fern grows in Elorrio (Ybarlucea) to the valley where Elorrio is located (Garibay)
The banks where the fern grows in Elorrio= Ybarlucea
Valle de Elorrio= Garibay
Provincia de Guipozcoa
Basque Country

I hope this helps,
R.A. Ricci”


The reason that I wrote this originally was to explain why many of the family members had different surnames from their siblings, parents, or other relatives.

Rick A Ricci
 

Comment

Hello Rick,

Thank you for posting this comment. Your modern parallel using Mar Vista, LA and CA is excellent. It helped.

Yes, 17th century Colonial surnames are challenging for a novice like myself but much more preferable - from a genealogical perspective - over Anglo naming practices, where these valuable clues are lost after marriage! 

Connected story: using the 1669 Padron of Santa María de los Lagos, I charted out the family of Juan Días Toribio and Inés de Abrego. Most of their children assumed the surname Días, but some daughters opted to occasionally use "Abrego." 

For almost a year I assumed that the "Antonia Rodrígues," who lived on the same Hacienda was a worker or servant. She is listed among the servants further down the list from the family. Later, I discovered her serving as madrina in multiple baptisms alongside her father "Juan Días Toribio" as padrino. 

I learned a lesson. Never make assumptions based upon surnames in Colonial records.

This brings me to a surname question:

What is the function of "Toribio" at the end of Juan Días's name? Toribio is a personal name. I have never seen it used as a surname.

If it's not a surname; why did he place it at the end of his name? To distinguish himself from another Juan Días?

Thank you. 

Published by Travis – Sat, 2025-07-19 18:45 | Permalink

Comment

Hi Dana, 

I'm going through a similar dilemma and settled on a similar solution. Thanks for your perspective. 

Everything is standardized today compared to the past so it's taken me a long time to get my mind around this. Even relatives who recently lived in Mexico don't understand naming customs from the colonial period.

Here's a question - not just for you - but for anyone who can answer: what about those with two completely different names?

Example: Ignacío (b c1630) son of Bartolomé de Mesquita and Luisa de Torres, was obviously named after someone, probably a relative, named Ignacío de Silva. So we have some records naming him Ignacío de Silva and others referring to him as Ignacío de Mesquita.

Thank you, 

Travis

Comment

Ignacio was probably named after a grandparent or greatgrandparent that was surnamed Silva. I have even seen a surname skip even more generations.   I few years ago I wrote about surnames in a post about the Ochoa Garbay family surnames.   I will look for it and add it here.

Rick A. Ricci

Genealogy Research

Parents of Joseph Padilla and María Eusebia López de Lara?

Published by Travis –

I'm looking for the parents of Joseph Padilla and his wife María Eusebia Lópes de Lara. They probably married before June of 1734 in either Jalisco or Guanajuato.

Joseph Padilla, noted as born in Cuarenta, Jalisco (date unknown) and died before 25 Jun 1746. He is the first husband of María Eusebia Lópes de Lara (born c1715 probably in León, Guanajuato). 

I believe, but cannot yet prove, María Eusebia Lópes de Lara is the daughter of Donato López de Lara (b. c1685 & buried 30 Oct 1751 in León, Guanajuato) and Agueda Juliana de Soto (Sotomayor y Aguilar?).

  1. María Eusebia Lópes de Lara (c1715 León?)

    1st marriage: bef. June 1734? Joseph Padilla b. Cuarenta, Jalisco d. bef. 25 Jun 1746
            1.1 Aguedas Juliana Padilla b. 1735 León, Guanajuato
                m. 5 Mar 1753 don Juan Antonío Muñoz de Xeres
            1.2 Joseph Marcelino Antonio Padilla b. c1739 Cuarenta, Jalisco
                m. 13 Aug 1757 doña María Antonía Muñoz de Xeres
                m. 10 May 1769 Antonía Victoria de Torres (India)
            1.3 Manuel Ciriaco Padilla b. 19 Jun 1739 Lagos bt. 28 Jun 1739 Lagos (Padrinos: Phelipe Lópes de Lara y Maria Theresa de Aranda)
                m. María Leonarda de Espinosa
            1.4 Marcos de Jesus Padilla b. 25 Apr 1741 Las Nazas, Jalisco
                m. 5 Jul 1767 Clara Silveria de Aranda
            1.5 María Josepha Padilla b. 31 Mar 1743 Lagos

    2nd marriage: 25 Jun 1746 don Joseph Muñoz de Xeres (son of Juan Muñoz de Xeres y Gómez and Ysabel de Aranda y Vanegas)
            1.6 José Segundo Muñoz de Xeres b. c1754
            1.7 Ana Petronila Muñoz de Xeres b. c1756
            1.8 Inéz Serapia Muñoz de Xeres b. c1758
            1.9 María Muñoz de Xeres b. c1759
            1.10 María de las Nieves Muñoz de Xeres b. c1760

Published by silvernblack – Sat, 2025-08-23 21:25 | Permalink

Comment

Per the marriage document of Eusebia Maria Lopez de Lara dated 1746 her first husband, Joseph Padilla, had been dead for 2 years and that former husband is buried at the church where she is getting married as stated therein.  

 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9392-VRSD-H5?lang=en&i=498

 

Note that per her marriage to Joseph Padilla he was from Queretaro.  https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/sources/GKRM-TB7

Comment

Thank you very much!

I have the record for her second marriage, but the record for her first marriage to Joseph Padilla eluded me. This is very helpful. 

Yes, after I posted my original comment, I came to realize, upon further research, that Joseph Padilla was probably not born in Cuarenta as later documents infer. This proves it. I can now refocus my search to Queretaro.

Our family is descended from Joseph and Eusebia's son Marcelino, and this information will help us immensely. 

Thank you again for your assistance. 

Published by R.A.Ricci – Fri, 2025-09-05 09:17 | Permalink

Comment

I have been looking to find a connection between the Queretaro Padillas and the Jalisco Padillas.   Hopefully this will help in my research of the Queretaro Padillas.


Thank you,

Rick A. Ricci

Comment

Hello Travis, 

I too would like to chart the relationships between the Padillas from these different areas.


Thanks,

Rick A Ricci

Genealogy Research

Address Help

Published by DavidVargas –

Hello, all!

I am hoping to get some help with the address in the following document, please.

page 242, record 5049.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPJ1-K36

record 5220.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GPJ9-JN3

I can make out house 607.  It's the street name that I can't quite make out.  Calle 44 <Something> Hidalgo.

I'm hoping to locate the nearest parish to search for baptismal records for the children of Hilario Lopez and Angela Morales.

Thank you!

Published by familias_bajio – Thu, 2025-07-17 12:48 | Permalink

Comment

David,

Up until the 1980's - 1990's, Guadalajara was divided into four sectors named Hidalgo, Juárez, Libertad and Reforma. Guadalajara is currently divided into 7 zones. Similarly Calle 44 was probably renamed since I was not able to find it in the current map of Guadalajara.

Best regards,

Austin Pérez

 

Genealogy Research
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