Joseph's DNA

I've introduced my knowledge to the subject as far as I can. I defer
questions on DNA to those more in the know than I.



Contact Gary Felix on the previously given website. All I know is that
if you find someone you think you are related to with a different last
name then you will need to compare their male Y DNA with the male Y DNA
of a cousin of yours with the same last name (of course doing all you
can to rule out individuals that might have been adopted).  That way
you will see if both sides merge into a common ancestor somewhere back
in history even if its 20 geneations ago.



this DNA thing is complicated if you don't have the time to devote to
it. . .unfortunately that describes me.



joseph







Alicia Carrillo wrote:

I had never heard it said gato por oso meaning a cat disguised
as a bear. Rather I have always heard it and used as gato por liebre,
meaning a cat in the guise of a hare. Different animal, same meaning.
 
Alicia



Emilie Garcia wro

Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

Esperanza,
 
Thanks so much for the information.  This really helps me with my research on my mother's side.  She was from that 500-year-old gene pool from Juarez-New Mexico.  What is that site?  Can you e-mail me the link at auntyemfaustus@... ?
 
 Thanks,
 
  Emilie Garica
   Port Orchard, WA.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: latina1955@aolcom
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave
 

I tried getting into the site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't.  Anyway here, in verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

 

RACIAL MIXTURE IN COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

 

Like California and Texas, the Spanish-speaking population of New Mexico was of diverse racial origins.  In the account below historian J. Manuel Espinosa, describes the emergence of that population and one example of its consequence, the

Ranchos 2

well I'm just so happy you asked that question. I sent out invitations
to Ranchos2 to every new member. Some accept the invite others don't or
there are other reasons for not being a member (hey maybe its moderator
error). Regardless of the reason all one needs to do is ask and an
invite will be sent to them. Accept the invite and I'll have to process
your request and you're in.


there is a link in the links area of "Ranchos" called "Ranchos2" (off
all things) and that will take you to a link that if you click on it
will take you to the files area of Ranchos2 (which by the way is
currently at 83%capacity, which means I might need to get my wife to
open up a briefcase of her own one day soon and have her donate it to
the Ranchos group to accomodate the non-genealogy stuff for the group).


the invite is on its way for you Natalie,

also there are a few others of you that are not members but if you're
happy not having access to Ranchos2 then I'm happy. If sometime in the
nea

Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

http://www.theblacklist.net/Afro-Mexicans.htm



latina1955@... wrote:

I tried getting into the
site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't.  Anyway here, in
verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was
inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

 

http://faculty.washington.edu/qtaylor/Courses/313_AAW/313_manual_cp_01.htm

RACIAL MIXTURE IN
COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

 

Like California and
Texas, the Spanish-speaking population of New Mexico was of diverse
racial origins.  In the account below historian J. Manuel Espinosa,
describes the emergence of that population and one example of its
consequence, the role of blacks and mulattos in the famous Pueblo
Indian Revolt of 1696

 

            Among the
colonists, those of predominately Spanish blood dominated the patterns
of social life and customs.  In the beginning there was clearly a
considerable number of Spanish-born citizens, with a handful of
non

Yndio Genizaro

David, thanks for the explanation of Indio Genizaro.  Yes, that is where I have seen the term, in the same place you saw it, while I was researching my mother's lines from Juarez (the former Paso del Norte)and New Mexico. My great-great grandfather from Senecu near Juarez had Piro blood (maybe where I get my coloring).  Maybe he was one that was "rescued" and given the Spanish surname of my mother. Many of the people I talk to tracing lines in that area also speak of a relative or two that were "adopted" from the Apaches or who had Apache mothers.  Very interesting.
 
You sound like one of my cousins in Las Cruces, New Mexico. When he found out about our Indian heritage, he became a war captain of the Piro-Manso-Tewa tribe and has tried to get federal recognition for the tribe. I will be posting my mother's trees to the Ciudad_Juarez group that Joseph started, so check it out.  I would also like to see your trees.  E-mail me at auntyemfaustus@hotmail.com.
 
Emilie Garcia
Port Orchard

Ranchos 2

Where can I find information regarding how to properly access the files 
in Ranchos 2? How does one become a member? Thanks for your help.

Natalie



Racial Classifications/DIGEST!!!

there was a lot of confusion and variation, it seems, with this race
determination. Its understandable since it was such a subjective
undertaking.



look in the "files" area of Ranchos 2 and you will find another list of
racial definitions which have Coyote being a certain percentage of Black



but thanks much for giving us this information as it will point out in
the literature how "unsure" the various determining individuals were in
their classifications:



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ranchos2/files/Racial%20Classification/



joseph



ps: ANYONE READY FOR THE DIGEST MODE???? let me know
if you want me to switch you!!!




latina1955@... wrote:

I tried getting into the
site, sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't.  Anyway here, in
verbose, is what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was
inaccurate - the term coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

 

RACIAL MIXTURE IN
COLONIAL NEW MEXICO

 

Like California and
Texas, the Spanish-speaking

Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

Wow, those charts and photos are mind-boggling.  I am really getting an education. 
 
The mixing of the races in Mexico has led to a particular typically Mexican look, I think.  My husband, who looks white (I call him viejo Gachupin pelon sordo) calls the typical Mexican the result of the Mestizaje.  Yet no two Mexicans could look more different than he and I, he 6 ft, me 5 ft; we could have been the Espanol and the Indian pictured in the photos. Yet I can trace both of our lineages back to the early 1700's in Mexico. 
 
 My Spanish-Basque friend said that when she met her Mexican-American serviceman husband in Pamplona (he looks like me) she was fascinated by his appearance.  She said she had never seen anyone with the planes of the face like mine and his.  In profile we have small noses in line with the chin and forehead, whereas she and my husband have the look of Europeans, yet different.  He has a large Roman nose with receded chin and forehead in profile and he is bald on top

Joseph's DNA

Someone else in the group said "gato por oso".  That is easier for me to say than "liebre".  I am not familiar with any Spanish sayings, unfortunately  It was all new to me.
 
   Emilie
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Alicia Carrillo
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Joseph's DNA
 
I had never heard it said gato por oso meaning a cat disguised as a bear. Rather I have always heard it and used as gato por liebre, meaning a cat in the guise of a hare. Different animal, same meaning.
 
Alicia

Emilie Garcia wrote:
So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I guess I am a surumata.  So, are you in the haplogroup for African-Black or for Moroccan-Berber?  What other haplogroups are you in?  All those numbers scared me.  How could I ever explain such a thing to my cousin?  Maybe the researchers are handing us a gato por oso?
 
Emilie




Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http

Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

I tried getting into the site,
sometimes I can get in, sometimes I can't.  Anyway here, in verbose, is
what I was remembering - unfortunately, my memory was inaccurate - the term
coyote refers to meztizo and Indian.

Esperanza

 

RACIAL MIXTURE IN COLONIAL NEW
MEXICO

 

Like California and Texas, the
Spanish-speaking population of New Mexico was of diverse racial origins. 
In the account below historian J. Manuel Espinosa, describes the emergence of
that population and one example of its consequence, the role of blacks and
mulattos in the famous Pueblo Indian Revolt of 1696

 

            Among
the colonists, those of predominately Spanish blood dominated the patterns of
social life and customs.  In the beginning there was clearly a considerable
number of Spanish-born citizens, with a handful of non-Spanish Europeans. 
By 1680 most of the population had been born in the province itself.  Over
the years, blood mixture was inevitable in an isolated community which lived as

Joseph's DNA

I had never heard it said gato por oso meaning a cat disguised as a bear. Rather I have always heard it and used as gato por liebre, meaning a cat in the guise of a hare. Different animal, same meaning.

 

Alicia

Emilie Garcia wrote:


So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I guess I am a surumata.  So, are you in the haplogroup for African-Black or for Moroccan-Berber?  What other haplogroups are you in?  All those numbers scared me.  How could I ever explain such a thing to my cousin?  Maybe the researchers are handing us a gato por oso?

 

Emilie





Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Yndio Genizaro

Based on the little I have read, "genizaro" (accent on i) is derived from the word Janizary.  That particular word has many different spellings.  It originally meant an infantryman in the Turkish army in the Middle Ages.  The Spanish royal academy's dictionary says that the word is used to denote any type of racially mixed person.  I have come across the word in the LDS records for la Villa de Guadalupe in El Paso del Norte.  The Spanish used it to denote a person who had been "rescued" from the Mohammedan faith and been made a christian.  In Nuevo Mexico the Spanish used the term when referring to abducted indigenous children who had been baptized.  The barbarians from Europe would invade communities which they believed were inhabited by "apaches".  The good christian citizens would kidnap children (murdering their families if they objected) and take them home to be baptized.  The children of course would be given a "better life" as servants or slaves of their captors.  I have two

Racial Classifications was Moorish or Slave

There's a folder for it in Ranchos 2.  I found a book that gave a little background and some pictures.  Here's the link, and definitely blow up the link of the page of classifications so it's readable:
 
 
Rosalinda


-----Original Message-----
From: latina1955@...
Sent: Jun 23, 2005 1:32 AM
To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ranchos] Moorish or Slave

I could be wrong (my memory comes and goes with this stuff called menopause - should be called memorypause), but I think coyote was a term used to describe the mixed blood of Indians and African. 
 
There was a chart (perhaps someone can recall it here?) that described the various labels placed on the mixture of "races" during the early part of the conquest, when race delineation was seen as important by the Spanish.  I'll keep looking for this chart, but in the meantime, perhaps someone else on the board has easy access to it for reference?
 
Esperanza



Yahoo

Moorish or Slave

face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

I could be wrong (my memory comes and goes with this stuff called menopause
- should be called memorypause), but I think coyote was a term used to describe
the mixed blood of Indians and African. 

 

There was a chart (perhaps someone can recall it here?) that described the
various labels placed on the mixture of "races" during the early part of the
conquest, when race delineation was seen as important by the Spanish.  I'll
keep looking for this chart, but in the meantime, perhaps someone else on the
board has easy access to it for reference?

 

Esperanza

Joseph's DNA

So, Joseph,  I couldn't make out a thing on your DNA results.  I guess I am a surumata.  So, are you in the haplogroup for African-Black or for Moroccan-Berber?  What other haplogroups are you in?  All those numbers scared me.  How could I ever explain such a thing to my cousin?  Maybe the researchers are handing us a gato por oso?
 
Emilie




Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Moorish or Slave

In matters of race in the church records from Mexico I don't think the people being recorded had any idea what was being put in the record for nationality.  I have in one family, Mejia from the District of Jerez, 5 children with 4 different nationalities listed.  Mother is listed as Espanol, father is listed as Indio. Their children are listed as 1. Espanol, 2. Mulato, 3, Indio, 4 Mestiso and 5. Espanol... I have to assume some children were darker than others so the scribe made the decision what nationality they were making the records unreliable as to nationality.  Also it would be to the advantage of the family to have a child listed as Espanol so I wonder if bribes were ever paid to insure the record would read Espanol.. just a thought.
Linda

Emilie Garcia wrote:
Joseph,
 
I guess what I meant is that an African slave, to me, was one like the ancestors of the African-Americans and Negroes of Brazil.  In facial features and body type they look to me like the

Moorish or Slave

Joseph,
 
I guess what I meant is that an African slave, to me, was one like the ancestors of the African-Americans and Negroes of Brazil.  In facial features and body type they look to me like the tribes found on the Ivory Coast or Gold Coast of Africa, and not like the North Africans (Ethiopians and Moroccans) that the Moors in Spain were descended from.  I heard of stories of Moors who came to the New World with the Conquistadores.  I didn't think they were slaves, more like indentured servants who could be freed.  I have seen the descriptions of people in the microfilmed records as Negro, Mulato, Mestizo, Coyote, and Yndio, but not in relation to anyone of my ancestors I could identify.  They were all (until 1821) identified as Espanol.  After 1821, there are no descriptions as to race.  In my family it is known that my mother's side had Piro Indian blood around her grand-father's time.  He was born around 1854, and my father told me that he was a Mestizo, even though he was not

DNA project

Hello Steve,

I don't think I would be able to explain it better than one of those 
ready made tutorials available online.

Take a look at a couple of links:

http://www.dnaheritage.com/tutorial1.asp (follow the series)
http://www.familytreedna.com/dna101.html

As you know, the Y chromosome has segments of genetic material that 
pass practically unchanged from father to son, except in those rare 
cases where a mutation occurs.  The numbers you ask about represent a 
count of the so called Short Tandem Repeats or STRs at specific 
locations in the DNA molecule.  When a mutation happens the count of 
STRs can increase or decrease usually by one count.  These mutations 
tend to accumulate over generations at varying rates which can help to 
calculate or approximate the "genetic distance" between two related 
persons who share a common ancestor. I don't know if I'm being clear 
enough so I'll stop here!  Anyway, read some of those documents online 
and then come back to share your thoughts

"tarayata"

Joseph,
 
You said not to ask, but now I will have to chase after this entry from the Ministry of Education of Peru?
Thanks so much for finding the word, anyway.  The research should keep me out of trouble for a while, since I have always wondered where Daddy got that word.
 
   Emilie
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Puentes
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5:52 PM
Subject: [ranchos] "tarayata"
 

[PDF] .XVND 3XULVXQ9,,,File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
helado” : Tarayata, palabra de origen aymara . Casi no puedo conciliar el sueño, los recuerdos invaden mi mente. inundándome de ternura infinita, ...
www.minedu.gob.pe/dinesst/ xtras/revista_kuskapurisun08.pdf - Similar pages

. . . don't ask me,

joseph


Emilie Garcia wrote:

Well, I guess I will never find out where my father got the word "tarayata".  He was always laughing when he said it, sort of like calling us "rascals" when we were rough-housing with him  He was not prone to name calling

"tarayata"

face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>

I just looked up "aymara" region, it appears to be a language spoken by
indigenous people in South America...hmmmm....I wonder, if there were any
"transplants" from South America to Mexico?


Aymara is the language of the href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aymara">Aymara people of the
title=Andes href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andes">Andes
. It is one of
only a handful of
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_languages">Native American
languages
with over a million speakers, and it is one of the
title="Official language"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_language">official languages
of
Bolivia and
title=Peru href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru">Peru
. It is also spoken
in Chile and
title=Argentina href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina">Argentina
.


Many linguists believe that Aymara is related to its more widely-spoken
neighbour, href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quechua">Quechua. This claim, however, is
disputed — although there are indeed similarities, critics say that these may
simply be the result of prolonged interaction between the two languages or an
title="Areal feature (linguistics)"
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areal_feature_%28linguistics%29">areal
feature
, not a shared origin.


The Aymara language is an
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflected_language">inflected language
,
and has a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_Object_Verb">subject-object-verb

word order

Moorish or Slave DNA

Hello,

I run the New Mexico DNA Project, the issue about
African and Moorish women is this:

Haplogroup L and all sub-haplogroups:  African Black

Haplogroup Ub6: Moorish/Berber (North African) this is
genetic code that is equivalent to E3b on the Y-DNA.

If your haplogroup L your ancient fore-mother was
Black African, if your haplogroup Ub6 your ancient
fore-mother was Moorish/Berber.

Saludos,
Angel 
New Mexico DNA Project
Project Administrator



		
____________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Sports 
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football 
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com

Moorish or Slave





Emilie Garcia wrote:


  So Joseph, you are not really descended from an African slave

I really couldn't say one way or the other. the MtDNA results are my
maternal  (mom's mom's mom's mom's) side and I have no documented
records past my grandmother. . .in fact I didn't know her name until
recently: Antonia Lopez from somewhere in Jalisco.



But on my paternal side going out to some GGGG grandparents some are
identified in baptism records as mestizo, coyote, mulatto, and negro.

, but maybe from someone with Moorish or Arab blood.  The Moors
were the powers in Spain only until shortly before the ancestors of the
current Spaniards had kicked them and the Jews and Arabs out.  A
Spanish friend from the Basque country told me she was proud not to be
"hija de moro ni de indio".  (She can't help it- the Basques are very
proud). 
 
I knew that my father's surname OLAGUE is Basque, because he
told me so.

http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?fid=10&yr=0&ln=Olague


joseph's Y DNA: What do the results mean?





Steve G. Apodaca wrote:

After all this conversation, I got really interested about submitting 
my DNA as well as my Tapia DNA through an uncle. Another member and 
possible primo (Angel Cervantes) encouraged me to do it in the past. 
Well, in the next couple months I will probably get several samples 
from different family lines. (As soon as I get the cash for it)

I just have a question, maybe I just need to read Gary Felix's website 
more carefully. Is there a table or something that explains what do 
all those numbers on the tables mean? Also, what is the difference 
between 12, 25 and 37 marker? What does it mean?

its embarrasing but I don't really understand it all



joseph



ps: have a look at me. . .down to my core.



click on the link that says Understanding your 37 marker results:


"tarayata"

[PDF] .XVND
3XULVXQ9,,,
File Format:
PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View
as HTML


helado” : Tarayata, palabra de origen aymara . Casi no puedo
conciliar el sueño, los recuerdos invaden mi mente. inundándome de
ternura infinita, ...

www.minedu.gob.pe/dinesst/
xtras/revista_kuskapurisun08.pdf -
Similar pages



. . . don't ask me,



joseph





Emilie Garcia wrote:

Well, I guess I will never find out where my father got the word
"tarayata".  He was always laughing when he said it, sort of like
calling us "rascals" when we were rough-housing with him.  He was not
prone to name calling, and being from Mexico, he spoke proper Castilian
as his people had.  My mother, who spoke a strange old 17th century
Spanish dialect from New Mexico (according to my Spanish friend), one
that I no longer hear, was not laughing when she called me "tonta,
suata, surumata, tisica, fea, chirisca, prieta, trige~na" all in one
breath.  I must have been a handful, and I think I am the only
throw-back in the family to our

Name Calling

Well, I guess I will never find out where my father got the word "tarayata".  He was always laughing when he said it, sort of like calling us "rascals" when we were rough-housing with him.  He was not prone to name calling, and being from Mexico, he spoke proper Castilian as his people had.  My mother, who spoke a strange old 17th century Spanish dialect from New Mexico (according to my Spanish friend), one that I no longer hear, was not laughing when she called me "tonta, suata, surumata, tisica, fea, chirisca, prieta, trige~na" all in one breath.  I must have been a handful, and I think I am the only throw-back in the family to our dark-skinned, kinky-haired North African-Moorish ancestors.  I'm surprised I didn't grow up with an inferiority complex due to being made fun of by the "gueros" in the family.  I just used to think they were the stupid ones, the politically incorrect ones that when losing an argument, would voice their prejudices against something I had nothing to do with