TEST SITE - DO NOT USE - Development only

Since I have gotten so many requests for this, and because I think 
most people's email programs will bounce the email if I send it to 
them since the PDF is 4MB, I have posted it in Ranchos2 in the files 
section.

As the file is so large, I imagine that Joseph will eventually have 
to take it down to make space for other items, so please go and 
download/print it when you get a chance.

I found this item at the Library of Congress.  It was written by 
Francisco Manuel de Salcedo Herrera in 1650 and transcribed by a 
priest named Eucario Lopez... who according to the prologue 
transcribed other historic documents from the Archives of the 
Archdiocese of Guadalajara.


--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Carol Turner  wrote:
>
> Please send me a copy of the Tlaltenango.
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!
> 
> --- Arturo Ramos  wrote:
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription
> of a 1650 
> Tlaltenango census this weekend

Hi, Carol! This is interesting. My grandparents never celebrated this either in El Paso and I never heard them or any of my relatives speak of it. But I do remember hearing the phrase occasionally as I was growing up. I do remember when I was a little girl, there being a biiiiiig celebration at Sacred Heart Church with Matachines. I remember being impressed with their wooden soled sandals and the noise they made. Marge



On Oct 31, 2005, at 7:47 AM, Carol Turner wrote:

DIA DE MUERTOS has made a comeback in the last five

years here in Kansas City.  I don't ever remember my

grandparents mentioning this to any of us or how they

celebrated in Mexico.  Mattie Rhodes Art gallery puts

on quite an exhibit with local artists and small

alters in dedication to our ancestors.  They also have

a big party in the street with dancing skeletons and

music, food.  I've heard Chicago puts on a big parade

now.  A few years ago I went to a slide presentation

here at the art gallery.  The

DIA DE MUERTOS has made a comeback in the last five
years here in Kansas City.  I don't ever remember my
grandparents mentioning this to any of us or how they
celebrated in Mexico.  Mattie Rhodes Art gallery puts
on quite an exhibit with local artists and small
alters in dedication to our ancestors.  They also have
a big party in the street with dancing skeletons and
music, food.  I've heard Chicago puts on a big parade
now.  A few years ago I went to a slide presentation
here at the art gallery.  The presenter told me in the
state of Oaxaca they would load up buses of people and
ride out to the cemetery late at night with candles,
flowers, food, some people brought guitars to play
music.  I asked her if she felt anything while in the
cemetery, I was just curious, she said well she wasn't
scared or anything but sensed a presence there but a
good presence.  I'm curious but is DIA DE MUERTOS
celebrated in every state of Mexico differently? We
also celebrate All Saints day which is

A tradition in Mexico is the writing of a CALAVERA for

friends,family, public personalities and politicians.  Calaveras are

meant to be funny, they are not meant as eulogies, but are mild

teasing.  There's usually some sort of rhyme, and they can be

several lines to several stanzas in length.  They can also be poems

of sharp criticism especially towards Los Politicos or Governantes
from
Mexico and U.S.

Here goes one for you Joseph, ojala y te

A tradition in Mexico is the writing of a CALAVERA for 
friends,family, public personalities and politicians.  Calaveras are 
meant to be funny, they are not meant as eulogies, but are mild 
teasing.  There's usually some sort of rhyme, and they can be 
several lines to several stanzas in length.  They can also be poems 
of sharp criticism especially towards Los Politicos or Governantes 
from Mexico and U.S.

Here goes one for you Joseph, ojala y te guste.

             JOSEPH

  ESTABA JOSEPH MUY DE MANANA 
  COMIENDO PAN Y TOMANDO SU ATOLE.
  PLATICABA CON SU AMADA, 
  CON SU "AMORCITO CORAZON"
  SUSPIRABA Y SE QUEJABA 
  DE SUS PARIENTES, YA EN EL PANTEON.
  DONDE ESTARAN?  DONDE SE ENCUENTRAN? 
  A DONDE SE FUERON? QUIEN ME DA CUENTAS?
  Y DE REPENTE, SE ESCUCHA UNA VOZ...
  AQUI ESTOY MI PRIMO, PORQUE ME BUSCABAS?
  PARA QUE SOY BUENO, Y PORQUE ME LLAMABAS.
  AHORA...
  VENGO POR TI, VENGO POR VOS
  VAMONOS JUNTITOS, SOLITOS LOS DOS 
  VAMOS A JALISCO, AGUASCALIENTES Y ZACATECAS

Please send me a copy of the Tlaltenango.

Thanks!!!!!!

--- Arturo Ramos  wrote:


---------------------------------
If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription
of a 1650 
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and
email to whomever 
would like it.  There is not much in terms of names...
only the 
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the
number of 
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there
is some 
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and
economic 
information in it.  The names that are mentioned
include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones
Pedro Lopez
Tomas Gonzalez
Bernave Sanchez
Antonio Miramontes
Francisco Bohorques
Diego Gregorio
Isabel Ruiz

If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to whomever
would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic
information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones
Pedro Lopez
Tomas Gonzalez
Bernave Sanchez
Antonio
Miramontes
Francisco Bohorques
Diego Gregorio
Isabel Ruiz
Cristobal

If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to whomever
would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic
information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones
Pedro Lopez
Tomas Gonzalez
Bernave Sanchez
Antonio
Miramontes
Francisco Bohorques
Diego Gregorio
Isabel Ruiz
Cristobal Cabral
Cri

Arturo,

I would like a copy too.  Thank you.

Maria
--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, "Peggy Delgado"  wrote:
>
> I'd like a copy ....
> email to :
> peggydee@c...
> 
> Thanks a bunch!
> Peggy
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: ranchos@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On 
Behalf Of
> Arturo Ramos
>   Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:43 AM
>   To: ranchos@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [ranchos] Tlaltenango Census
> 
> 
>   If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650
>   Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to 
whomever
>   would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the
>   owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of
>   people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some
>   interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic
>   information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:
> 
>   Antonio de Castro
>   Lorenzo de Miramontes
>   Tomasina de

-----Original Message-----
From: ranchos@...om
[mailto:ranchos@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Arturo
Ramos
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 10:43 AM
To:
ranchos@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ranchos] Tlaltenango
Census

If anybody is interested, I copied the
transcription of a 1650
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and
email to whomever
would like it.  There is not much in terms of
names... only the
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the
number of
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some

interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic

information in it.  The names that are mentioned
include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de
Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de
Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los)
Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis
Felix

 Arturo,

Please send me a copy of the Tlaltenango Census.

Thank You 
Sally

Hi Arturo!

Please, please, please send me a copy. Most of the
names on this list are my wife's.
 
> Lorenzo de Miramontes
> Tomasina de Haro
> Hernando Lamas

> Juan de Miramontes
> Domingo de Lamas
> Martin Tello de Orozaco
 
> Francisco de Luna
> Antonio Miramontes
> Nicolas de Haro
> Tomas Vela
> Lorenzo de Miramontes

and I like to view..
> (los) Munoces (Munoz)

Jose Munoz



--- Arturo Ramos  wrote:

> If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription
> of a 1650 
> Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and
> email to whomever 
> would like it.  There is not much in terms of
> names... only the 
> owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with
> the number of 
> people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but
> there is some 
> interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic
> and economic 
> information in it.  The names that are mentioned
> include:
> 
> Antonio de Castro
> Lorenzo de Miramontes
> Tomasina de Haro
> Hernando Lamas
> Martin

thanks Arturo. . .great idea and where did you find that information? Is
it on a FHL film? or a book? give us the references so we can find it
also. I might be related to Lorenzo de Miramontes. . .not sure though.

joseph

Arturo Ramos wrote:

If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to whomever
would like it. There is not much in terms of names... only the
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic
information in it. The names that are mentioned include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones

Hi Arturo,
I, too, would like a copy of the .pdf.
George
luna@...


Arturo Ramos wrote:

If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to whomever
would like it. There is not much in terms of names... only the
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic
information in it. The names that are mentioned include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones
Pedro Lopez
Tomas Gonzalez
Bernave Sanchez
Antonio Miramontes
Francisco Bohorques
Diego Gregorio
Isabel Ruiz
Cristobal Cabral
Critobal Garcia Roldan
Felipe

I have updated my genealogy files in Ranchos2.  These now include a 
list of surnames and four pedigree charts, one for each of my 
grandparents.

These can be accessed at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ranchos2/files/AAAAA-Genealogies/Arturo%
20Ramos%20%28arturo.ramos2%40verizon.net%29/

If anybody is interested, I copied the transcription of a 1650 
Tlaltenango census this weekend that I can PDF and email to whomever 
would like it.  There is not much in terms of names... only the 
owners of the "estancias" are mentioned along with the number of 
people that inhabit each of the "estancias" but there is some 
interesting geographic, demographic, ethnographic and economic 
information in it.  The names that are mentioned include:

Antonio de Castro
Lorenzo de Miramontes
Tomasina de Haro
Hernando Lamas
Martin Gonzalez
Juan de Miramontes
Domingo de Lamas
Martin Tello de Orozaco
Martin Lopez
(los) Melendes
Francisco de Luna
Pedro de Solis
Antonio de Rivera
Luis Felix Delgado
Mencia (la vuida mulata libre)
Pedro Garcia de Morones
Pedro Lopez
Tomas Gonzalez
Bernave Sanchez
Antonio Miramontes
Francisco Bohorques
Diego Gregorio
Isabel Ruiz
Cristobal Cabral
Critobal Garcia Roldan
Felipe Diaz de Santiago
Nicolas de Haro
Tomas Vela
Martin Gonzalez
Lorenzo de Miramontes
(los)

Arturo, 

  the below "acta de bautismo" of my 4th great JOSE
GABINO RODRIGUES TRISTAN is a example of how mind
boggling an error,like yourself, in documentation may
be misleadingly,,,


Film #0708064 Bautismo record March 07, 1795 San
Geronimo, Moctezuma, San Luis Potosi, Mexico. En la
Yglesia del Pueblo de la Hedeonda, en siete de Marzo
de mil setecientos noventa y sinco, el Br. Dn YGNACIO
MARTINES, como Theniente de Cura, baptiso y puso Los
Santos Oleos a JOSE GABINO RODRIGUES TRISTAN, mestizo,
de Xaquesillos, de 16 diez y seis dias de nacido; hijo
legitimo de JOSE MARIA OLALLO RODRIGUES y MARIA
MATIANA TRISTAN.  fsp: JOSE LUCIANO ROMAN .


HOWEVER!! On Gabino's marriage record the paternal
grandparents are documented as his parents.

Film #0707776 last item p.220. Marriage October 30,
1816, en la Yglesia Parroquial del Real de Nuestra
Senora de Charcas, San Luis Potosi, Mexico. JOSE
GABINO RODRIGUEZ, mestizo, originario de Xaquesillos,
y vecino de la Hacienda de Solis, de estado

Done!

--- In ranchos@yahoogroups.com, Joseph Puentes  wrote:
>
> 
> http://www.rawlins.cnchost.com/igi.html
> 
> would anyone care to make a folder in the links area called "IGI 
> Abbreviations" with this link in it?
> 
> joseph
>

http://www.rawlins.cnchost.com/igi.html

would anyone care to make a folder in the links area called "IGI
Abbreviations" with this link in it?

joseph